Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 04-20-2011, 10:56 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 999
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rory View Post
Also, I am inclined to think "I choose the person who is not making me choose". As in, I choose the freedom to choose, if that makes sense.
Exactly! Because how do you know they're not going to put you in that position over and over again?
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 04-20-2011, 03:47 PM
MrFarFromRight's Avatar
MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Smack in the middle of The Spanish Revolution!
Posts: 483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rory View Post
Also, I am inclined to think "I choose the person who is not making me choose". As in, I choose the freedom to choose, if that makes sense.
I'm with you there! My first impulse on reading this thread's title was to answer: "If both of you are more comfortable with having a veto right, then that's your business." I can accept now that - using the poly definition of "veto" - that then disqualifies you from labelling your relationship "polyamory".

In my own case, I was in a poly relationship (long before the term was coined) for 6 1/2 years. When my GF told me that she wanted to "change the setting" - to commit ourselves to a monogamous relationship - I told her (I'm paraphrasing here): "Your decisions are your own. If you want to be mono, that's up to you. But I'm neither going to ask it of you or expect it of you. And I'm NOT going to be mono..."

I could live happily with only one sexual relationship going. (I'm living [fairly] happily with none at the present time...) But I refuse to limit somebody else' sexual freedom... or accept their right to limit mine.

She walked away from the relationship. But if she hadn't - and had continued to insist on monogamy - I'm sure that I would have walked away eventually.

Sure, she - as a person - was more important than any sexual principles that I might have. [And we continued to be good friends for 18 years after the split as a couple... until she decided to walk away from that friendship as well.] But continuing to sleep with her wasn't (at least, as far as I'm concerned...)
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 04-20-2011, 04:02 PM
Morningglory629's Avatar
Morningglory629 Morningglory629 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: PA
Posts: 727
Default

Rory and TP- the point is, don't you think, in any relationship the art of compromise needs to be practiced. I have studied politics for a long time and it is true that idealogues rarely succeed and almost never maintain a piece in play so to speak. Like politics, relationships are fluid, emotionally driven but based on a seemingly solid foundation of love. I say seemingly because even the definition of love can change. So like politics you cannot institute practices like veto unless you realize eventually it will be overturned and you will be out on your ear. Vetos do nothing but entrench resentment. Prohibitive stances are fanatical and off-putting in most cases- especially if it is in a supposedly loving relationship, i.e. one that exists of freewill in the first place.

The only thing we as individuals can do is realize our own purpose in life and not pin our happiness on a moving target. That said if we are happy with ourselves then why would we need to dictate or rule over anyone else in some effort to blame another for our happiness/unhappiness.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 04-20-2011, 04:27 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 999
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningglory629 View Post
Rory and TP- the point is, don't you think, in any relationship the art of compromise needs to be practiced. I have studied politics for a long time and it is true that idealogues rarely succeed and almost never maintain a piece in play so to speak. Like politics, relationships are fluid, emotionally driven but based on a seemingly solid foundation of love. I say seemingly because even the definition of love can change. So like politics you cannot institute practices like veto unless you realize eventually it will be overturned and you will be out on your ear. Vetos do nothing but entrench resentment. Prohibitive stances are fanatical and off-putting in most cases- especially if it is in a supposedly loving relationship, i.e. one that exists of freewill in the first place.

The only thing we as individuals can do is realize our own purpose in life and not pin our happiness on a moving target. That said if we are happy with ourselves then why would we need to dictate or rule over anyone else in some effort to blame another for our happiness/unhappiness.
Sorry MG, I don't quite follow. I don't think there's a way to compromise in a situation where one partner says, "It's them or me."

For us, I told Indigo from the get go that I wanted a non-monogamous relationship. If he were to change his mind, that would be the end of the relationship. Period. It would suck.

I've been in enough mono relationships to know that I am not a monogamous person. I will either cheat, or break up with the person to pursue other interests. The heartache of leaving a love who forces me to choose or says they can't be with me if I'm poly is nothing compared to the heartache I know I will eventually inflict on them if I allow myself to try and be something I'm not.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 04-20-2011, 05:27 PM
rory's Avatar
rory rory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 496
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningglory629 View Post
Vetos do nothing but entrench resentment. Prohibitive stances are fanatical and off-putting in most cases- especially if it is in a supposedly loving relationship, i.e. one that exists of freewill in the first place.
I think I agree with you there, and if I understand correctly with your whole post. Veto is very different from negotiating a compromise; the former just does not work for me (for the reasons you stated above), but the latter is essential.

