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  #31  
Old 10-11-2009, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by redsirenn View Post
Well, I am glad that I got a response form you. And I take everything to heart, with a grain of salt, that is.

I did talk to him the evening I posted that latest response on this forum. He responded kindly. He is not exploring anything with anyone on HIS choice right now too. We have an agreement... something both of us decided we wanted to build trust in each other... So, It is not one sided. When he kissed her, he thought about it for a couple of weeks so that when he talked to me he would know what he wanted more clearly. He is building trust in me as well, and based on our last conversation we are still on the same page. He used the words: How can I go outside of this when my home is not organized.

She is at the beginning of a divorce, and since I have read and agree that other relationships DO affect the relationships already in place, AND having been through one myself, this worries me... Also, there is a child in the picture. The timing seems wrong to both of us.

I am a firm believer that life is not fair, and that NO ONE can place a time frame on how long they are "supposed" to feel insecure, not ready, whatever... 3 weeks is virtually NO time, especially for two people who do not see each other frequently due to work, etc. I also don't want to spend all my time with him talking to him about these issues because I need to remember why I am doing it in the first place - that is ENJOY ourselves when we have time with each other, and not be stressed out all the time. If I am not in the same place he is at whatever point in the future, fine. I don't want to rush things or do something unhealthy (react to the fear of losing him instead of doing this for myself) just because of that. I don't want to lose him, but at least I know that I will be moving at a pace that is constructive to me, and that will LAST with me into another relationship.

I am completely aware of how destructive these feelings of insecurity are... Which is why I bring it up... I recognize it. What I need help with is not recognizing it, but dealing with it. I want to know if anyone has any idea how to do that.

The trip - this trip is all about confronting my fears and such. The worst that could happen if we stop to see the OW is that I will get distracted from the real purpose of this trip. It is NOT about Ouroboros. It is about me and moving past something (lots of things, actually) with him so that I don't carry so much from my past relationship into this one. This is already a HUGE deal for me, and I really want to focus on one psychotic issue of mine at a time. This is how I deal. And - I think it will be very good for us.

I want to do this with him because I want to. That's it. It is not based on fear, on trying to please him, or whatever... I want to do it because I do. Because I know already that I operate emotionally as poly... I have always been in some way or another... The thing that we are BOTH realizing is that Theory and practice are 2 different things. We like doing this together because we learn from each other and support each other even when we act irrational.

Does that clear anything up?
Answer last question first-YES IT DOES! THANK YOU!
I know it's a pain when someone knew (like me) pops on wants to participate and doesn't know what the heck the situation is. It occurred to me JUST now I might have gone to look at the personal summaries and seen if yours was there. I didn't. I apologize. I am ADD. I am working on getting it more functional but haven't gotten used to checking the personal summaries yet!
Now-to what you have said:

Her being in the middle of a divorce screeches bad timing to me (course my whole marriage was built on bad-timing so who am I to talk). It seems like it would be MUCH better ESPECIALLY if she has a child. There is even more risk-because if her ex finds out she's doing the poly thing-that could be used against her in court. So it seems like all the way around the TRULY loving thiing to do would be to back off some.

I think your trip is a good idea. I keep thinking "why can't they both see the friends AND both have dinner with this woman (and possibly child)". It seems reasonable to me for him to want to "check in" but it also seems VERY IMPORTANT to the possibility of a future for it to be done in a way that PROMOTES the agreement the two of you have made, helps you to face your insecurity (in regards to her) by having a small, safe and controlled setting (dinner at a nice restaurant would be perfect) where small talk was possible, but it's not likely to escalate to sexually suggestive situation that could be too far.

I agree 3 weeks is SHORT time. But I think what clicked for me is that in any given week-a step should be made that progresses the issue... in any issue-not just insecurity or jealousy. For example, our communication counseling-each week we address an issue on Friday. Then we talk it over through the weekend. During the week we do our "homework assignment" for working on the issue (like empathetic responses in our case) and usually on Wednesday we go out the two of us and bring up what we KNOW to be a difficult topic and try to use the steps to work through the topic to a resolution. Then on that Friday we go back to the meeting, discuss how it worked (so far excellent every week) what progress we made and what the next step is.

