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  #21  
Old 10-09-2009, 06:04 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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It is like I was waiting for something to go wrong so that my insecurities would be justified.
That is the scariest thing I've read in a long time. I dated a woman like that for almost 5 years. I still love her - but cannot faathom ever being with her again. Once free of that relationship, I realized how much I had grown to hate her, and how much she had caused me to hate myself. FIX THIS. If not for your current relationships sake, than for every other person you will ever be with.

There were other things said by you and others tht I wanted to quote and comment on After [osting that last bit, I can't even think of them. I cannot express the importance there.

LovingRadience is correct - you are overstructuring the situation and trying to control it. This relates to the above statement, and is biulding slow, steady, and incredibly strong resentment in your man. The kind that gets heated slowly over time to a white hot glow as you constrict and make him feel like he's unworthy for being himself, forged into a blade when you argue with him about things he wishes he'd never agreed to, quenched in icewater when one day you start a real good fight about something he feels justified for in the face of your long term unreasonableness, and sharpened to a keen edge capable of splitting the finest hairs when he finds he must resort to that in order to find any breating room in your structure. And one day there will be an incident - the one that breaks the camels back, be it big or small. And you will find that that blade is VERY strong, and VERY sharp, and that in the face of everyting he will not hesitate to weild it.

Been there, done that. Sorry my post feels as though it attacks you Redsirenn, but I bet I could step into your relationship and tell you what you're going to say before you say it in any argument the two of you have ever had - and I know what that relationship did to both of us, and you need to prevent that.
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  #22  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:24 PM
violet violet is offline
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I also really don't mean to come across negatively, Red, but DAMN girl! You need to fucking check yourself!

I could rant off for HOURS about exactly what about your posts just flat scared me, the parts that made me shake my head, the parts that resonated with me, and the overall tone that just made me want to slap some sense into you. I have seen relationships that were strong in every other way destroyed by the mindset you have. And I mean DESTROYED. That mindset, whether the girl or the guy has it, *WILL* create resentment, anger, and sometimes (like in HMA's case) flat hatred.

There's a couple of articles I want you to read. If you don't mind the suggestion.

The Theory of Jealousy Management
The Actual Practice of Jealousy Management

Even if the idea of being called "jealous" offends you, READ THESE ARTICLES. And turn a VERY critical eye on yourself. I can pick out, just from your posts, several of the mistakes you've made that are dealt with in these articles.

You posted more about your feelings than his, so I'm only guiding you - but if I knew more about him, rest assured I'd be calling his ass out if he deserved it too.

I would LOVE to hear of your relationship succeeding. But with the way things are going, it won't. Maybe it will succeed for a few years! Just like HMA - 5 years in, he still was "trying". He got fed up and fast when "something better" came along. EVERYTHING his ex was trying to prevent, she facilitated in her actions. You are doing the same thing.

Read through those articles, and sit your boyfriend down and read the ENTIRE FAQ with him. It's a fucking awesome place to start.

Polyamory FAQ

I wish you the best of luck, and feel free to PM me if you need someone to talk to.
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  #23  
Old 10-09-2009, 08:25 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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Wow babe - maybe tone it down a bit?
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  #24  
Old 10-09-2009, 08:54 PM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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Originally Posted by violet View Post
I also really don't mean to come across negatively, Red, but DAMN . . .!
Coming across negatively is exactly what you did, Violet.

I get it that you feel very strongly about this, especially given HMA's history, but Redsirenn came here for help, and is trying to be honest and open about some very sensitive issues she's trying to work through. I think deserves she respect and compassion for being brave enough, and strong enough to put it out there in the first place. Attacking her isn't likely to be productive or helpful.

Perhaps redsirenn isn't the only girl here who needs to check herself.
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  #25  
Old 10-09-2009, 09:08 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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For the record, her reaction was certainly augmented by her knowledge of my history - but that had very little to do with it, or rather the part of my history that she was involved with where these issues come into play is an example of her reasoning, not the cause of it. Cler as mud, I'm sure.

Sum it up - there are certain destructive behaviors in relationships that Violet feels very strongly about, and in Red's posts she exhibited just about every one of them. I've been outside talking to her about it. I kinda regret telling her to read this thread, lol.
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  #26  
Old 10-09-2009, 09:42 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Redsirenn, there's one thing I've been wondering actually and might help shed some light on where you might want to head from here. I went searching back to see if I was missing the answer, but I can't find the answer to one very important question.