I am definitely prepared to do very much to find solutions that work for everybody, and taking my partners' wishes into account. But that does stand for all the people I am in a relationship with, not only "the one that came first". That is also why I wanted to make sure that my husband was on board before starting a new relationship because from that point onwards my girlfriend's needs would be a part of the equation, too. For example, if I were to meet someone new at some point and wanted a relationship with them, I would definitely check that both of my existing partners would be ok with it.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 04-20-2011, 05:29 PM
Morningglory629's Avatar
Morningglory629 Morningglory629 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: PA
Posts: 727
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckerPete View Post
Sorry MG, I don't quite follow. I don't think there's a way to compromise in a situation where one partner says, "It's them or me."

For us, I told Indigo from the get go that I wanted a non-monogamous relationship. If he were to change his mind, that would be the end of the relationship. Period. It would suck.

I've been in enough mono relationships to know that I am not a monogamous person. I will either cheat, or break up with the person to pursue other interests. The heartache of leaving a love who forces me to choose or says they can't be with me if I'm poly is nothing compared to the heartache I know I will eventually inflict on them if I allow myself to try and be something I'm not.
I don't disagree. I think vetoes within the relationship are actually anti-relationship because it negates the ability to talk it through and come up with a satisfactory solution for both. Veto itself is anti-compromise because it is finite and non-negotiable, "the answer is no, and don't ask again". Now what you're talking about is completely different. Mono/poly acceptance goes beyond the realm of veto power. And obviously if there is no relationship because mono does not accept poly then the idea of a veto is moot altogether. Follow? Am I rambling? Disregard if I am.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 04-20-2011, 05:34 PM
rory's Avatar
rory rory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 496
Default

^I think we were writing at the same time (my post is the last on page 5), but it seems that I did understand you correctly, and I completely agree with you on what you wrote here as well.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 04-20-2011, 06:00 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kansas City Metro
Posts: 2,186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
I also have a principle I've always stuck to so far, and that is that if someone ever tells me "it's me or X, you've got to pick", I pick X, no matter what or who X is. Or really, it's more of a matter of "I don't pick you", because sometimes I pick neither. But I just can't stand ultimatums like that, they feel controlling and disrespectful of both me and X.
If somebody tries to dictate my behavior in the fashion of an ultimatum, then I have a strong abreaction. Homey don't play that game.

That's different, however, than somebody saying "I see X happening and I won't accept that. I'll be leaving because of that." They are free to decide what they do in response to changes in the situation.

It all boils down to whether they're choosing something for themselves or trying to force their choice on me.
__________________
When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 04-20-2011, 06:21 PM
BrigidsDaughter's Avatar
BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 822
Default

We no longer have a veto, though Wendigo and I have both volunteered to cool things down between us when Wolf or Pretty Lady were struggling. That being said, I have used veto once and only once and it was because a the time Wolf was incapable of making the decision to do what was necessary to keep himself, us, and our son safe (he was not working and was the primary care giver at the time). The woman he was seeing at the time convinced him to stop taking his bi-polar medication and he was [this] close to having a psychotic break..... I couldn't watch him put our son though another one, so I told her that it was over between them, kicked her out of our house, then told him that he could go stay with his mother until he was back on his meds and stable. It hurt to hear him tell me that he believed her, that he wasn't really bi-polar and that all of his problems started when I'd tricked him into marrying me by making him think I was pregnant (mind you I didn't get pregnant until we'd been married almost 3 months, but he wasn't thinking clearly). It took 3 weeks of isolation at his mom's for him to snap out of it enough to go back on his meds and 2 more weeks before I'd let him come back home.

Do I regret using the Veto? NO. Do I regret how I treated her at the time? Yes.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 04-20-2011, 06:31 PM
Morningglory629's Avatar
Morningglory629 Morningglory629 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: PA
Posts: 727
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
That's different, however, than somebody saying "I see X happening and I won't accept that. I'll be leaving because of that." They are free to decide what they do in response to changes in the situation.

It all boils down to whether they're choosing something for themselves or trying to force their choice on me.
yes, agreed
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
agreements, contracts, control issues, envy, jealous, jealousy, metamour concerns, new to poly, nre, relationship dynamics, relationship issues, secondaries, secondary, sex, veto, veto policy, veto power, vetos

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:43 AM.