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  #241  
Old 04-19-2011, 06:35 PM
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This isn't illegal, is it? Could a well-cared for child really be taken away from its two loving parents just because there was a third person involved?
Up in here reasons that can form the grounds for putting a family under 'surveillance' by the Child Welfare Office are things like 'deviant sexual practices' and 'irregular family life', 'frequent over-night visitors that are not part of the family' etc. The wordings are very vague and leave A LOT of room for interpretation as to what amounts to a threat to a child's wellbeing.

Get to know the Child Protection Acts in the state you live VERY CAREFULLY. They are built on a very restrictive nuclear heterosexual family model and child welfare officers are not always the most sympathetic people in what comes to alternative family forms because of the ideology their work is based on.
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  #242  
Old 04-19-2011, 08:52 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Tonberry, I'm curious and alarmed by what you said about people worrying their children could get taken away. Has this happened? This isn't illegal, is it? Could a well-cared for child really be taken away from its two loving parents just because there was a third person involved?
Sadly, it has happened. Seems to be along the lines of "the parents are obviously irresponsible and can't take care of a child" or "it's traumatizing for children to witness such depravity" and things like that.
I don't know how often it has happened or how high the risk is, but I know it has played a part in a lot of people having children or not, or being open or not.
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  #243  
Old 04-19-2011, 09:34 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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It really makes a HUGE difference where you live and who you already associate with.

For example, with our family, the whole family is very supportive and our state is already "the black sheep" of the U.S. in many ways. Many people who move here, do so to get away from the more closed-minded lifestyle expectations and live a more "out of sync with the norm" life.

BUT-it certainly pays to know the risks before you bring an innocent child into them, cover your bases, get your ducks in a row etc.
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  #244  
Old 04-19-2011, 09:37 PM
Rachelina Rachelina is offline
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Wow....I had no idea that could happen. I did look up my state's Child Protection Act and didn't see anything that would apply to polyamory. As far as I can tell, the state only gets involved in cases of abuse or neglect, but I'll read it more thoroughly later. There was a section called "Household Members" but it was repealed in 1994; I'm curious what it said.

Loving Radiance, it's so good to hear we're not the only ones attempting this kind of arrangement. Maybe I'll have questions for you as things develop further. Thanks everyone!
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  #245  
Old 04-19-2011, 09:48 PM
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Loving Radiance, it's so good to hear we're not the only ones attempting this kind of arrangement. Maybe I'll have questions for you as things develop further. Thanks everyone!
You're more than welcome to ask me anything. All of my kids have had odd parenting arrangements.
My sister and I raised the oldest alone for the first 6 years. When I married Maca, he became a third parent to her and my sister and I became additional parents to my stepson who was 2.
The youngest boy has had 4 parents in the household his whole life. He's 11. He's been raised with his dad, myself, my sister and my boyfriend as his parents.

Then, the baby, she's the bio-child of boyfriend and I, from home done "in vitro" process. (no sex).

All of them have called me mom, Maca dad, and GG by his given name+"ey", they call Mimi "auntie". But, the way they relate to all of us is as parents.

From a parenting standpoint we're definitely a quad.

It's been a GODSEND at times.
One thing we have managed to do very well is parenting the kids together.


(ages 19, 15, 11, soon to be 4)
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  #246  
Old 04-20-2011, 01:59 AM
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Mohegan Mohegan is offline
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Originally Posted by Rachelina View Post
Wow....I had no idea that could happen. I did look up my state's Child Protection Act and didn't see anything that would apply to polyamory. As far as I can tell, the state only gets involved in cases of abuse or neglect, but I'll read it more thoroughly later. There was a section called "Household Members" but it was repealed in 1994; I'm curious what it said.

Loving Radiance, it's so good to hear we're not the only ones attempting this kind of arrangement. Maybe I'll have questions for you as things develop further. Thanks everyone!
The things is, like others have said, it doesn't have to include household members for it to still be a reason to remove the children. You need one person who feels what you are doing is unsafe to the kids in anyway, they need one person at child Welfare to listen to them. One person that agrees with the complaint and your kids are gone, then it's up to a judge.

