Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Fireplace

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 05-17-2011, 05:31 PM
TheBlackSwede's Avatar
TheBlackSwede TheBlackSwede is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Um, where did you get that information from? It's a scientific fact any man that spends his life with a pregnant woman becomes more in tune with her hormonally. His prolaction and oxytocin levels go up, and this is natural and healthy, to increase the bonding experience with his baby once it's born.

Those diseases you warn against with regards to male lactation seem spurious to me, as breastfeeding is temporary. And I've never read anything about women's testosterone going down when lactating, just that her prolaction levels go up. A man's estrogen wouldn't go up during lactation, as estrogen controls ovulation, not lactation.

A man's IQ wouldnt go down just because he lactated!
Women and men are built differently - while lactation may not cause a drop in T for a woman, it requires increased estrogen in men and E is antagonistic to T in men. Even if a man were to stop lactating after a short while, the damage to his hormones would take longer to repair. A Man's T drops low enough already post pregnancy without lactation thrown in.

This is from a friend of mine who studied endocrinology extensively. It's plenty healthy for men to bond with their children, just not to have the Estrogen levels required for lactation.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 05-17-2011, 05:42 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,618
Default

Well, I don't know about that, or the actual risks associated with that, and it's all a bit moot anyway. If a man had a baby in a 3rd world country, and no female to feed it, and no income for formula, or clean water to mix it, the benefits of his milk for his baby would outweigh any possible risks to his health because of the horrors of estrogen, I am sure.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 05-17-2011, 05:53 PM
TheBlackSwede's Avatar
TheBlackSwede TheBlackSwede is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Well, I don't know about that, or the actual risks associated with that, and it's all a bit moot anyway. If a man had a baby in a 3rd world country, and no female to feed it, and no income for formula, or clean water to mix it, the benefits of his milk for his baby would outweigh any possible risks to his health because of the horrors of estrogen, I am sure.
I think that's precisely the situation where male lactation would be important and indeed necessary. My point was merely that it's not simply an issue of pride - it's actually not healthy for men.

And I don't mean to paint Estrogen as being the evil of the world, but increased Estrogen levels in men do pose significant health risks, along with the obvious lack of er, functionality. In fact, it has been theorized that xenoestrogens are responsible in a large part for many of the health problems that have seen a significant increase in the male population over the past 50 years, and there is fascinating data on the subject as well. Anyhow, sorry for the off-topic tidbits.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 05-19-2011, 11:42 AM
MrFarFromRight's Avatar
MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Smack in the middle of The Spanish Revolution!
Posts: 483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight
Many people would feel freaked out at the idea, but it is possible for a woman who has never been pregnant to induce lactation.
I always thought this is pretty much common knowledge. I wouldn't think anyone would freak out about it.
Common knowledge? See BlackUnicorn's reply. "Freaked out" is perhaps too strong a term. I certainly think that some people would find the idea of one woman breastfeeding another woman's child to be... unnatural, even distasteful. (There are some [especially among the men and children] who find the whole "female processes" - especially menstruation - to be rather shameful, or at least embarrassing.)
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 05-19-2011, 11:58 AM
MrFarFromRight's Avatar
MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Smack in the middle of The Spanish Revolution!
Posts: 483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohegan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight
[...] it is possible for a woman who has never been pregnant to induce lactation. AH, if it were only possible for a man!
Actualy it is totally possible for men to lactate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SvartSvensk View Post
I don't mean to paint Estrogen as being the evil of the world, but increased Estrogen levels in men do pose significant health risks, along with the obvious lack of er, functionality. In fact, it has been theorized that xenoestrogens are responsible in a large part for many of the health problems that have seen a significant increase in the male population over the past 50 years, and there is fascinating data on the subject as well. Anyhow, sorry for the off-topic tidbits.
More information on both of these facets, please!

I got interested in the subject of men breastfeeding over 30 years ago while reading my favourite novel, "Woman On The Edge Of Time" by Marge Piercy. In this utopia, social and cultural imbalances between the sexes have been - as far as possible - removed. The word "father" does not exist. Each child has 3 mothers - who can be of either sex - and usually 2 of these (again: independent of sex) decide to share the responsibilities and joys of breastfeeding. I was enchanted by the idea, but a medical-student friend of mine warned me of the health risks, without being specific.

I'm old enough not to worry about dying young, I have virtually NO male pride, and I would gladly trade some "er, functionality" for the deep bond that breastfeeding would bring. But just how high ARE the risks? And how would a man provoke enough lactation in himself to be useful?
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 05-19-2011, 12:37 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,222
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
I certainly think that some people would find the idea of one woman breastfeeding another woman's child to be... unnatural, even distasteful. (There are some [especially among the men and children] who find the whole "female processes" - especially menstruation - to be rather shameful, or at least embarrassing.)
Then I guess those people never heard of wet nurses. I feel like I've known about it, like... forever.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 05-19-2011, 12:48 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
I certainly think that some people would find the idea of one woman breastfeeding another woman's child to be... unnatural, even distasteful. (There are some [especially among the men and children] who find the whole "female processes" - especially menstruation - to be rather shameful, or at least embarrassing.)
That was invented my the patriarchal misogynistic judeo-christian establishment in order to "keep women in their place".

If you read anything about Paganism, Celtic culture, and other non-"western" histories, you will find plenty of examples of where the "female processes" are celebrated as a source of power and strength because [DUH] they represent fertility and the continuation of the species [/DUH].

On the flip-side of the argument, there are also folks who think that breast-feeding one's OWN child is "unnatural, even distasteful".

So, poo-poo on your argument from both sides of the fence, yo.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 05-19-2011, 12:55 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,618
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
More information on both of these facets, please!

I got interested in the subject of men breastfeeding over 30 years ago while reading my favourite novel, "Woman On The Edge Of Time" by Marge Piercy. In this utopia, social and cultural imbalances between the sexes have been - as far as possible - removed. The word "father" does not exist. Each child has 3 mothers - who can be of either sex - and usually 2 of these (again: independent of sex) decide to share the responsibilities and joys of breastfeeding. I was enchanted by the idea, but a medical-student friend of mine warned me of the health risks, without being specific.

I'm old enough not to worry about dying young, I have virtually NO male pride, and I would gladly trade some "er, functionality" for the deep bond that breastfeeding would bring. But just how high ARE the risks? And how would a man provoke enough lactation in himself to be useful?
MrFFR, congrats on a post with no smilies, no brackets, no bolding, no underlining, no italics, no large fonts, and no colors! Refreshing!
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 05-19-2011, 12:56 PM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 7,222
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
MrFFR, congrats on a post with no smilies, no brackets, no bolding, no underlining, no italics, no large fonts, and no colors! Refreshing!
<giggle>
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me. ~Bryan Ferry
"Love is that condition in which another person's happiness is essential to your own." ~Robert Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 05-19-2011, 03:13 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Then I guess those people never heard of wet nurses. I feel like I've known about it, like... forever.
I know! It seems to me it used to be the norm for rich women NOT to breastfeed their own kids, and have someone else do it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
breastfeeding

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:26 AM.