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  #21  
Old 05-04-2011, 06:48 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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One of the high points in poly for me is when my husband (Sundance) sees the good in my bf (Butch Cassidy). I feel so validated when he agrees that Butch is a great guy and understands why I love him. I simply can't tell you how wonderful that feels -- and it makes my heart melt even more for my husband!

Now, I know he sees his faults, but he is willing to overlook them or at least make light of them, out of respect for me as well as for Butch. I admire him so much for making that effort.

It is the circumstances of my relationship with Butch that are also so attractive. Ah, yes -- the lack of promises, expectations and demands, that is exhilarating! I missed out on that in my life, as I had kids young, married young, and re-married shortly after my divorce, as well. My relationship with Butch fills in the blanks, fun stuff I missed out on. Sundance can't be that to me at all times -- we are MARRIED, it's solid, it has definitions and expectations all wrapped around it. But damn, there's a lot to be said for making a commitment to someone and keeping it, too. I love and admire and respect my husband beyond imagining for what he is willing to do to make me happy in this one wild life I have been given.

The perspective is always shifting. I'm sure your wife will come to realize how great you've been through all this, and love you all the more. Right now she is on an NRE roller coaster -- but YOU don't have to be! (Read some of VodkaFan's posts, for one example. I don't know how he does it, but he really manages to stay grounded through everything poly. Although I do think one big reason is that his wife has handled things swimmingly and with great class. Some of us blunder through, ha!)

If you have to live out the lease, I say live it out in LOVE. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, and when the lease is up he can go. Or, who knows, maybe you will all three have grown closer by then, if you try to keep an open mind and heart.

BTW, YES, I am a poly idealist! So forgive me if this all sound so "pollyanna." I KNOW it's not easy, I know sometimes it sucks. Sundance has struggled terribly and at times we have been at the brink of separation. But somehow it has always turned out right. I accredit it to Sundance and his very big heart -- it always wins out, over the jealousy and the anger. I believe in him, and I believe we are going to make it.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2011, 08:53 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Um, he could babaysit?! As I said; and she can watch her children when you guys go out. You don't need money to go out. Have a walk, have a cup of tea together at home, give her a massage. Sorry, but having no money is no excuse to me to not spend time together.

Its too bad you were lead to believe nre is short lived. Assumptions in poly don't mix I have learned. Now you're stuck. So make changes and if it doesn't work. Move at the end of the year. I made several suggestions in my post.

Maybe reading my blog will help. I live with my two guys. Never know, might be of interest.

Good luck
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2011, 10:37 PM
StillaStudent StillaStudent is offline
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A little piece I forgot to add: one of the worst parts of this deal with my wife's boyfriend and her not being "in love" with me is that is absolutely has caused me to love my wife less. I could handle the idea of her loving others, but being more "in love" with others, well that doesn't fly with me.

I was kind of excited by the prospect of going out and getting myself a girlfriend on the side as well, but it was more as a fun thing to toss into a fullfilled relationship. Now, this has caused me to feel there is a hole in my relationship that I want another girl to help fill in.

Also, it's worth noting, I was sold on this by my wife telling me exactly what I'm saying; the relationship was as good or better than ever and this was the peak of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Seems that wasn't the case.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2011, 11:52 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
A little piece I forgot to add: one of the worst parts of this deal with my wife's boyfriend and her not being "in love" with me is that is absolutely has caused me to love my wife less. I could handle the idea of her loving others, but being more "in love" with others, well that doesn't fly with me.
Frankly, I think that you should reconsider your priorities. New relationships bring new relationship energy (NRE). This is the being (or "falling") in love that you're having trouble dealing with. Unless it's a case of loveless "just sex", NRE is almost inevitable. It's taking longer to fade away than you hoped. Go easy on yourself: Get used to it.

