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  #11  
Old 05-03-2011, 04:30 PM
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One thing that I see happening is that you have given up part of yourself to be what she "thinks" (has told you) you should be. Now that you have changed who you are to fit into her mold, she finds it boring. This is not unusual. Re-claim yourself! Do the things that make you happy, follow the career that makes you happy. If that means back into the military, then do it.

Make a schedule and start looking around for some reliable babysitters! Neither of you should be stuck at home all the time with the kid just so the other can go out an party. You need a balance. You and your wife also need some date nights. Can Steve watch the kid so you and your wife can go out once a week?
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2011, 08:11 PM
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I don't know what others have said, so I may be repeating or I may not. In any case, if there is a repeat then at least you know that more than one person thinks it. If not I hope this perspective is helpful. Obviously you can take it or leave it. In any case this will be a bit of an ass kicking

It sounds to me like its time to put your foot down. You love your wife, I get that, but you aren't setting boundaries and aren't doing what you need to do for you and your child.

I think buddy has to move out first off. Why he moved in in the first place is beyond me. He never should of. There is far too much going on in your relationship to justify it being a good idea. I think it needs to be known that he has to pack his bags and find a place because your marriage is crumbling around you.

That isn't good for you or your child I don't think. Your child will get attached to someone prematurely and that isn't fair. Yours is a tenous situaion at best and they might be eventually abandoned by this person and their mother in a split up that was brought on by his moving in. Why would you want that on your shoulders.

The trip you took sounds lovely for them and crap for you. Why would you agree to that, seriously?! To play the martyr or to make her happy? Either way you lucked out while they had a good time at your expense. Stop doing that. It isn't serving anyone. The balance is off and is slowly getting worse because you don't put your foot down. They are using you.

Its awesome she has two guys but it isn't a competition. She is telling you shit that is making you feel that way and you are allowoing it or asking for it. What they do is their business and up to them. I don't advise you ask about it, involve yourself in it or think about it. That way you can concentrate on what you have with her rather than what they are doing.

It sounds to me like some order needs to happen. Regular date nights where he baysits and you two go out, regular family time just the three of you (child included), regular date nights for them and a complete balance of time. If you all live together then in my experience it works better to be sure time is divided in such a way that EVERYONE is content.

Time to start talking. Figure out what your boundaries are and stick to them when you talk to them. Then they get to say what theirs are and so negotiating begins. Add to them things you want to do; the job you dropped, take it up again, the military, join again, the projects you want to do, do them. I think he should go, but if he stays its time to arrange child care. Organize when he looks after the kid so that you can do some stuff you want. You playing babysitter all the time is not okay I don't think. Again, using you.

Dropping your life to please her is not a great idea. Do you see that? It never was. I don't think you get to play martyr for decisions like quiting because she said. All those things made you interesting and you and now she says you're boring? You have allowed her to create a man out of you when that was your job. You are your own person, love aside, you should be doing what YOU want and need while considering her and your child, not giving up because she said. Start living like that! Maybe she will find you interesting again because of it. I hate when women do that shit, men let them and then no one wins and the relationship ends.

Lastly, I think it might be wise to figure out if buddy is a cowboy. Is he in this to steel her away? Some of what you said about him indicates it might be so.

Straighten up, get your head on straight, think clearly and put your "falling in love with her ten times a day" or whatever aside. I think your vision on this has been severly blurry.
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2011, 08:24 PM
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Get him out and get some space to fix your primary relationship. This was way too soon.
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Old 05-03-2011, 08:51 PM
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One thing I've found in "poly world" is that my husband's emotions change. A lot. OFTEN. If we jumped to the beat of his drum, we'd be psycho by now! I don't think you need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.... that is, the boyfriend out with the mixed emotions! You sound open-minded, this is just tough to wrap your head around, especially at first. You can still grapple with your feelings of jealousy without kicking Steve out or cutting off your wife's relationship with him. You will need a lot of support (here on this forum there is LOADS of it ) and dedication to making the best of it. It seems to me that there is some good stuff going on here, not all bad, it's just getting things into balance that you have to work on. Is it worth it? Only you can know that, for yourself.

