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  #11  
Old 05-03-2011, 01:10 AM
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Ivy Ivy is offline
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Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
I'd be jumping the gun if I replied here, because I've read another of your blogs and know where this is heading... so I'm going to reply on that other blog and let you tell the whole story here at your own pace.
Thanks. I think laying it out here is sort of a therapeutic thing (I tried an actual therapist, but it didn't work out. Plus, she charged a lot.)

I do absolutely welcome comments though, so please, bring 'em on! I hope to keep this blog going after I've finished my little story. When things get complicated, writing it out and getting input from others really helps me cope and figure out where I should have done things differently.

Maybe my life will be interesting enough to merit it, maybe not. And if it's not, maybe I'll just keep it going so everyone can read it and realize how exciting their life is by comparison.
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2011, 01:52 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
Thanks. I think laying it out here is sort of a therapeutic thing (I tried an actual therapist, but it didn't work out. Plus, she charged a lot.)

I do absolutely welcome comments though, so please, bring 'em on! I hope to keep this blog going after I've finished my little story. When things get complicated, writing it out and getting input from others really helps me cope and figure out where I should have done things differently.

Maybe my life will be interesting enough to merit it, maybe not. And if it's not, maybe I'll just keep it going so everyone can read it and realize how exciting their life is by comparison.
Ivy, Ivy! Being able to laugh at yourself is positive and therapeutic. Don't I know it: I'm - among other things - a clown.

But sometimes you seem to be overdoing the putting-yourself-down bit.

I had a MASSIVE inferiority complex when I was a child and adolescent. I'm going to give you my self-therapy tip and ask you to try it out:

Look at yourself in a good-sized mirror. Look into your eyes and tell yourself:
a) I'm an attractive woman.
b) (More important) I'm a good person.
c) I have friends who do really care for me.
d) I have a supportive husband who loves me (and loved me when I was "OBESE") and a son who thinks the world of me.
e) I'm an excellent ---. [In my case it was ... babysitter and the maker of the best pizzas I know. (I have now graduated to "the best babysitter I know", as well.)]
f) I'm intelligent and caring.
g) If anybody else has problems accepting me as I am and/or seeing my worth... well that's their problem - not mine - because my worth is plain to see to anyone who (as the Little Prince' Fox said) "sees with the heart".

My therapy is free, it works (even if you can't help laughing at yourself during the first few sessions)... and it'll drive your husband crazy, wondering what you're doing for so long locked in the bathroom.
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If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2011, 12:20 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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Hullo Ivy! I find your story filled with suspense (what is going to happen with Ella and Ben?), so I can't help but to comment now because all of my assumptions might turn out wrong.

But yeah, this:


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Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
First, Ella's ability to garner male attention was astounding. Much of the time, she expressed no attraction toward these men, or even a bit of disgust, but would still cultivate their interest. The problem was, she seemed utterly unaware of others' feelings, and treated sex as something entirely meaningless.

Case in point: we went out for drinks at a bar. Within a couple hours, three men had bought her drinks. One of them stopped paying attention to a woman who was clearly interested in him (not sure if it was his date), in order to gain Ella's attention. She started idly stroking his arm, and the other woman left, visibly upset. Another man bought her a second round. She told me she found him extremely unappealing, but by the end of the evening was asking how I'd feel if she went home with him, instead of me--she felt obligated, since he'd bought her two drinks.

I had a massive emotional conflict that night. First, I was envious. I had never had even one man, save Vino, buy me a drink without disclaiming it as "just friends." Second, I was worried as hell--is this why she had been sexually involved with that many men? Because of a sense of obligation? If so, why was she involved with me? Finally, I was pissed--she almost left our date to go home with a man she didn't even like!
To me, the way you describe Ella seems like a classic case of a woman who has been sexually abused. She feels like she has absolutely no control over her own sexuality, and feels that it is her fault if she is abused/pressed into doing things she doesn't want to. Because she so clearly is unable to stand up for herself, she involuntarily sends out all the wrong signals to all the wrong men.

Her weirdness over Ben having any other relationships might be just that Ben is the only man in a long line who has respected her as a human being, and she is afraid of losing that. Since it appears you also treat her as something more than a fuck-doll, she might simply have experienced a double-whammy of insecurity with the thought of you two becoming involved and inevitably tossing her in the process.

Another point that struck me was that your interactions with Ben and Ella all seem to revolve around heavy drinking.

Anyway, really excited to read what happened next!
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2011, 12:53 AM
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Ivy Ivy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
(even if you can't help laughing at yourself during the first few sessions)...
Okay, I tried it. But...yeah. I felt very silly.

BUT, I think the positive thoughts helped. I felt pretty good about myself for a few hours afterward. I'm realizing that I start actually believing I'm attractive before I'm going to come across that way to anyone else (regardless of how well I've objectively taken care of myself). So you're right in that it's an internal retraining thing.