Which is why it all depends on where you are and the type of people you associate with.

Also keep in mind that some states will atuomaticaly give paternity to the spouse and to contest that you have to go to court. Doesn't matter what you put on the Birth Certificate, in some states, simply being married constitues paternity. So if a male partner other than a husband were to be the father and want legal guardianship, a paternity test and a judge would have to happen.

When I did my Child Welfare training we were taught to really look at the situation and the child. To acknowledge that different cultures/family styles exist and are not neccesarily damaging. Doesn't mean that everyone will see it that way though.
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  #247  
Old 04-20-2011, 11:40 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachelina
Tonberry, I'm curious and alarmed by what you said about people worrying their children could get taken away. Has this happened? This isn't illegal, is it? Could a well-cared for child really be taken away from its two loving parents just because there was a third person involved?
Sadly, it has happened. Seems to be along the lines of "the parents are obviously irresponsible and can't take care of a child" or "it's traumatizing for children to witness such depravity" and things like that.
I don't know how often it has happened or how high the risk is, but I know it has played a part in a lot of people having children or not, or being open or not.
Not only sexual matters. And sometimes it really depends not just on the local laws but on who is your Child Welfare officer. I know of a family in Ireland who were accused of burning their child with lit cigarettes. He was taken into care. The parents went to court and argued that those weren't old cigarette burns: they were chilblains! (Remember that this is in cold, wet Ireland.) The child backed up their version and obviously wanted to return home. If they were bad parents - the kind to put out lit cigarettes on their son - why did the State allow them to maintain custody of their other children???

It would have meant "losing face" for the officer to admit that she had made a mistake. And - apparently - for the State to admit that it had put its trust in someone who made such mistakes. So - to save face!!! - a child was kept in care FOR YEARS... until that Child Welfare officer retired, and the boy was allowed by her successor to return to his family.

Of course it helped to complicate the matter that the family were working class, alternative life-style, political activists...

The bottom line is: the State can do any thing they bloody well want. If that is going to stop you from living the life you choose to live, that's one way they win (by default). Sheeple...

Just be aware... and be careful.
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  #248  
Old 04-24-2011, 07:38 PM
Rachelina Rachelina is offline
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Wow, I'm still amazed that it's even a remote possibility that a child could be taken away because she has three loving parents instead of two. Unbelievable. Really I had been more interested in advice on the emotional dynamics of this kind of situation, but I'm glad you all opened my eyes to the legal aspects, because it had never even crossed my mind. We are in New Hampshire and people here, while conservative, also have a very libertarian streak which I hope will be on our side.
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  #249  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:14 PM
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Lemondrop Lemondrop is offline
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Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
The bottom line is: the State can do any thing they bloody well want. If that is going to stop you from living the life you choose to live, that's one way they win (by default). Sheeple...

Just be aware... and be careful.
Yes, one can argue that you must stand up for your rights or they will be taken away from you. But, in my opinion, when I chose to have children, I chose to take responsibility for their health and well-being. Having them placed in a foster care home is not to their benefit (I find it important to point out that I was abused by a state-certified foster parent who had MANY ON-RECORD complaints that the state ignored, and she was a foster parent for many years after I became an adult), so I must temper my decisions with the knowledge that I am responsible for keeping them in a safe home until they are adults. In the mean time, I try to educate them to stand up for themselves while taking care of the people to whom they are responsible. Sadly, life is not black and white, and sometimes you must make compromises for the ones you love. If it looks like a fight that might end up with my children taken away, then we will find another way. *I can fight this fight when it will not harm the ones I love and who have no ability to walk away from the fight.*
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  #250  
Old 05-11-2011, 12:11 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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Default Taking a break from poly to start a family

I found something RP mentioned in another thread (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9721) very intriguing. She described how she and PN took a break from poly while they were having their baby. So my question is; is this something a lot of people do? Taking a break from poly while trying to get with child and rearing them?

I can understand that dating with a newborn is logistically difficult, but this is actually a second time I hear a couple making a conscious decision to stop exploring poly alltogether when the children are very young.

I'm interested in hearing people's experiences as to dating/not dating while having a child in a (previously) poly couple.
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