As for me, I fantasize about moving my bf in, which will most likely NEVER, EVER happen, but still -- I can imagine our V in your situation and I wonder how we would handle it. I would not want to give up too soon, I guess is what I'm saying. But -- that is because mine is just a fantasy, not real life! Real life, where things get messy and volatile. And YES -- my husband would want a CHECK formation, rather than a V, too!

I don't know what went into the decision process of Steve moving in with you but I doubt you went into it lightly. Or -- maybe you did?

I feel bad for your hurt feelings. It is sad about the "boring" perception -- but there is nothing boring about being a good dad and being there for your child I agree with the others who have encouraged you to pursue some of your own interests again. I hope you can find some balance in your life. You don't sound like a bore, to me
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2011, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
I've never seen anyone talk about a V as compared to a checkmark, as if the length of the "legs" in the V or checkmark represents the importance of the person at the hinge. You must be very visually-oriented.
I found this a very inventive and useful description for the way many people actually feel. They call their relationships Vs, but they're really check marks. At least SaS is honest about wanting this. (And you made a little mistake: the length of the "legs" in the V or checkmark represents the relative importance of the two arms to the person at the hinge.)
I wasn't criticizing, I was acknowledging him. I thought it was a very creative and visual way of looking at things. And yes, perhaps I should have said that the "length of the legs of the Vee or Checkmark represents the importance of the people involved to the person at the hinge." But if you're at the end of one of those legs, and not the hinge, what I said still works. Doesn't matter anyway, I think it was still clear. Out of whatever else I and everyone else said, I wouldn't have imagined that this statement of mine, which was really just an aside, even merited a comment. ???
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  #16  
Old 05-03-2011, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
Get him out and get some space to fix your primary relationship. This was way too soon.
Really? that is all I had to say? heh. Kidding

Oh ya, the veto thing. It doesn't sound like she is going to go with "if its too much I will leave him" thing... I think you are holding on to lost hope there. You don't seem to have the best record for holding your ground... or even having ground to hold on. What makes you think that you will have a leg to stand on with that? Especially now that he lives with you!
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  #17  
Old 05-04-2011, 01:11 PM
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Hi there! Although I don't agree with everything you have to say, I do admire your courage to speak up about what's bugging you. I hope you are as openly communicative with your wife and Steve - that alone could help loads.

I agree with mostly everything Derby had to say, but just want to highlight a few more points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
So a few months ago she asked to sleep with a mutual friend. After a lot of talking about it I told her it was okay.
What exactly did you talk about? I read the list below and it didn't read as very realistic, sorry to say. Unless your wife and you, after long-term experience, could both honestly say that regular sex with someone you really like has NEVER brought up any romantic feelings whatsoever, I think you basically dug your own grave while getting into this and not at least mentally preparing for the possibility of long-term relationship. Your wife obviously didn't, either, but now it's happened, and you can't really turn back the clock with this one.

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Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
She and I were sleeping together daily, sometimes more often than that.
Your more active than average sex life with your wife, even with a child and many years together, was obviously a great source of pride and comfort for you. Were you afraid that if that changed, your marriage would somehow become less special, more ordinary in a way?

I went through a period of equating frequency of sex with the amount of caring in relationship. And in a way it is a good measure, if the ONLY caring that ever occurs does so in between the sheets.

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Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
Well, over that month our relationship takes a dive. She proceeds to tell me that she loves me but isn't "in love" with me. I've gotten boring. I'm angry. I'm depressed. I'm not passionate about anything.
The 'love but not in-love' part? NRE speaking. The rest is just her projecting her own feelings and anxieties on to you. I hate to always go for the 'blame the baby' -defense, but it reads as she might have some 'is a mother everything I am ever going to be anymore?' -anxiety. What she was effectively telling you was that she was feeling boring, she was angry, and she was depressed, mostly with herself. And NRE can be a lovely temporary alleviation for that, but it does little to solve the underlying issues behind the problem.

