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  #21  
Old 06-10-2011, 06:43 AM
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OK, no more snooping but it is interesting that all you guys who are so against it are very poly.

Changing boundaries are a very difficult thing to manage and I do feel a great deal of empathy for overthinker. I "innocently" found a lot of very romantic texts when Z gave me an old phone of his while i was between phones. It was devastating to see him saying exactly the same things to J that he texts to me, when I didn't realise their relationship had moved to this level. And stupid things like him telling her he couldn't wait to kiss off her lipstick, while he will never kiss me with lipstick on.

On the other side of the channel guys can find communicating boundary changes that they find subtle and we find huge, really hard.

We solved the problem by him telling me lots about his other relationships.He enjoys it so it isn't a problem and he would expect the same of me because I am expanding my life in many directions at the moment and for the first time in our relationship he is getting a bit insecure.

It sounds to me as if in Overthinker's quad relationship her husband and his girlfriend are more into each other than Overthinker and her boyfriend? I'm
sure this happens a lot and is difficult. There are other quads on this board I think, you should get some advice from them.

Best of luck
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  #22  
Old 06-10-2011, 12:26 PM
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TL4everu2 TL4everu2 is offline
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I think that some of us are getting onto the wrong person's case here.

While overthinker may have been in the "wrong" for snooping....It STILL doesn't eclipse the fact that her hubby crossed that boundary. He was MORE "in the wrong" in the first place than her IMO, and he needs to be aware that it has hurt her, and that if there are certain boundaries, they need to be adhered to by both parties. He has instilled a lack of trust in Overthinker, now, that wasn't there before. This mistrust, will only serve to foster MORE jealousy unless it is dealt with.
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  #23  
Old 06-10-2011, 12:37 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TL4everu2 View Post
I think that some of us are getting onto the wrong person's case here.

While overthinker may have been in the "wrong" for snooping....It STILL doesn't eclipse the fact that her hubby crossed that boundary. He was MORE "in the wrong" in the first place than her IMO, and he needs to be aware that it has hurt her, and that if there are certain boundaries, they need to be adhered to by both parties. He has instilled a lack of trust in Overthinker, now, that wasn't there before. This mistrust, will only serve to foster MORE jealousy unless it is dealt with.
Actually, they both broke boundaries, so they're both wrong and both need to do some renegotiation and fixing to build trust back. Hubby just doesn't know any boundaries have been broken (other than the ones he broke).

I don't think there is a more wrong in this case. Both are just wrong, and have been addressed as such by members.
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  #24  
Old 06-10-2011, 12:46 PM
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Well said TL4everu2, I'd rather be a snooper than a liar. I had to write my last post on this thread in a hurry and after I'd pushed send I thought "hey wait a minute".

I can let my snoopy behaviour go now because Z has been very trustworthy for the past 5 months. But prior to that he did stuff up reasonably regularly and it does eat away at the trust. There is an element of self-preservation in snooping.
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  #25  
Old 06-10-2011, 01:02 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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I throw my 2 cents in with "I'd rather be a snooper than a liar". This is not a mono vs. poly issue. Plenty of times I have either been or seen a situation where one person does something, another person busts them by "snooping", and suddenly it's all the person who snooped's fault because they "invaded privacy". If you use "privacy" as an excuse to be dishonest, then expect to reap what you sow.
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  #26  
Old 06-10-2011, 02:26 PM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonKaos View Post
I throw my 2 cents in with "I'd rather be a snooper than a liar". This is not a mono vs. poly issue. Plenty of times I have either been or seen a situation where one person does something, another person busts them by "snooping", and suddenly it's all the person who snooped's fault because they "invaded privacy". If you use "privacy" as an excuse to be dishonest, then expect to reap what you sow.
..`Zactly.

I am a very private person, still, if I thought those around me 'snooped', I`d (and have in the past) tend to show all my cards, and wonder more about how I am presenting myself, that they doubted me.
I`d rather fix the doubt.
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  #27  
Old 06-10-2011, 02:33 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by SourGirl View Post
..`Zactly.

I am a very private person, still, if I thought those around me 'snooped', I`d (and have in the past) tend to show all my cards, and wonder more about how I am presenting myself, that they doubted me.
I`d rather fix the doubt.
And of course, they'd owe you an apology. But you'd accept their apology, and life would continue.
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  #28  
Old 06-10-2011, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by NeonKaos View Post
And of course, they'd owe you an apology. But you'd accept their apology, and life would continue.
Yep. That`s how it`s gone. We survived the faux-pas.

Now if someone were hostile, (thats happened) and malicious in their snooping and accusations, they can go fuck their self, until a better attitude prevails.

But Basic human worry, and fear ?,.....I guess I`d rather solve the doubt, then get all up in my tighty-whities about privacy breach.

This convo is rather interesting, .....
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  #29  
Old 06-10-2011, 03:12 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Originally Posted by Overthinker View Post
........
I know I shouldn't snoop but I did and I can't take it back. There have been several triggers over the past couple months that make me think that he and his gf haven't been following some boundaries and I have found some of my suspicions to be true. Simple things such as she calling my husband while she was on vacation out of state with her husband and family even though her husband specifically asked her not too.
Hi there Overthinker,

Seems I'm a bit late coming to this thread but I'd like to toss out another opinion FWIW.

I hope this doesn't come across wrong - or that I can word it to be received in the spirit it's meant.

I smell something funny !

