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Old 04-29-2011, 07:53 AM
Altea Altea is offline
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Default Still too confused

I wrote some time ago about my situation http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8436

I made research on how to deal with problems and well, obviously I found two keywords: talking with each other and setting some ground rules.

I spoke with my bf about our expectations. And I ended up even more confused than before we talked

I said that I approve of polyamory not only as triad but also as a vee (or other configurations) if he wants as long as I can keep friendly with my eventuall metamours and he with his (I didn't want to make huge boundries but I just can't imagine a situation when I and an eventuall metamour would fight each other or very dislike each other, it would feel bad)
Then I said that I know, he has issues with sex and that I am open to try swinging if that is what he really desires.

He said he likes the idea of both polyamory and swinging which is fine with me.

I said only, which is true and I guess it will be hard to change for me, that I don't want to have what I call 'an open relatinship'. I said that I don't want us to date someone who the other side wouldn't at least like somehow, and that also getting to know new people just for one-night stands is something I don't approve of.
I don't know if this is much, or normal. I just know that these are the limits for me now, because I still have problems trusting him after all the bad things he had said to me in the past.

At first he agreed. But a few hours later he came to me and said that it is stupid that I agree to polyamory and swinging but not to an open raletionship. Ha said that it hurts his freedom and that he hopes that I will change my opinions couse other way he will have to dump me. He said that he feels that I will chain him to me and not let him be himself. He added that it is limiting to him that I would like to know and like the persons he is dating/sleeping with (although he knows that among the many people we both know (about 150) there are only 3 girls I don't get along with and that because they started fighting with me. I am usually very friendly towards others as long as tey are fair.

I said that I don't know how it will be in the future. That I have some limits now and that I hope he will respect then and later on they will probably change. But the thing that I have to at leas a bit like his other girls will for sure never change (as I wrote before I can't imagine such a situation can be good). Of course the same would go for me- he would have to like the peopole I would want to get involved with. But he said that he is afraid that it won't work and that nothing will change.

And again I felt lost and alone and confused. Cause I know I'm not ready to give him now all the freedom he wants but I realy, realy want to give him what he wants in the future (except this one thing that I don't want him to be dating people I heve myself never ever met or people I get along very bad), but I just need his help to gain each others trust again, and that's something he just won't understad and what he is afraid of
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:47 PM
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Is he on here? It sounds like he could benefit from reading up, maybe participating.

Take a breath for a second. It sounds like the two of you are scared of what happens next; you because he could dive in and he because he thinks you'll hold him back. All valid, but not neceassirly true and even if it might be, I don't think it wise to hold someone back or jump in.

There is lots of time. Both of you would be wise to take the time to get used to the notion of change before making changes. You might find you can give more than you think when the time comes and if trust is built and he might find that going out and obtaining this so far unobtainable life is worth waiting for and building on slowly and so as not to destroy what he has with you.

Its all such a balancing act and the one thing that helps people get used to that is taking the time you have and going over every detail, scenario, every bit of information you can get your hands on and then realizing that you won't really know until you try something.
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Old 04-29-2011, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altea View Post
At first he agreed. But a few hours later he came to me and said that it is stupid that I agree to polyamory and swinging but not to an open raletionship. Ha said that it hurts his freedom and that he hopes that I will change my opinions couse other way he will have to dump me. He said that he feels that I will chain him to me and not let him be himself. He added that it is limiting to him that I would like to know and like the persons he is dating/sleeping with (although he knows that among the many people we both know (about 150) there are only 3 girls I don't get along with and that because they started fighting with me.
It sounds like your boyfriend has a bad case of "give and inch, take a mile". If he demands everything at once and offers you an ultimatum, I'd say he needs to look at how committed he is to your relationship. If he feels that trapped he should move on and stop laying guilt trips on you. Sorry to sound negative but this kind of thing reeks of selfishness and childish impatience.
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
It sounds like your boyfriend has a bad case of "give and inch, take a mile". If he demands everything at once and offers you an ultimatum, I'd say he needs to look at how committed he is to your relationship. If he feels that trapped he should move on and stop laying guilt trips on you. Sorry to sound negative but this kind of thing reeks of selfishness and childish impatience.
Agreed.

I am someone who gets rather annoyed with people trying to corner me 'their way'. However, if you are invested in someone, then you give people the time they need to adjust in the beginning. You do not seem to be asking anything unreasonable, while he seems to want it 'all' now. Maybe he needs to see it from another point of view.