Better for her to be "in love" for a while longer than for her to decide that
a) she doesn't love you at all;
b) she and you have no future together;
c) she and Steve do: they have a really solid, deep love that can be counted on for the rest of their lives;
d) you're unfit to be a father and Steve would make a GREAT father / step-father.
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I was kind of excited by the prospect of going out and getting myself a girlfriend on the side as well, but it was more as a fun thing to toss into a fullfilled relationship. Now, this has caused me to feel there is a hole in my relationship that I want another girl to help fill in.
BAD move! VERY bad move. Do NOT use other people to "paper over the cracks" in your marriage... or your life. ONLY start new relationships when you're feeling healthy. Otherwise there's a 90% chance that the new relationship will be unhealthy, too... and will make this whole mess even worse.
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  #25  
Old 05-05-2011, 05:21 AM
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Do NOT use other people to "paper over the cracks" in your marriage... or your life.
Well said.
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  #26  
Old 05-10-2011, 08:43 PM
StillaStudent StillaStudent is offline
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@Carma: "It is the circumstances of my relationship with Butch that are also so attractive. Ah, yes -- the lack of promises, expectations and demands, that is exhilarating!"

I understand this. However, as being the mono member of the relationship I feel cheated. How fair is it that I get to be seen as the boring guy because my relationship has those requirements? I'm now denied a wife who is excited to see me because I gave permission to do something exciting for her. The end result is an artificial relationship that is held on par with my own?

@MrFarFromRight: "Frankly, I think that you should reconsider your priorities."

This is what I've had to do. Now I have to accept the fact that my wife does not have as strong of feelings for me as I do her. The end result is that I have to ask whether I'm willing to walk from the relationship because I'm looking for a stronger one. It's sad to me. I'm less worried that she's going to leave me, but that I'm going to leave her when I find a girl who IS excited by me.

@redpepper: Yeah, I'm going to basically tell him he needs to babysit (oh look who is calling my wife) gar!. As to getting a female to paper over the cracks, I'm not really sure I'm looking at it that way. I'm seeing it more as that there's a simple dissatisfaction in my marriage now that wasn't there before.

"Oh ya, the veto thing. It doesn't sound like she is going to go with "if its too much I will leave him" thing... I think you are holding on to lost hope there. You don't seem to have the best record for holding your ground... or even having ground to hold on. What makes you think that you will have a leg to stand on with that? Especially now that he lives with you! "

Why don't I have a leg to stand on? I fail to understand how I'm in no place to make any demands after 7 years with my wife. I'm supposed to just cuckold myself like a worm to her every wish? Frankly, if I did not believe she'd stop cold turkey at my request, I'd have served her with papers.

@BlackUnicorn: We were only friends for a few months and still hang out around the house doing stuff, but while he's a good guy, I see him less as a friend now and more as competition. I concede that we foolishly didn't expect a relationship to develop, but this was new ground. As to the V, sure, we both live under this roof, but she doesn't and will not kiss him or whatever in front of me. She doesn't spend nights in his bed, tell him she loves him, ect. She and I have had great communication through all this. She knows what my demands are, and while always trying to convince me to open up, has honored those demands. Steve, on the other hand, has no idea there's the slightest amount of stress brought on by him. Again, theirs is an artificial relationship. My wife gets insulted when I call it that, but it's true. He's getting the benefits and emotionally attachment of a real relationship while not having to get involved in the nasty things a real relationship entails. This again makes him fun and exciting while I end up being boring and drama.

@All:

Please understand where I'm going here. I appreciate EVERYONE'S help here thus far, so PLEASE do not be offended. I an not intending to attack anyone. I think what happens is that I'm at something of a disconnect with how I picture relationships with many poly folk. I sense a strong bit of faux-enlightenment but it's generally coming from the people at the hinge. I think this is easy to do when there is no malice intended.

