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  #11  
Old 04-12-2011, 12:20 PM
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But instead, I got an email about how he believes that I don't have adequate deception skills and that means he's done.
Woot ? Are good deception skills desirable in someone you date? I thought it was the exact opposite!

Without knowing the back story, Mr. O doesn't seem all there.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:45 PM
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Ha, thanks. I've had that thought as well. I feel like perhaps he's a tad delusional or he's making up excuses. Either way, it doesn't inspire trust or respect.

Oh and I believe the back story can be found at "how to be friends with an ex" in the general discussion section.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:27 PM
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I've decided to give a summary of "the backstory" regarding O and I. Just in case you haven't read about it and aren't sure of what I'm talking about when I refer to it. And since O isn't here to give his side, I'll do my best to present his perspective objectively.

O and I became friends last february through Krav Maga. He was engaged to A. I'd never dated anyone and was in the process of leaving a cult-like church. After much beating around the bush, we began officially dating in June a week before their wedding. When we established the relationship, we laid out some expectations regarding who should know and how to act around certain groups of people.

On his side,

he emphasized how A's parents/family couldn't find out. He initially told me that he didn't want to come out to his friends (non Krav Maga) given the proximity to the wedding. We decided, at the time, to remain in the closet regarding the people we train with. No specific expectations were laid down about that particular group.

I didn't want my parents or any of the Christian circle I knew to find out. Other than that, I was pretty open.

As we began to settle into things, I remember being a bit surprised about how flirtatious he was at training. It was a bit of a mixed message from, we're not going to tell them to we're going to dangle it in their faces. He would always tell me to relax, that I didn't need to worry so much about people finding out. For instance, playing intense games of footsie while eating dinner with the in-laws. Him sneaking a grope while his in-laws weren't looking. At training, he made no pretense, regularly bantering (sexually), groping me in front of people. That sort of thing. And I mean, the kind of flirting that makes people roll their eyes and think, for the love of God, get a room!

At one point, I asked him, what do I do if some one from training confronts me or us about this? Maybe they saw us doing something or just figured it out. His answer was, "it depends." According to him, it depended on the person and what information they had. But he didn't really give me any kind of plan or straight answer.

So we'd been dating for eight months when I was hanging out with a friend from training, Connor. No interest there, just friends. I said something and Connor began asking me a lot of questions and I asked him to drop it and he kept going. Finally, when it was obvious to me that he pretty much knew, I was like, ok, fine, we're together. I explained that we weren't having an affair and I wasn't trying to break up their marriage. I swore him to secrecy and then the next day I email O and told him briefly what happened.

Aside: earlier this year, O had a party and Connor drank way too much and puked all over O's bathroom. And Connor wasn't known for being the most discrete person at training.

Fast forward a few days and over text message, O tells me that I have betrayed him and he wants to go back to being "just friends". He says he can't trust me and I've endangered his Krav Maga
career.

I processed all of this and met with him and was like, hold up! You never told me that you expected me to deny no matter what. I was pressured into talking about it. And Connor is a friend. He's not going to do anything with the information. Besides everybody kind of knows anyway. I argued that this was more of a communication issue that a trust one. He hadn't communicated his expectations fully so it wasn't fair to make that huge of a decision with out giving me a chance.

His response was that he sees a difference between knowing and suspecting. If some one has no evidence, ie a direct confession, email transcripts, dna, then they can only suspect. He claimed that he didn't care if some one suspected. As long as they didn't know. I pointed out that some one can ruin some one based on rumor and heresy. I pointed out that we'd acted in a way that raised a LOT of suspicion and people would be able to make trouble based on that. He said that if some one were to do that, that he would basically manipulate and intimidate them into stopping. I say that's overestimating your ability to control the world.

At the end of that conversation, he told me that he understood that we'd miscommunicated a bit but he just needed to end it anyway and he vaguely cited risk and time management. He said multiple times that he forgave me and wasn't angry but that he was very hurt. Earlier in the conversation, it had seemed that we'd resolved the whole Connor 'scandal' so I didn't think that that was central. In addition, I thought to myself, that I was uncomfortable with some of his "methods" for staying in the closet.

For instance, my parents would stop supporting me financially if they found out. So I'd work hard to keep them from finding out. Those are big consequences. But my friends, who care about me, who let me make my own choices, find out, I don't really feel it's that bad. It's a risk you take in a relationship like this.

Fast forward some more, he sent an apology email, just being like I always had good intentions, I'm sorry that you're hurt, I hope we can be friends.

I responded, asking him to really explain himself and stop bullshitting me. I asked him to take responsibility for his actions.

He sent me a response, opening with a sorry, I could have handled this better and then took the rest of the letter to explain how I'm not good enough at deceiving people. He basically said that I can't maintain the level of secrecy and security he desires. That I accidentally betrayed him and Connor is an "immature and irresponsible punk" and his "enemy forever." (Connor, although not perfect, has apologized for his role in this and was the one who has kept me on suicide watch at his house while I really needed it) O has told me that because of me our teacher may prohibit him from training? which honestly, everyone that I've asked about it has been like, that's ridiculous. And the other thing is that no one that now knows has gone and blabbed about it. O's training hasn't been touched.

At this point, I've stepped out of negotiations. O refused to organize a temporary training schedule so i'm only able to go one day a week. I'm hoping to attempting going back to classes where he is by the end of the month. I don't yet know if I'll feel comfortable interacting more than is necessary. And I have to be careful not to endanger my emotional health, as I am still in a rather fragile state.