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Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
Mind you, I was in the military (happily) previously and she gave me the ultimatum, "her or the military" I gave up the military and a few other jobs I found interesting for her.
Which events lead up to the ultimatum? I perfectly understand why someone who is looking into having kids would not be thrilled with their spouse's military career. I agree with previous posters - look into quality day care providers in your area. Now that she has another relationship, she might be more equipped to deal with you having a time- and energy-consuming job as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
She's mentioned the V relationship and that's unacceptable to me. A checkmark shape, sure, but not a V.
Hate to say this, but from her perspective, she effectively IS in a vee already. Chris-sakes, she has both of you living under the same roof! It doesn't get a lot more vee-ey than that.

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Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
As to the sex part, she and Steve have really agressive, acrobatic, wild sex. She and I have sex that's slower, with more grinding. She says that I'm a better lay and the only one that can get her off, but she has never been someone to let me have more wild, acrobatic sex because I'm a little more endowed and it hurts her. She's much more corrective of me during sex than him. So this all together makes it really hard to believe that I'm a better lay.
I take it that 'really aggressive, acrobatic, wild sex' equals 'good sex' for you, and you feel like she is less satisfied with what the two of you have, despite the fact that you have sex daily? First, the fact that all women prefer rough penetrative sex with as big as possible is a big fat lie. Most of us weren't equipped to take in some foot-long monstrosity. What I think many men who have smaller than average penises don't realize is that there really is a large market for them. And a lot of women prefer fingers due to the more subtle and precise stimulation anyways.

I have a monstrously proportioned boyfriend. And it requires so little work for me to feel him. Often, if he moves about a little too excitedly, it doesn't exactly hurt but feels like too much nevertheless. So we have a lot of pretty tantric sex. What I'm saying that with him being the way he is, acrobatics or roughness are not NECESSARY for it to feel like it should (which might also explain the getting-off-only-with-you part; many women have hard time coming if they are putting in a lot of effort to feel something in the first place). And also, the fact that she feels secure enough to tell you how she likes it is a HUGE compliment - many women, myself included, have a very high threshold to cross with that, and rather face the prospect of having less-than-satisfying sex than risk embarrassment with speaking up during the deed.
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  #18  
Old 05-04-2011, 05:22 PM
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Wow guys, I didn't expect to hear from so many of you. I really appreciate it and apologize that I cannot reply to every one of you individually.

I'd like to clear a few things up:

It's not possible at this point to have Steve move out. He's in a lease with us for about a year. I generally allowed him to move in because I was expecting the NRE to die down and for her to see her situation more accurately. I did this with the advice after talking to my wife and one of her friends (the only other person who knew about it) Everyone expected the NRE to die down. That's part of my concern. I'd figure that 4 months later it would have.

As for the sex, I don't have a problem with her sleeping with someone she has feelings for, rather it's the fact that I'm not clearly "her man". It's the checkmark vs. the V formation. I've never loved anyone other than my wife and child. Not my parents, not my friends, no one. I wish I had more love in my life, but I don't. I'm certainly open to it, it just hasn't happened. But I'm very happy for my wife loving as much as she does. I actually find it preferable that she sleeps with people she does have feelings for, just not when it becomes feelings that are so strong as to threaten our marriage. I forgot to add, one of the rules (which I don't suppose many here think will be a good idea) is that if she does do anything sexual with him she has to tell me.

As I see it, Steve doesn't deserve my wife. I recognize that isn't my call to make though. How she could even entertain the concept of putting us together as equals to her is insulting. It makes me wonder why I went through all I did to marry her if another guy can just waltz into our life and win her heart just as easy. It's also again extremely frustrating to know that he wouldn't have allowed her to be with anyone else if he were her husband, yet she can feel just as strongly for him.