In terms of jealousy and insecurity-are you going to be secure after 3 weeks? Probably not. But I guess my question is-are you actively pursuing it? One thing that can't be done-is you can't be more secure with THEIR relationship if you and he avoid it altogether.
But that doesn't mean he needs to sleep with her in your bed! AS if.
Maca and I are dealing with HIS insecurities. Right now he's just starting out (we're in week 3 to be exact!) and the first week after we talked and I told him I wasn't able to do the mono thing any longer and was from here on identifying myself as his wife and C's girlfriend-I devoted 90% or more of my time to Maca. I verbally asked C "you doing ok" and he said "yes ma'am he needs you right now". That was the whole of C and I's intimacy.
Week two we all sat on the couch together and talked lightly about the kids, our family life stuff that wasn't HEATED or HEAVY. One of those days I held C's hand. It fired up Maca's insecurities and I (and C) reassured him-no he is NOT being replaced and yes he's special to me and preciously important in our family etc.
Week 3-they go out to dinner and talk SERIOUSLY about the intricacies of the past (it's a disaster) and make some peace with past mistakes and work out some terms for now in the situation between the two of them.
Two days later the three of us go out for drinks, dancing and just had a good time. I kissed C on the cheek and flirted LIGHTLY with him (nothing I wouldn't do even with my family) and dirty danced with Maca and some girls while C took pics.
Maca felt loved, respected by us both and more confident.
Slowly but surely he's facing things and seeing that he's NOT "at risk" of any of the things he feared.

So at week three have we "solved it"? Heck now. But we're making wonderful strides, so we aren't still at that same spot where it's "That makes me insecure so it needs to stop."

Does that make better sense at all??

Very true about theory/practice!! Very different. We're getting a lot of laughs out of how many things are easier that we thought would be hard. But of course some things are harder.
Example in next post!
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  #32  
Old 10-11-2009, 09:58 PM
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The other night, C was taking our daughter to bed (she's 2). She needed hugs and kisses from dad and mom (she's a total daddy's girl). So he knocked on our door. We'd just gotten out of the shower and I was still naked. Maca opened the door, gave baby a kiss and baby wanted one from me.
I had sidestepped out of sight when he opened the door.

Now I could be a nudist-but no one but me and baby are like that in this family of 9 so I was respecting that.

Maca USUALLY would have taken baby and brought her to me OR if I was in bed under the covers C would have come over so she could kiss me goodnight.
But Maca said "your daughter wants a kiss goodnight and walked to the other side of the room". .
I was caught off guard as was C (which we all found out later) and I didn't know what he was expecting. I thought "huh maybe this is a test he's giving himself".
But I wasn't REALLYcomfortable just going out naked to kiss her with C there. May sound dumb-because certainly I'm comfortable being naked with C and I'm comfortable being naked with Maca AND I'm comfortable being naked with baby. BUT altogether? That hasn't EVER happened. I leaned over-but still tried to keep somewhat "Hidden" by the wall and actually covered my breasts (very large, quite a chore) with my arms kissed her and moved back to hiding-very awkward.

Later Maca tells me he felt like he had to let me do that or something and he didn't like it.
I felt so bad for him-because somehow he was thinking I wanted it that way-or C did. But really NONE of us did! How silly of us-we're doing so well communicating-but in the heat of the moment we had a hell of a misunderstanding!

Fortunately it all broke down to "uh yeah, no we're not ANY OF US comfortable" changing THAT dynamic in the home. So we aren't going to!

But I do get what you are saying about how the DOING of poly is a bit different than the theory of it!!!
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  #33  
Old 10-11-2009, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by violet View Post

I would say again, read through the Poly FAQ I linked before. There are some AMAZING articles that tell you how to handle your feelings step-by-step. And they say it far better than I ever could. I can honestly say that that FAQ did more for my mindset in a week than MONTHS of "open communication" with my partners and soul searching ever could have done.
US TOO!!! Very helpful and insightful. One of the great things we found were words to express what we were thinking/feeling/needing/wanting where we lacked them previously. Also it helped us figure out where to start in trying to talk about some of the technicalities of what was going on. Sometimes one of us knew we needed to talk, but how to start the topic we couldn't figure out!
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:43 PM
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hey there.

