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  #31  
Old 06-18-2011, 03:09 PM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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All I can say is that for me this is mostly a theoretical issue for discussion. I am open to exploring how polyamory would work in practice, but I've never had multiple sexual partners at the same time. From the responses I'm getting to things I say, it's as if I've triggered some primordial defensiveness regarding privacy rights. If the topic is as sensitive as it seems, it tells me that there are some deep-seated fears about what could happen if you were expected to openly field questions about your sex lives. Personally, I don't like it when people interrogate me about things I don't want to talk about either, and that's not just limited to sex. However, I can still reflect on the fact that the reasons I am sensitive about being asked about certain things is because of how I think the information could be used to harass me in some way or otherwise manipulate me.

With sex, I think it is a shame that people feel like they can't talk about what they feel or do with other people with those they love. A big part of the joy of intimacy, imo, is being able to talk about things you wouldn't talk about with just anyone. It's nice to be able to open up and this thread is almost making it sound like people are having to sacrifice intimacy/openness with one partner to be able to have sex with another. Whether or not that's legitimate, it's still a sacrifice of sorts isn't it?
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  #32  
Old 06-18-2011, 03:11 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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You are reading to much into our defense of the right for privacy and discretion. Don't over think out defense. Take it at face value.

We all treasure open and honest communication (allowing for human mistakes in communication) but we also all accept that there needs to be privacy.

That's all.. That's it.. Nothing more.. Nothing less..
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  #33  
Old 06-18-2011, 03:46 PM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
You are reading to much into our defense of the right for privacy and discretion. Don't over think out defense. Take it at face value.

We all treasure open and honest communication (allowing for human mistakes in communication) but we also all accept that there needs to be privacy.

That's all.. That's it.. Nothing more.. Nothing less..
Well, I guess you could read more into my questioning of privacy because imo secrecy and shame are byproducts of culture that equates open sharing with danger. When I am in a relationship, I like the feeling of being able to talk about past experiences even if they took place in other "private" relationships. I think I would want the same freedom with multiple partners at the same time. I would feel repressed and used if my partners expected me to protect their secrets from each other. If they had other partners, I would expect them to talk about whatever they wanted regarding me provided that their partner respected me enough to not exploit their position of receiving privileged information. Really what this comes down to is that it is better not to put others in the position of keeping secrets for you. If you don't want something disclosed, better to keep it to yourself I think. That doesn't mean that there are no ethics to the way people respond to information they receive. E.g. I don't think Tiger Woods' prostitutes or Arnold Schwartzeneger's mistress should have been burdened with permanently keeping their relationships a secret, but then I also don't think it's legitimate the way the media and the public treat the information when they get it. The problem is you can't control other people, even when they're abusive, and there is a lot of harassment, bullying, shunning, etc. that goes on regarding sexuality and many people don't even consider themselves as doing anything wrong by abusing people in this way.

Last edited by serialmonogamist; 06-18-2011 at 03:49 PM.
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  #34  
Old 06-18-2011, 08:04 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Originally Posted by serialmonogamist View Post
Well, I guess you could read more into my questioning of privacy because imo secrecy and shame are byproducts of culture that equates open sharing with danger.
Once again you're assuming shame is part of the equation. Once again I will point out that it is not and that you'll never understand our position if you insist on that assumption.

It's quite simple: if you and I are involved with the same woman, what she and I do sexually is none of your business. I am *not* choosing to share that intimacy with you simply because you are also involved with her.

Should you ask for any such details, you are attempting to coerce intimacy with me that I don't choose to offer.

Should she speak of such details without my consent, then she is violating my trust and forcing an intimacy on me that I don't wish to share.

I guarantee it's a self-limiting process, for once I find out about such a thing, there would be no further intimacies to worry about.

In short: *I* get to decide with whom I'm intimate. Not her and not you. Anybody who can't understand that isn't ready for a relationship, as far as I'm concerned.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #35  
Old 06-18-2011, 09:21 PM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
Once again you're assuming shame is part of the equation. Once again I will point out that it is not and that you'll never understand our position if you insist on that assumption.

It's quite simple: if you and I are involved with the same woman, what she and I do sexually is none of your business. I am *not* choosing to share that intimacy with you simply because you are also involved with her.

Should you ask for any such details, you are attempting to coerce intimacy with me that I don't choose to offer.