Why did you want to explore opening up your relationship with him in the first place?

(oh yeah, and I highly recommend ANY of Franklin's writings on relationships on his xeromag site for poly people or mono people. He's a good friend of mine )

Last edited by Ceoli; 10-09-2009 at 09:44 PM.
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  #27  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:15 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidelia View Post
Coming across negatively is exactly what you did, Violet.

I get it that you feel very strongly about this, especially given HMA's history, but Redsirenn came here for help, and is trying to be honest and open about some very sensitive issues she's trying to work through. I think deserves she respect and compassion for being brave enough, and strong enough to put it out there in the first place. Attacking her isn't likely to be productive or helpful.

Perhaps redsirenn isn't the only girl here who needs to check herself.

I didn't think she came across as "attacking". Negative, maybe, but in a good way. It's a good thing to not sugar-coat this kind of advice. If I had advice to offer, I'd probably do it in a similar fashion, especially if I'd had first-hand experience and was trying to help someone else not make the same mistakes that I made.
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  #28  
Old 10-10-2009, 03:41 PM
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redsirenn redsirenn is offline
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Default ok. wow.

Well, I am glad that I got a response form you. And I take everything to heart, with a grain of salt, that is.

I did talk to him the evening I posted that latest response on this forum. He responded kindly. He is not exploring anything with anyone on HIS choice right now too. We have an agreement... something both of us decided we wanted to build trust in each other... So, It is not one sided. When he kissed her, he thought about it for a couple of weeks so that when he talked to me he would know what he wanted more clearly. He is building trust in me as well, and based on our last conversation we are still on the same page. He used the words: How can I go outside of this when my home is not organized.

She is at the beginning of a divorce, and since I have read and agree that other relationships DO affect the relationships already in place, AND having been through one myself, this worries me... Also, there is a child in the picture. The timing seems wrong to both of us.

I am a firm believer that life is not fair, and that NO ONE can place a time frame on how long they are "supposed" to feel insecure, not ready, whatever... 3 weeks is virtually NO time, especially for two people who do not see each other frequently due to work, etc. I also don't want to spend all my time with him talking to him about these issues because I need to remember why I am doing it in the first place - that is ENJOY ourselves when we have time with each other, and not be stressed out all the time. If I am not in the same place he is at whatever point in the future, fine. I don't want to rush things or do something unhealthy (react to the fear of losing him instead of doing this for myself) just because of that. I don't want to lose him, but at least I know that I will be moving at a pace that is constructive to me, and that will LAST with me into another relationship.

I am completely aware of how destructive these feelings of insecurity are... Which is why I bring it up... I recognize it. What I need help with is not recognizing it, but dealing with it. I want to know if anyone has any idea how to do that.

The trip - this trip is all about confronting my fears and such. The worst that could happen if we stop to see the OW is that I will get distracted from the real purpose of this trip. It is NOT about Ouroboros. It is about me and moving past something (lots of things, actually) with him so that I don't carry so much from my past relationship into this one. This is already a HUGE deal for me, and I really want to focus on one psychotic issue of mine at a time. This is how I deal. And - I think it will be very good for us.

I want to do this with him because I want to. That's it. It is not based on fear, on trying to please him, or whatever... I want to do it because I do. Because I know already that I operate emotionally as poly... I have always been in some way or another... The thing that we are BOTH realizing is that Theory and practice are 2 different things. We like doing this together because we learn from each other and support each other even when we act irrational.

Does that clear anything up?
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  #29  
Old 10-10-2009, 03:50 PM
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redsirenn redsirenn is offline
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p.s.
Reading these posts, some of them could not be more off. AND for the record, I can read into how past relationships gone wrong have affected the reactions to mine.

Now, I understand where you are coming from... and thanks for the 'check'...

Also, we never argue. We talk and have excellent communication between each other.

Every relationship is different... and I am sorry that I don't post all the positives on here more often.
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  #30  
Old 10-11-2009, 12:57 AM
violet violet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
I didn't think she came across as "attacking". Negative, maybe, but in a good way. It's a good thing to not sugar-coat this kind of advice. If I had advice to offer, I'd probably do it in a similar fashion, especially if I'd had first-hand experience and was trying to help someone else not make the same mistakes that I made.
Thanks for that, YGirl. I don't mean to come across as attacking, but if I do, I generally don't care. Advice - especially about something like this, shouldn't be sugarcoated. Sometimes, realities are harsh. Having been there and done that - both seeing HMA go through it, BEING the one acting that way, and being in a relationship where my partner acted that way, I can't sit by and sugar-bunnies-rainbow my way through it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redsirenn View Post
Well, I am glad that I got a response form you. And I take everything to heart, with a grain of salt, that is.