Vino also thinks I need to dress more provocatively. He feels it's as important as body language in sending "available" signals. I think his advice is somewhat self-serving, but perhaps he's right.

So I have two interrelated goals, then: think nice thoughts about myself, and buy shiny new slutwear.
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2011, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
Hullo Ivy! I find your story filled with suspense...
Hi there! Thanks for reading and taking the time to give some input. It is indeed suspenseful, even for me, apparently--I passed Ella in some slow-moving city traffic today. I think she saw me, because she cut someone off to make a quick turn off the main street. We live in the same area of town, so it was really a non-event, but my heart kinda skipped a beat anyway.

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Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
To me, the way you describe Ella seems like a classic case of a woman who has been sexually abused. She feels like she has absolutely no control over her own sexuality, and feels that it is her fault if she is abused/pressed into doing things she doesn't want to. Because she so clearly is unable to stand up for herself, she involuntarily sends out all the wrong signals to all the wrong men.
She definitely had problems when she was younger, but I doubt she would have told me (or anyone) if something like that had happened. She definitely does act, at times, like it's out of her control--especially when faced with a assertive or aggressive men. At the same time, she's very defensive of her behavior--she feels that her sexual choices are her own and not open for public critique.

It made it very difficult to comment, express concern, or even discuss my own insecurities without it being interpreted as personal criticism. This became a big stress point in our relationship. We pretty much stopped talking about (and later, having) sex because of it.

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Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
Her weirdness over Ben having any other relationships might be just that Ben is the only man in a long line who has respected her as a human being, and she is afraid of losing that...she might simply have experienced a double-whammy of insecurity....
Absolutely, and I don't think I fully understood this until the relationship had ended. She responds to hurt with intense anger; I respond to hurt with weepiness, and I reserve anger for when I'm truly, overwhelmingly, directly pissed.

More on this in the next part, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
Another point that struck me was that your interactions with Ben and Ella all seem to revolve around heavy drinking.
Yup, and this actually became a bit of an issue for Vino (not that he would begrudge anyone a drink or two--there's a reason I'm calling him that). Unintended upshot of the breakup is that I've cut back way back, and Vino's happy.

Part of the drinking was the social atmosphere of law school, where we all met--you get so few breaks that, when you do find a few hours, you have to pack in a couple weeks' worth of fun, so everyone drinks WAY too much (lawyers have astoundingly high rates of alcoholism). Part of it is that Ella is very, very shy, especially around women, and doesn't really open up at all until she's had a couple drinks. It was several months before I convinced her that sober sex is actually better sex.

I'll be adding the next part in a bit. Getting this all out has been really cathartic, and the advice and comments are tremendously helpful (keep 'em coming), but I'm eager to move on--both in this blog and in real life.
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  #16  
Old 05-05-2011, 06:54 AM
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TheBlackSwede TheBlackSwede is offline
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I'm breaking out the popcorn... this is an incredible story!

I cannot fathom why Ella wouldn't want you and Ben to be involved! What could be better than two people you love loving each other too??? The notion that she's afraid you two would forget all about her is about the only plausible explanation I've heard.
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  #17  
Old 05-05-2011, 11:22 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Also looking forward to hearing more. You write well and I am kinda fond of your sense of humor!
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  #18  
Old 05-05-2011, 10:55 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight
(even if you can't help laughing at yourself during the first few sessions)...
Okay, I tried it. But...yeah. I felt very silly.

BUT, I think the positive thoughts helped. I felt pretty good about myself for a few hours afterward. I'm realizing that I start actually believing I'm attractive before I'm going to come across that way to anyone else (regardless of how well I've objectively taken care of myself). So you're right in that it's an internal retraining thing.
Notice that "first few sessions"! You have to keep at it. It gets less silly as time goes by. It feels silly at the beginning because you're actually embarrassed by complementing yourself... because part of you still doesn't believe that you are wonderful.

p.s. I originally wrote
Quote:
Look at yourself in a good-sized mirror. Look into your eyes and tell yourself:
a) I'm an attractive woman. [...]
The looking into your eyes is to convince yourself that you're sincere. I forgot to add that - at least for a) - you're also supposed to look at any other part of you reflected in the mirror - and any part of you at all without need of the mirror reflection - but when you say it, look into your eyes. [Arguably the most attractive part of anybody, the "windows to the soul".] You might laugh now, but...
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #19  
Old 05-05-2011, 11:02 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
look into your eyes. [Arguably the most attractive part of anybody, the "windows to the soul".] You might laugh now, but...
(No, that isn't my own eye that I use as an icon: it's a photo-composition that I asked aniece - in her 1st year of studying photography - to make for me for my birthday.)
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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  #20  
Old 05-06-2011, 03:36 AM
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Ivy Ivy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
(No, that isn't my own eye that I use as an icon: it's a photo-composition that I asked aniece - in her 1st year of studying photography - to make for me for my birthday.)
I thought you just had bitchin' contacts.
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