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  #121  
Old 04-21-2011, 03:45 AM
Ilove2men Ilove2men is offline
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NYC, I thought the very same thing when I read that. It's deflection. There's that saying about doing the same thing and expecting different results. Contracts at this point are just setting everyone up for failure. I don't think either of you are stable enough to follow through. Until each of you can get ahold of yourselves you won't be able to break the cycle that you have both created.

I bowed out of posting on this board because ... Well I have no poly relationship to speak about. My poly is done, but I have continued to pop in and check on those I have grown to care about. It saddens me that I have experience in this all too familiar toxic cycle. Seeing a couple I have grown to look up to going through this I couldn't not post.
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  #122  
Old 04-21-2011, 06:41 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Here's the baseline reality.

There isn't a way for us to have NO contact without totally fucking over at least one child.

So, we don't have a choice but to make an agreement to not discuss the shit that sends us spiraling through the nasty, painful, b.s cycle we've gotten into.

Yes, we could fuck over the one child who would lose everything if we did that. However, that one child deserves better-and he's going to get it-if it kills me.

Yes, I meant that-if it KILLS me.

I'm not sending this boy back to his mother.
I'm not making him leave his siblings-the only people he's TRULY bonded to, just because he's not mine.

If I had to suffer rape EVERY SINGLE DAY OF MY LIFE for him to have the chances that he has now-becuase of me entering his life-I would.

Fortunately, I don't have to do that.

BUT, I do have to find a way to work around the issues in our lives and get along.
Stay in a poly dynamic? Not a requirement.
Stay married? Not a requirement.
Be lovers? Not a requirement.

Find a way to get along-that's a requirement and it has to happen RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

So, while I do understand what you are saying-no, I'm not taking the advice in full.

I found the only part I could take and used it.
We aren't discussing the issues between us unless we're with a therapist.

That means NOT AT ALL. No complaining, no bitching, no whining, no asking, no demanding.
It pretty much means "if you don't have anything nice to say, shut the fuck up" (not to you all, between he and I).

From what I gather from him-he thinks I'm dead on right on this topic. (there are a few things we have come to agree on implicitly over the years).

As for why I stay,
because to be flat honest-all of the things in that list are over and done. We've learned from them and we've grown from them and they aren't continuing.

My point in bringing them up wasn't to malign the man that Maca is today.
My point was that we ALL fucked up and we ALL need some grace.

Maca is struggling because he doesn't want to offer GG grace, but he has been willing to accept it for himself. That's self-rightous and it's wrong. Furthermore-he knows it is. Like it or not, he knows it's wrong. He just doesn't want it to be.

There is no doubt about the fact that I fucked Maca over by having the affair and I'm not even going to start defending myself over it. It was wrong, it was heartless and it was unfair. At the very least I could have simply said it was over, walked away and done what I thought I needed to do.
But I was selfish and I didn't go that route.

If Maca wants to be "just friends" and call it good on the marriage-so be it.
But, he still owes it to HIMSELF-to grant GG the grace he longs to have for himself. Because as long as he's holding a grudge, he can't FEEL that the grace has already been given.

As for who has done the most damage.
Who cares?
The damage was done.

I don't believe in "it's over".
There is no "over" unless you give up-and I don't give up.
So, while I respect the fact that other people believe that there is a point where you just have to walk away-I don't believe that, never have and if I ever do, that time isn't here yet. Thus, it's pointless to waste breath suggesting it.

Not that I don't grasp the heart of the suggestion, but the bottomline for me is that I know Maca's heart-and I know mine. Giving up isn't going to happen.
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  #123  
Old 04-21-2011, 04:04 PM
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SourGirl SourGirl is offline
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Good people do bad things. I hope you two can learn to forgive yourselves and each other.

You both strike me as good people. I really hope you both get to a point where you can choose to be happy instead of being right.

I agree with NYCindie, and Ilove2men,.... read her statement over and over until it truly sinks in. How will you know ? You might actually feel defeated for a bit. That would be a good sign,...surrender yourself to a different way of being, and thinking.