Should she speak of such details without my consent, then she is violating my trust and forcing an intimacy on me that I don't wish to share.

I guarantee it's a self-limiting process, for once I find out about such a thing, there would be no further intimacies to worry about.

In short: *I* get to decide with whom I'm intimate. Not her and not you. Anybody who can't understand that isn't ready for a relationship, as far as I'm concerned.
It doesn't have to do with coercing intimacy out of anyone. It has to do with people controlling information with people other than you. What you're basically saying is that someone is required to keep what they do with you a secret from other people. Obviously it would be nice if people cared enough about each other to either not gossip or not react to gossip, but few people are that mature in my experience. That's why I brought up the high-profile examples like Tiger Woods and Arnold Schwartzeneger. Both of these cases involved people who kept their relationships with these men secret/private at first but later decided to disclose them for money and/or other reasons.

A personal relationship isn't really much different. A person who is deeply in love with you might not want to disclose information about you to other friends but when they get annoyed with you for some reason, they might just go ahead and gossip about you. I see people talking/gossiping about each other all the time, presumably without a thought regarding the ethics of disclosing others' information. I think if you told them they weren't allowed to talk about people without their permission, they would take it as you trying to control them unfairly. I'm not saying they're right but I think they have the power in the situation since no one can really STOP them from talking about whatever they know. If you want to restrict your relationships with people you trust, it can be really hard. Just ask Tiger and Arnold.
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  #36  
Old 06-18-2011, 11:45 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Eh, I am with Cindie here, and so is my gf. None of our other lovers have ever asked for us to keep sexual details a secret either. I guess we're all loosey goosey here and getting off on each others' escapades all around. *shrug* Maybe it's a New York thing. We talk a lot.
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  #37  
Old 06-19-2011, 12:31 AM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Eh, I am with Cindie here, and so is my gf. None of our other lovers have ever asked for us to keep sexual details a secret either. I guess we're all loosey goosey here and getting off on each others' escapades all around. *shrug* Maybe it's a New York thing. We talk a lot.
Of course we aren't specifically talking about this kind of freedom when all involved want it.

This is specifically to when the metamour doesn't want that kind of information shared.

At what point do you start disrepespecting the other person and start removing the other persons right to discretion.

My wife and I are open about what we do.. Very.. So I am not opposed to the idea. Bt I also believe in respect..I am far from perfect but I try to uphold the wishes of my partner involved.
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  #38  
Old 06-19-2011, 12:40 AM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmonogamist View Post
A personal relationship isn't really much different. A person who is deeply in love with you might not want to disclose information about you to other friends but when they get annoyed with you for some reason, they might just go ahead and gossip about you. I see people talking/gossiping about each other all the time, presumably without a thought regarding the ethics of disclosing others' information. I think if you told them they weren't allowed to talk about people without their permission, they would take it as you trying to control them unfairly. I'm not saying they're right but I think they have the power in the situation since no one can really STOP them from talking about whatever they know. If you want to restrict your relationships with people you trust, it can be really hard. Just ask Tiger and Arnold.
You are 100% right on the money there. Its been my experience, that the very same people screaming for privacy, actually mean secrecy. They want the ability to keep hush about what suits them, and the ability to whine and gossip about what doesn`t.
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  #39  
Old 06-19-2011, 02:59 AM
serialmonogamist serialmonogamist is offline
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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
You are 100% right on the money there. Its been my experience, that the very same people screaming for privacy, actually mean secrecy. They want the ability to keep hush about what suits them, and the ability to whine and gossip about what doesn`t.
I don't think there's enough discussion about the social-politics of secrecy, shame, and fear. I think people are afraid of what they imagine could happen as a result of their secrets being made public and that results in repressive avoidance of openness. Of course you want to respect people who are sensitive to information-disclosure, but where does that leave you in questioning why there's a need for secrecy in the first place?
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  #40  
Old 06-19-2011, 03:39 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmonogamist View Post
I don't think there's enough discussion about the social-politics of secrecy, shame, and fear.
Once again, the assumption that there's shame and fear involved. That's really pathetic.

Your constant pushing of your agenda makes any substantial discussion with you impossible, as there's obviously no place for anybody else's experience and understanding in your world. It would make things so much easier if you'd just state your agenda up front so folks can then know to not bother trying to have a reasonable discussion.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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