Also,..are you sure you both have the same definition for the terms you are using ? What you define as a 'open relationship'...is also what he defines ?
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Old 04-29-2011, 06:27 PM
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There does seem to be some confusion here. It sounds like you have agreed to lots already, so what has made him think that you will renege on your initial agreement? Have said that you will do something in the past and then changed your mind? I can't help but think his anxiety about your not following through is related to some other issue.

Great idea to make sure you both are in agreement about what is meant by open, swinging, poly; every new word should be clarified I think, just so you are on the same page.
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Old 04-29-2011, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Great idea to make sure you both are in agreement about what is meant by open, swinging, poly; every new word should be clarified I think, just so you are on the same page.
I have discovered even "old" words may also need further clarification.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altea View Post
At first he agreed. But a few hours later he came to me and said that it is stupid that I agree to polyamory and swinging but not to an open raletionship. Ha said that it hurts his freedom and that he hopes that I will change my opinions couse other way he will have to dump me.
[...]
And again I felt lost and alone and confused. Cause I know I'm not ready to give him now all the freedom he wants but I realy, realy want to give him what he wants in the future (except this one thing that I don't want him to be dating people I heve myself never ever met or people I get along very bad), but I just need his help to gain each others trust again, and that's something he just won't understad and what he is afraid of
[I've also read your first thread, and] I'm afraid that I agree with Mono and SourGirl: this bf of yours seems to be manipulating you - trying to make you feel guilty for
a) his ex-girlfriend's jealousy and for her decision to walk out on him (and you).
b) your asking him for quite reasonable things. (He tries to persuade you that what you're asking for isn't reasonable.)
c) the relationship not working.

He seems so negative about everything that I'm not sure that you'll have a healthy relationship. (Unless he starts to get positive and also to work on his problems instead of believing them to be your problems.) You're willing to make compromises, agree to polyamory or swinging (or a bit of both), whichever he's happiest with... and he says that he sees you as his enemy, and "when he was angry he started shouting at me that he will go and have sex with other girls" (i.e. use the threat of having sex with others as a way to punish you)???!!!

Sharing the same hobbies and religion isn't enough. If he doesn't learn to respect you, you're going to have a tough ride ALL the way. Every time something goes wrong, it'll be your fault.

This sentence - from your first post - scares me:
Quote:
He always talked abot how much he wants sex with girls who wanted him but hated me, and said they have the right to hate me but I don't have the right to hate them, and he also said he can have sex with whomever he wants to even if that means that I will suffer or be laughed at by those girls.
but maybe I'm not understanding what you (or he) mean. Does this mean that there are certain girls that he wants sex with and that he's not going to stop wanting that just because they hate you? Or does it means that - for him - it's an added attraction that the girls want him but hate you?

If the second is true, it means that he wants you to "suffer or be laughed at by those girls". In that case, if I were you, I would walk away and not look back.

Believe me, it's easier to find somebody who loves you than to turn somebody who hates and disrespects you into somebody who loves you.
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:15 PM
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If he is at all interested I would love to hear his side. Its so easy to be on the side of the person who posts, but I like to remember there are always two sides of every story. It takes two to have a relationship. Generally people have a reason people behave a certain way. I'm curious to know what is going on for him.
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:26 AM
Altea Altea is offline
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Sorry for not writing for such a long time, but I had no access to the internet.

Thanks for so many replies.

Redpepper- No, he is not here. I also thought it would be good for him to do some reading. I mentioned to him, that I write here sometimes and do research, but he seems not to be willing to participate here on his own. Though he likes me to tell him what I have found out.

I know we need time. Time and talking. But time seems to be something that makes him freak out. He says that he has been waiting already for quite a long time and that he feels pressure.

Mono- I guess you're right. But on the other hand I sometimes also tend to have my moments of demanding too much at once. And I also freak out sometimes and make ultimatum-like statements. It's hard for us making small steps. Maybe because we are both impatient and bad-tempered.

SourGirl- Maybe it will sound funny but before I started to talk with him about what we want and expect I started a more theorethical discussion. We both said what we understand under what terms and settled our definitions of 'poly' 'open' and 'swing'. And also I made him acquaint of some poly dynamics (V, N, triad and so on) so that we could precisely say what we have in mind both as our ideals and our limits.