I understand the attraction of being poly. I've never loved anyone but my wife and child, but I am absolutely desirious of and open to the concept of loving other people. I can understand loving multiple people so long as there's a clearly primary relationship. I'm not talking about out of a need to get by in society, but rather in that there is a degree of love and trust that can only be given to one person. I feel like without this, then there would be a lack of the most fulfilling relationship possible, regardless of how many people you loved and carried a romantic relationship with.
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  #27  
Old 05-10-2011, 09:05 PM
StillaStudent StillaStudent is offline
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I'd also like to mention something about the sex:

A lot of people on here I have read started out similiarly to myself in allowing a spouse to sleep with someone else, with an emotional connection coming out unexpectedly. I won't speak for everyone, but I know that while I didn't expect there to be an emotional connection, I'm honestly glad there is. I don't like thinking of my wife as an object to be used simply for sex. But I, and I'd be willing to bet many in my shoes, don't take issue with the emotion, but rather in that it rivals their established relationships.

That said, I wasn't trying to get her to sleep with people. She asked me. Therefore, I'm generally left having to take her emotions and feelings on matters at face value rather than telling her what she feels. Unfortunately, she's often wrong.

Last night she asked me if it'd be okay for her to sleep in his bed with him if I were to leave for a few days for whatever reason. I told her I wouldn't approve and she argued with me that I was being possessive. She says that she's slept in bed with friends before just because she likes snuggling up to people. I don't think it's the same, especially when she's in love with the guy. Plus, every time we go further down the rabbit hole, things are never what we expect. Thoughts on this?

I'm just feeling frustrated, unloved, and unsatisfying. When I look at all of my friends and 99% of how society operates then I'm the most unpossessive guy out there. My friends wouldn't allow a fraction of this. My friends know me as a very alpha male and would never understand why I allow something like this. Yet she always wants more. I end up relenting because she makes me feel guilty, as if I'm some possessive jerk who is infringing on her happiness. She was supposed to use condoms, and I let her talk me out of that. She was supposed to not let him finish off inside her and I let her talk me out of that. I just don't get how she cannot be happy with what she has. Most women would absolutely kill for what she has.

And she doesn't get my insecurity. I was VERY secure with my relationship prior to this. She doesn't understand how this is an attack on my confidence. I exist as an alpha male in the rest of my life. I feel I'm competing for that position in my home now. I'm still concerned that she doesn't respect me because "what kind of man" allows his wife to sleep with another man? Besides, it makes me feel like a beta male to know that sometimes she wants to get laid, and she doesn't immediately thing to go to me. I understand concepts of novelty intellectually, but my gut is angry. I figured novelty would put her wanting to have sex with him only occasionally, but it hasn't worked out that way.

For example, the other night she slept with him for an hour and a half. She didn't want to go that long I'm sure, but that's how long it took for him to get off. She comes upstairs, tired, and we can only do it for about 10 minutes because she's tired and sore (marked up with a hickey on her body). How is this not an attack on my alpha status?
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  #28  
Old 05-10-2011, 09:31 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
Last night she asked me if it'd be okay for her to sleep in his bed with him if I were to leave for a few days for whatever reason. I told her I wouldn't approve and she argued with me that I was being possessive.
As I'm learning, a change in verbage can change a conversation from a confrontational attack to a simple discussion. Many times we each have slightly (even extremely) different definitions for common words. I could see where the word "approve" would immediately put her on the defensive. How would the conversation have changed if you has said "That would really freak me out at this point in time"?

Last edited by SNeacail; 05-10-2011 at 11:45 PM. Reason: apparently I can't spell :)
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  #29  
Old 05-10-2011, 11:11 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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I'm just feeling frustrated, unloved, and unsatisfying.
This is where to start. If these three things were sorted out how do you think you would look at their relationship and yours with them together? This is where the negotiating and talking begins... talk about how you feel, ask for what you need.

If you need her to not sleep on that bed with him then tell her you would feel more this way if she did and that that would not help the situation in the future. If she responds with "tough shit, I'm doing it anyway," after opening up about how you feel and telling her you are worried that you will start looking for someone else, then I would suggest that you and her are done. If she says, "oh sweety, I'm so sorry, I didn't know this was all making you feel this way," then you have a leg to stand on.