We do have pretty open lines of communication, but Steve is left out completely. He is my friend, and if he knew this is causing any marital strife he'd stop sleeping with my wife. My wife claims her dissatisfaction with our relationship is unrelated to him (and to some degree she is right). But she does have something of an artificial relationship with him. He gets to be low drama because he doesn't have any expectations. Effectively, there's no talk of love or a relationship being being friends who have sex and he has no one sleeping with HIS wife. So he gets to stay fun while I get to be the guy who is being practically bi-polar with his emotions. I think this again puts me at a handicap.

My failures have been many here. She feels neglected. I haven't made much time for just us. I didn't feel the same way she did. I can be sitting down doing schoolwork and watching my wife cook in the kitchen and feel an intense love for her. She, on the other hand, needs to be doing things together. I have to correct this. She says she doesn't feel connected. I have to figure out how to reconnect. We've got no money to go out and do things or have our child watched since I'm raising a family on GI Bill. I watch our kid a lot to give her time for herself, but she says that just makes me a good dad, not someone she feels connected to.

All is not lost, she says she loves me more than Steve, just that she's "in love" with him and not me. This is emotional torture, especially with him under the same roof.

I recognize many of you think I should just worry about my relationship with her and not concern myself with her relationship with him, but it isn't that simple to me. The checkmark is non-negotiable. I'm not a monogomous guy (well in practice I am because most women bore me), but I am more so this way than her. It comes down to your home team. When the chips are down and you have one person in this world you can rely on, it's always one person. I just cannot grok the concept of feeling equal emotional attachment for two people. I mean, I would be fine if she loved or was "in love" and sleeping with 5 boyfriends, just so long as she believed and I believed that I was her man.

Again, I deeply appreciate all of your comments. You guys are actually helping out quite a bit here.
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  #19  
Old 05-04-2011, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
I generally allowed him to move in because I was expecting the NRE to die down and for her to see her situation more accurately. I did this with the advice after talking to my wife and one of her friends (the only other person who knew about it) Everyone expected the NRE to die down. That's part of my concern. I'd figure that 4 months later it would have.
The scientific explanation for NRE or the reaction of being in-love I've read about is that it allows two people to get it on approximately as long as it takes for a healthy couple to conceive, so anything between 6 months to 2 years. So I would postpone all major life decisions, including moving-in together, till at least two years have gone past.

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Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
I forgot to add, one of the rules (which I don't suppose many here think will be a good idea) is that if she does do anything sexual with him she has to tell me.
That doesn't actually sound very outlandish/control-freaky to me. Depends of course on how much detail you want, but I think it's actually fairly common to let one partner know if there is going to be sexy times with the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
We do have pretty open lines of communication, but Steve is left out completely. He is my friend, and if he knew this is causing any marital strife he'd stop sleeping with my wife.
I suspect this is a major point for improvement. He is living there - he is part of your life, and more over, a friend.

Do you do any friend stuff together with Steve? Do you have guy dates?

Show the two of them your posts, or an edited version thereof (telling Steve he doesn't deserve your wife point-blank might have to wait a little ). Steve deserves to get in the loop, and you need to respect he is an adult who can deal with his own relationship stuff and own up to his actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillaStudent View Post
We've got no money to go out and do things or have our child watched since I'm raising a family on GI Bill. I watch our kid a lot to give her time for herself, but she says that just makes me a good dad, not someone she feels connected to.
Date nights at home? Like Steve taking the baby out for a walk, and the two of you cooking and watching a movie together? You need equal date time with her compared to what Steve is getting, and guy dates with Steve as well.
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2011, 05:57 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Check out the book, "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. It may help you both find that connection again. It's kinda like if you wife is allergic to roses, yet you always bring her roses to show her love knowing she is allergic, she's not going to feel the love. Your wife wants quality time with you, GIVE IT TO HER! Find stuff to do that doesn't require money. Go on picnics, go for a drive, go watch a sunset, play a board game in bed or something, just make the time.

"Quality Time" is one of my love languages and I fully understand where your wife if coming from. It is really hard to feel any connection with someone who doesn't seem to take the time to be with just you. It's very irritating and downright insulting when we are expecting quality time and our partner is spending "our" time doing other stuff (studying, internet surfing, texting, etc).
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