Redpepper agian-At first when we met we both said that monogamious relationships are not for us. Then that whole situation with his ex gf occured. She started to be mad at him because of me (though they both agreed they will have other relationships besides of their and she had another bf by then she didn't wanted him to have any other girl besides her). That made him lose faith in women. He was broken hearted after they broke up and somtimes accused me of him loosing her. I became frightened and insecure because of him insulting me and our quarreling. And all my openness disappeared. And I was starting to be jealous becouse I didn't feel all that affection and stability I nedded. So yes, in some sense I have changed my mind, though I knew it wasn't permanent. I just wanted to be monogamious for the time it would take for us to learn to trust each other and settle all the issues we had with ourselfs and our relationship.

MrFarFromRight
- I guess he is manipulating me. But I am also not without fault. Some time ago I really demanded unreasonalbe things but that chnages constantly. He sees that I am changing 'for the better' now but he thinks it's too slow.

He uses some threads. It's also something that scares me. I mean how can I see him sleeping with other women in a positive way if he himself mentions it always a) as a thread b) as something that is mandratory for him and what he values more than our relationship. I mean how can I see it positively when he says it will be either him sleeping with others or our break up? I mean how can I feel comfortable and secure in such a relationship? I said to him that, but he sais that I should know he would not leave me for another girl. but in the same time he says he would live me just to have sex with other girls? And he sais that he wants even sex with girls he wants no relatinship wit and even girls he does not like much but just feels the desire to sleep with? I mean what should I think about it, when he puts it that way?

I don't know what's the case with those girls, who dislike me. But now that you have mentioned it... He desires all the 3 girsl I don't get along with and when I mention some others we both like, as a potential date or sex partner, he seems to be hesistant or just starts saying that it will not work or that I will definitely get jealous over them too or start to not like them as soon as he starts meeting them.
I never thought of it before but now as you mentioned it it also starts to scary me. It really seems he is always looking for girls he knows I will have a problem with or he knows they with have a problem with me. He does not seem to pay attention to bisexuall girls in any way but only straight of whom he knows they won't ever be sexuall or intimate with me...
It's like I am also thinking of him and he is not thinking of me.

I remember a situation, which took place some time ago when we thought things are good between us(it is awkward to talk about but I guess it will give some clues. I don't know if it will be too intimate but it somethimg I have in mind till now)
We once ended with three of our friend together in bed. So there was I, my bf, S(a lesbian freind of ours), K(a straight male) and P(a straight female). I was having some 'fun' with S and K while my bf was with P. It was all spontanious so it came out K didn't have condoms and I remebered that I and bf had only one so I came to my bf wanting to ask him what to do and mayby make a quick walk to the drugstore to buy some, so we could all be protected. And then I saw he already was using our last one and he said he was so desparete that he had the chance to sleep with another woman besied me that he wasn't thinking about me being protected. And I felt very sad and mad at the time and it all went very bad from that moment. He was angry at me that I was angry that he din't thought of me while I was thinking of both of us.
From that moment I again started to feel insecure becouse he so easily forgot about me and my eventuall needs, and he started to freak out that I did not come to him to solve the 'condom problem' but to stop him from having sex with another woman.

Redpepper one more time. I know there are always two sides. And I know I have definitely made also many mistakes. I don't know if he will want to write something here. But maybe I will ask him if he will do so.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:54 AM
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Hullo Altea and good to hear from you again!

I have expressed my concern before and I do it again - the two of you, instead of a solid foundation for poly, seem to be engaged in a power struggle. For your bf, 'freedom' seems to be equated with license to go fuck anybody he feels like fucking at the time, and still being able to rely on you as the solid bedrock of his life. This makes me very wary of what his actual motivations for poly are. Right now, it reads that he is coming from a place of scarcity, not of sharing. Whatever he hears you say in what comes to your needs and what you expect from your relationship he automatically hears as 'there goes Altea again, trying to chain me down and stop me from living my life as I like it best'. As long as that tape is what gets played inside his head instead of actually listening to what you say, I see really no way to work on your issues.

I'm a bit at loss at what it is that you mean by 'not wanting monogamy'. Right now it reads that you would want to engage in some form of swinging, whereas he wants a 'no-holds-barred' open relationship. The way you describe him wanting to have sex even with women he does not like to me speaks of some real issues with sex and intimacy. Real freedom, to me, is the ability to choose - being addicted to cheating and sex and power games might masquerade as sexual freedom but in reality is everything but.

Specifically choosing women you have issues with as his sex partners send a clear message of not wanting polyamory. He wants to build distance between the two of you. Would it be beneficial to you to start to treating your bf mentally as a 'secondary'? Give him some of that distance he so craves, and explore connections independently of him. You might discover distance works wonders on your relationship and on your self-image as well.
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