Maybe its the word 'contract'. It sounds so negative in trust. Like the beginning to the end, rather then the hope for a new beginning.

Might want to call it a 'agreement',...as to make sure in all the hussle and talk, that it is written out, so nobody forgets. (innocently, and while under stress) what they agreed to.

Less legal, more love.


Best wishes.
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  #124  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:11 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Sourgirl-between us, we didn't call it an anything.
But, how do you write online that you created a _________ that covers each other getting what they need FOR RIGHT NOW without a word. I chose contract because it covered that it was an agreement, deeper meaning to both of us than "agreement" normally means (they're commonly broken) and more signficaint to each of us in terms of importance.

Obviously I didn't write out every word.

But-the point was that we took the suggestions, created something that was workable within the limitations of our circumstances and agreed that we'd make it "law" for the next 6 months so that we can each get the space from the things we need space from (like him not having to deal with the romantic relationhip I have with GG-and me not having to fear that if we see each other it's goign to dissolve into an argument about GG).

Ironically-the one thing we've done that BOTH of us, GG and Mimi all thought was sane, rational and PRODUCTIVE (many things were ONE of the first two but not the last before this) seems to have set off a firestorm because I wrote about it.

The irony is-that we had to have SOME SORT OF agreement.
Even an agreement to not speak to each other requires an agreement.
Otherwise, one person keeps trying and the other continues to avoid which creates yet more drama.

We've made an agreement. It's not functional as a "lifetime plan". But it is functional for giving each of us a little space and distance from the conflict, bringing in an educated third party to help navigate through the issues we've been unable to resolve on our own, maintain stability for the kids AND the metamours as well as allowing us the chance to just relax....

FYI-we are good people. If he weren't a good people, I wouldn't be with him. If I weren't a good people, he wouldn't be with me.

That's the whole point-we both know we belong together, we both know we are good people. We just haven't figured out how to make it work smoothly. Kudos in that we're both willing to try.
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  #125  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:12 PM
Ilove2men Ilove2men is offline
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Yes, we have children also so I understand and did not mean absolutely no contact. I meant put the breaks on until both of you can better handle this. It only feeds the cycle and agreements will continue to be broken.
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  #126  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:17 PM
Ilove2men Ilove2men is offline
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oops we posted at the same time. That is really great LR.
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  #127  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:19 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I understood you.

That's why we made the agreement we made.

We agreed to maintain separate homes for at least 6 months, not talking about my relationship with GG, 1 day a week for no more than 2 hours to talk about our relationship issues, continue practicing the communication skills we've been learning-but using less "boiling" topics, working on our lists of what we want in life and marriage (that's for the therapist-so we CAN build a future), among other things.

But, the two biggest keys was agreeing to something that
isn't "every day shoving this shit down our throats",
isn't running away from it altogether and letting everything fall apart AND
isn't creating a neglected environment for the rest of the family.



So far, so good. We've had a couple days of talking-no argument, no tension, no battle. Mostly-because we know that there is a time and place to address the issues we're struggling with-but this isn't it.

Without knowing a problem WILL be addressed, each passing day creates more anxiety as it's NOT addressed.
If you try to address it every day-you have no time to "be".

So-both ways create more problems.
This one allows for not becoming anxious that shit won't be addressed, without ruining every moment.
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  #128  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:20 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Thanks Ilove2men.

FYI-I do remember you from when you were a regular on here.

We were talking about you actually, just a few weeks ago. (Maca and I)
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  #129  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:35 PM
Ilove2men Ilove2men is offline
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Yes, I read what was going on, but still didn't want to post on here and couldn't remember your email so I sent Maca a message on facebook. Hehe you brought me out of the dark. It just feels weird to post on here now, ya know. Your agreement sounds like the perfect way to handle this. Congrats on the grandbaby, btw. X)
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  #130  
Old 04-21-2011, 07:39 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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haha, lovingradiancess@gmail.com
I'm on facebook too. If you look at his page, and find the "friend" who has the huge back tattoo-that'd be mine.
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