I did talk to him the evening I posted that latest response on this forum. He responded kindly. He is not exploring anything with anyone on HIS choice right now too. We have an agreement... something both of us decided we wanted to build trust in each other... So, It is not one sided. When he kissed her, he thought about it for a couple of weeks so that when he talked to me he would know what he wanted more clearly. He is building trust in me as well, and based on our last conversation we are still on the same page. He used the words: How can I go outside of this when my home is not organized.

She is at the beginning of a divorce, and since I have read and agree that other relationships DO affect the relationships already in place, AND having been through one myself, this worries me... Also, there is a child in the picture. The timing seems wrong to both of us.

I am a firm believer that life is not fair, and that NO ONE can place a time frame on how long they are "supposed" to feel insecure, not ready, whatever... 3 weeks is virtually NO time, especially for two people who do not see each other frequently due to work, etc. I also don't want to spend all my time with him talking to him about these issues because I need to remember why I am doing it in the first place - that is ENJOY ourselves when we have time with each other, and not be stressed out all the time. If I am not in the same place he is at whatever point in the future, fine. I don't want to rush things or do something unhealthy (react to the fear of losing him instead of doing this for myself) just because of that. I don't want to lose him, but at least I know that I will be moving at a pace that is constructive to me, and that will LAST with me into another relationship.

I am completely aware of how destructive these feelings of insecurity are... Which is why I bring it up... I recognize it. What I need help with is not recognizing it, but dealing with it. I want to know if anyone has any idea how to do that.

The trip - this trip is all about confronting my fears and such. The worst that could happen if we stop to see the OW is that I will get distracted from the real purpose of this trip. It is NOT about Ouroboros. It is about me and moving past something (lots of things, actually) with him so that I don't carry so much from my past relationship into this one. This is already a HUGE deal for me, and I really want to focus on one psychotic issue of mine at a time. This is how I deal. And - I think it will be very good for us.

I want to do this with him because I want to. That's it. It is not based on fear, on trying to please him, or whatever... I want to do it because I do. Because I know already that I operate emotionally as poly... I have always been in some way or another... The thing that we are BOTH realizing is that Theory and practice are 2 different things. We like doing this together because we learn from each other and support each other even when we act irrational.

Does that clear anything up?
Ahh, actually it clears a lot up. It can be hard to get what you mean across to someone - in person, or even harder on a forum. What you've brought up is something else I can offer advice on. I've been there too.

If you look back through the posts HMA and I have made, it's made pretty clear how uncomfortable I was with how fast our relationship with Anne moved. I went from being happy, secure, and rational to COMPLETELY depressed, insecure, possessive, and running entirely on emotions. I started reading into things they both did, I started actively monopolizing the time that HMA had with Anne... we had several conversations about whether or not we should continue to pursue the relationship with Anne or not. There were even some feelings tossed around, mostly by me, on if I wanted to maintain a relationship with HMA! Our whole world went upside down.

HMA and I never argued until Anne came around. We were great at communicating ... until Anne came around. I never read into things, I was always able to stay calm in the face of strong emotion, I was always able to be tolerant, understanding, and considerate of people's feelings - until Anne came around!

It got bad, and fast. It took several drag-down knock-out arguments, several "checks" and come-to-Jesus moments for me to pull my head out of my ass. I wound up right where you are - recognizing what was going on, recognizing my insecurities and emotions for what they were - but being at a loss as to how to deal with them.

I will say the thing that made the greatest difference was getting to know Anne. I mean on a friendship level - the romance came later with us, and IIRC you aren't in a triad. But most of what poly relationships are about, it seems to me, is a SHIT TON of sacrifice. I sacrificed my comfort level to help strengthen their (HMA and Anne's) relationship at first. I sacrificed sleep. I sacrificed time with HMA. It was fucking HARD.

I would say again, read through the Poly FAQ I linked before. There are some AMAZING articles that tell you how to handle your feelings step-by-step. And they say it far better than I ever could. I can honestly say that that FAQ did more for my mindset in a week than MONTHS of "open communication" with my partners and soul searching ever could have done.

I truly wish you all the best.
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