Although you've posted that your relationship is the best it's been in ages - things of that nature etc - I'm going to cry BS !

From what I can pick up from your writing, it would appear that your relationship is only maintaining a very delicate balance. It seems there's misunderstandings, lack of clarity and lack of trust on both your parts. To me, it seems you both have a LONG way to go before this lovestyle flows naturally for you both.
If my suspicions are right - I'd just admit it ! Then you can really decide how to proceed going forward. As it stands right now it may take only one minor event to tip the whole thing over. You allude to as much yourself in a round-about way.

This is one of the things we've discussed at length here about the concept of "rules & boundaries" and why many people don't even want to hear about them (beyond the big, common sense ones regarding safety etc). If you need all kinds of boundaries to protect fragile egos and personalities you probably need to drop relationships and work on the foundational (personal) stuff first. Trying to do both or one before the other is a high risk adventure that fails more often than it succeeds !

Sending a picture to someone where a relationship already exists- or having a conversation etc are certainly not things that confident people would put up 'boundaries' around. They're simple, harmless things that potentially happen in any close relationship - especially one with a potent injection of NRE. And yes - ANY snooping is a clear sign that the level of trust necessary is not yet there. And sometimes it never will be !

It's one thing to all (both?) be honest, call a spade a spade, and say that history prevents that level of trust from being achieved. There ARE situations like that ! It doesn't mean you can't go forward - only that everyone acknowledges that you can't erase history so simply agree to a different set of tools (monitoring when needed) that connect to the reality. Not a bad thing as long as all are in agreement for the need.

Anyway........that's just my first thought based on how I read your postings.......

GS
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  #30  
Old 06-10-2011, 03:15 PM
Minxxa Minxxa is offline
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My perspective is a little different I guess. I think that when our partner is being secretive and hiding something (as opposed to just keeping some things private), we can sometimes sense that. I know I can. Hubs has often said he doesn't understand how I ALWAYS knew when he wasn't being truthful to me, and I always did, even though there was no proof.

Our relationship didnt' start in a totally healthy place, so we do have a history of my trust being broken and because of that our ideas about secrecy vs. privacy are different from someone who hasn't had those issues in their relationship.

For now he has to understand that my trust is not yet completely rebuilt and that the only thing that will do that is TIME and him living up to his side of the bargain. Were he to break that now, I'm not sure we'd get through it as I've "restarted" the trust between is multiple times and it got harder each time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
If I had issues with something or suspected him of anything (which actually rarely happened after the first year), I would ask him what was going on. The only thing he ever hid from me, quite well I might add, was the depth of his unhappiness in the last two years of our marriage. And I think I must've known because I would think about asking to talk to him and then stopped myself, I guess so I wouldn't have to hear the painful truth.
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I agree with asking them. I did this with my husband, and he lied right to my face. The OP did ask her husband and he lied right to her face. We're not talking about a healthy communication/trust cycle here-- we're talking about a relationship where that is not happening. When my husband lied to me, I KNEW he was lying, but I didn't have "proof", so he could go on lying to me and what could I do? My trust and heart were breaking but as long as he denied what was going on there was no way to work through the issue because he would not admit it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TL4everu2 View Post
I think that some of us are getting onto the wrong person's case here.

While overthinker may have been in the "wrong" for snooping....It STILL doesn't eclipse the fact that her hubby crossed that boundary. He was MORE "in the wrong" in the first place than her IMO, and he needs to be aware that it has hurt her, and that if there are certain boundaries, they need to be adhered to by both parties. He has instilled a lack of trust in Overthinker, now, that wasn't there before. This mistrust, will only serve to foster MORE jealousy unless it is dealt with.
When my hubs lied to me and I knew it I didn't say anything for quite a while, but the fact that I knew it had happened withered our relationship, and keeping it inside was WAY worse because I kindled that mistrust and heartbreak until I went a little nutty and I DID go into his email, and found the email with the proof that I had been right, my feelings WERE correct. I told my hubs and he got really mad, but later we talked and he got mad BECAUSE HE GOT CAUGHT. Yes he was mad I read his email, but in a way he had left me no choice on how to get the issue into the open and deal with it in one way or the other-- either we could get through it and learn how to communicate and that lying wouldn't work, or we'd realize it was too far gone and break up. Luckily the first happened, but had he been so angry with me and not taken responsibility for breaking the boundary AND lying to me it would have been the right decision to leave the relationship.

I understand where people are coming from about privacy and how they wouldn't want their SO invading their privacy, but I'm feeling like that's coming from people who DO NOT LIE to their partners. I think once you prove you cannot be trusted in your relationship to keep agreements and be honest you give up a certain amount of privacy for a while in order to help rebuild the trust you broke. If you can't or are not willing to do that, then that's the person's choice, of course, but then they can expect to either lose their partner or never be trusted again (which ends up in losing their partner eventually).

When you're coming into poly from a relationsihp that has been plagued with communication issues, trust issues, lying and breaking agreements there may likely be a different perspective on things and a different way of handling it because you're not dealing with a clean slate of trust. It's like that thread about poly after cheating... only this is poly after lying. It can be worked through, but both partners have to be willing. I thought for a while we weren't going to be able to make it through, yet we did. But part of that was my husband realizing all that we did have, and realizing all of the hurt and pain he put me through, and realizing that building that back after he destroyed it was going to take time and effort.

Apparently this one struck home for me! LOL
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