I looked at those webpages months ago, and just did again. You are right, they do phrase my own thoughts in a way that is clear enough to get across.

Thanks for the help.

RS
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  #35  
Old 10-12-2009, 08:03 PM
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Those webpages are AMAZINGLY helpful. Helped me to do the same - get my thoughts across clearly. A great resource.

Glad they helped - wishing you all the best for the future!
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  #36  
Old 10-12-2009, 11:51 PM
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Franklin's trying to get a book published actually. I seriously hope he does because his stuff is so useful and practical. So much moreso than other stuff out there.
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  #37  
Old 10-13-2009, 03:40 AM
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That is wonderful! I know they sure helped us with putting our thoughts clearer too!
It's so nice when resources WORK!
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  #38  
Old 10-13-2009, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by redsirenn View Post
I am a firm believer that life is not fair, and that NO ONE can place a time frame on how long they are "supposed" to feel insecure, not ready, whatever... 3 weeks is virtually NO time, especially for two people who do not see each other frequently due to work, etc.
I agree that 3 weeks is perhaps a short time to expect to "get over" emotions. Especially when they are around something that cannot change. You can't change that O broke his agreement with you so those emotions may linger.

I do think that at a certain point it is worth addressing why you are holding on to those emotions however... or why anyone holds on to emotions. Sometimes they get stuck there and just pushed aside instead of dealt with. They get sucked up, swept under the carpet and all but forgotten, until another situation comes up whereby they are dredged up again and have more power because they are added to the new situation. (really I'm just saying this as an over all observation, rather than directly about your posts)

I would wonder if it wouldn't be in your best interest to look head on at this woman and take the bull by the horns and just go there on your trip. I know it's about you and your "baggage" left in Seattle, also about gaining trust between the two of you, but there is nothing that says trust building and getting rid of baggage than dealing with everything all at once and seeing once and for all what your relationship is made of.

I get this over all feeling that your relationship is built on sand and the illusion of something solid. I sense some shaky fear in your posts and wonder if you need to challenge yourself and him bit more rather than taking these tiny steps towards the prospect of a future.
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  #39  
Old 10-13-2009, 06:30 AM
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I also really don't mean to come across negatively, Red, but DAMN girl! You need to fucking check yourself!

I could rant off for HOURS about exactly what about your posts just flat scared me, the parts that made me shake my head, the parts that resonated with me, and the overall tone that just made me want to slap some sense into you. I have seen relationships that were strong in every other way destroyed by the mindset you have. And I mean DESTROYED. That mindset, whether the girl or the guy has it, *WILL* create resentment, anger, and sometimes (like in HMA's case) flat hatred.

There's a couple of articles I want you to read. If you don't mind the suggestion.

The Theory of Jealousy Management
The Actual Practice of Jealousy Management

Even if the idea of being called "jealous" offends you, READ THESE ARTICLES. And turn a VERY critical eye on yourself. I can pick out, just from your posts, several of the mistakes you've made that are dealt with in these articles.

You posted more about your feelings than his, so I'm only guiding you - but if I knew more about him, rest assured I'd be calling his ass out if he deserved it too.

I would LOVE to hear of your relationship succeeding. But with the way things are going, it won't. Maybe it will succeed for a few years! Just like HMA - 5 years in, he still was "trying". He got fed up and fast when "something better" came along. EVERYTHING his ex was trying to prevent, she facilitated in her actions. You are doing the same thing.

Read through those articles, and sit your boyfriend down and read the ENTIRE FAQ with him. It's a fucking awesome place to start.

Polyamory FAQ

I wish you the best of luck, and feel free to PM me if you need someone to talk to.
I dunno, a few, "in my opinions," "maybe you shoulds," "I suggests," "perhaps you are doing this es," and "I have found this to be helpfuls," and I wouldn't find this offensive either.

I love the passion, just wish there was less self righteousness and more non-violvent communication in it.

Go violet you're a woman after my own heart. I can see we are made of similar cloth and "perhaps" (LOL) have similar communication styles to work on sometimes?
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