Love should be abundant, not scarce in life. Your goal is to feel like that. If you sort out the above I would be very surprised if you didn't feel just as much on top of the world as she does. If you still feel like crap and frustrated, unloved and unsatisfied, then either its over or you still have work to do. As long as she and you (and him) are willing to do the work, you will have a leg to stand on.

This is not about specific events or occurrences that make you feel as you have mentioned above, this is an over all feeling. I come to bed having had sex with Mono all the time. PN just smiles knowingly and is happy for me, rolls over and I cuddle him to sleep. It took a while to get there, but we are there and love is abundant in so many ways other than the events that happen.
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2011, 06:00 AM
charmcityalum charmcityalum is offline
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I identify with a lot you say. You could read my thread for more details but basicly me and my wife experimented with swinging, and while we found it hot it was hard for us to find couples that we as a couple matched well with. A few moths ago we decided to try "dating" others on our own. My wife started dating one of the husbands from one of our swinging couples the very next day and I still haven't met anyone....or met anyone willing to date a married man I should say.

I had problems at first with my wife telling me she even had feelings for another man....I don't know what I would have done if she had told me she was in love with him. I am working through those feelings but like you I need more than anything to feel like our relationship is the number 1 priority.

I like you was in the military and am very much an alpha male. With me and my wife the arguments aren't so much over the other man, but over being poly. After allowing my wife to go on two overnight dates I never felt compersion, I hated it. Then my wife tells me she has feelings for the man she is dating. So I tried to play the Veto card and my wife said she couldn't go back to being vanilla. I felt betrayed, and angry that having other relationships was more important to my wife than what we had together and that she'd be willing to trash that if I'm not able to get on board the Poly train.

I think it is easy for people like my wife and your wife (and some of the posters on here that are at the hinge position) to look at people like you and I and say being polys great and you should get on board. They are getting the best of both worlds. I have wondered if the roles were reversed what my wifes reaction to this would have been.

For the majority of our relationship my wife felt the same way I did. Then she goes on a couple of overnight dates and blam all of a sudden she's poly. Then she looks at me and says o.k. you need to be poly also and feel compersion for me when I'm out, when nothing has changed for me. While all this arguing has been going on I told my wife that no one should be seeing anyone else and communication should be kept to a minumum. She agreed saying that she knows we need to fix our relationship problems but everytime we have a good day or two she starts pressuring me about seeing him again and then decides to tell me today that if I take to long to get on board with this that she is going to start resenting me for not allowing her to go be with her "boyfriend". I feel that being poly and having this bf has become a higher priority to my wife than our marriage and am hurt by that.

With all that being said I may or may not be the best person to take advice from but I have a little to offer. I may not be an expert on Poly relationships but I do know that any healthy relationship requires balance and yours is in desparate need for some. It sounds to me like you are doing a whole lot of giving and your wife is doing a whole lot of taking. If you haven't already you and both of the other parts of your checkmark should read "Opening Up" and sit down and write a contract.

I have spent very little time with my wifes bf and had limited conversation, but he doesn't live with me and my wife and I am not very good at maintaning relationships (part of my problem with being poly). Your metamour is living with you boss in your castle. You need to sit him and your wife down and set some boundries. If nothing else at least you saying what you want and then them saying what they want will open the lines of communication up for comprimise.

Either way I would be prepared for a lot of frustration. From my limited dealings with my wife and from what i've read during my research right or wrong many Poly's feel and act like their entitled to this lifestyle. I would imagine your wife is pretty cozy with her situation there and doubt she is gonna react favorably to you trying to set some boundries now seeing as how you haven't set and kept many in the past, but you've got to get some balance back. I also think that if Steve is going to live with you guys and be that much a part of your life he should contribute more to the relationship as a whole and not just be shacked up and sleeping with your wife. Chores, childcare, that sort of thing. Thats my 2 cents. Good luck.
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