So there it is, I hope that is a reasonably fair account of the events. I have tried to understand his logic and explain even if I do not agree with it.
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  #14  
Old 04-13-2011, 10:30 AM
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Thank you for sharing, Ray!

I admire your effort in trying to present the situation as objectively as possible. However, I must say;

1) This guy is toxic.
2) He more than likely suffers from some form of personality disorder that isn't likely to go away.
3) Run run RUN! To the hills!

Are there any other groups in your area which you could join for training? I think it's shite he can force you out of your circle of friends that way, but for emotional health reasons, it just might be best to put him on strict avoidance list for an indefinite period of time until you are absolutely sure you can face him and not fall under his spell again.
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Old 04-14-2011, 06:12 AM
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As much as I try to justify everything that's happened, I keep hearing a little voice that tells me to keep him far. I have a tendency to be too trusting and forgiving when it would be more appropriate to set up strict boundaries. I've given him lots of chances to 'have a heart.' And he hasn't taken any of them. It makes me really, really sad.

On a happier note, I had a few interesting encounters today. I take the train home from work and a coworkers rode with me. One of them got off at my stop and it turns out that he immigrated from Mali, where I'm looking to do an internship. Small world! He was a really interesting person and offered to set me up with contacts if I needed some.

One of my training friends came and trained with me apart from the training with O. It was fairly productive and we found out that we're both kinksters. I think he's the first kinky friend I've had in awhile. We had a funny discussion about figging.

I forget if I've mention F at all. Otherwise known in my head as AbsolutelyDropDeadGorgeousMan. I trained with him last week. We're getting together on Friday. I've had a crush on F for months. O knew about but I never pursued it. I know that I'm not ready to get into a relationship right now and we're just training now anyway. But the more I hang around him, the more I get all ooshy gooshy and totally infatuated with him. And the thought that I could actually be in a primary relationship (with anyone!). It just feels to good to be true. And on his facebook profile, he indicates an interest in Shibari? So maybe he's kinky? The martial arts community seems to be full of kinky people, so it would make sense. Who knows...
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  #16  
Old 04-14-2011, 08:39 AM
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And on his facebook profile, he indicates an interest in Shibari? So maybe he's kinky? The martial arts community seems to be full of kinky people, so it would make sense. Who knows...
As someone who just recently got her long-awaited Shibari You Can Use -book through the mail, I wish you luck .

Good to know you are playing the field.
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:47 PM
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Thanks, BlackUnicorn

Trained with F this morning. I think we were both a bit out of it. My lips are all cut up from getting punched in the mouth. I got down to the locker room and there was all this dried blood and grossness. So much for trying to make a good impression, ha. It's a good thing neither of us has AIDS. There was blood on his shirt, my gloves, my face etc... Training with him is good though because he's way better than me, so it's helping me to pinpoint more of my weaknesses. Right now, however, I just need to find the vaseline.

I'm going to go to a TNG movie night tonight. And if I can find a sponsor, I may get to go to my first play party tomorrow. I'm a little nervous but I think it'd be cool to try out the kink scene here and see if I find some new friends or things I enjoy.

Tomorrow is a belt test and I decided that it's best if I don't go. I'm not really ready to see O. So, instead of sitting at home and feeling left out, I signed up for a gardening workshop about how to garden year round. I've been wanting to learn more about gardening for awhile now so I'm excited to see what I glean. I'd really like to grow my own herbs. Maybe some basil, rosemary, cilantro...

I think it could be an exciting weekend.

Last edited by ray; 04-15-2011 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:23 PM
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Wow! This was an amazing weekend. On Friday, I went a TNG movie night, sort of munch-like. I really enjoyed myself and felt at home. While I was there, I was able to get invited to a play party for later.

Saturday morning, I had fun at the gardening class. I think I'm going to try and start composting and see if I can get a little herb garden growing. I love to cook and having fresh herbs would be so amazing. They can be kind of pricey at the store. Especially basil. It's ridiculously expensive.

I had an amazing time at the party. It was a great environment and I felt comfortable. There was an orientation before hand and I'd meet some people at the movie night, so I didn't feel totally new. I did a lot of observing and socializing which was really interesting. I played a bit with a Tens unit and did suspension bondage for the first time. Overall, it was a great first party and I'm really excited to go again sometime. It felt like the most natural thing in the world and I'm glad I finally worked up the courage to seek it out.

I met a guy the movie night and then we hung out for most of the party and he drove me home afterwards. Everyone kept asking if we came together. I like him but for one, I'm not really ready to jump into anything and I don't know that I have a huge interest in being with him. It's like something is missing. And I have a huge crush on F. I'll probably need to let T (the new guy) know that I'm just going to stay in my own limbo land for awhile. But I'd love to get to know him in the meantime.

Then, this morning, way too early after being up most of the night, I went shooting with some friends from Krav Maga. I got to use a semi-automatic that I really liked and my shooting is improving. My skill was not as good with the pistol so that's something I want to work on. After shooting we went to lunch.

Overall a really fantabulous weekend. I feel the happiest I've felt in a long time.
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Old 04-18-2011, 07:13 AM
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Ray, I could seriously do you. Herb gardens, suspension bondage AND guns? Now it's my turn to swoon.

So good to hear you are feeling better and got to play a little. I've yet to go to the local munch but already know a few people there so it will be considerably less intimidating if/when I finally go.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:36 PM
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Tehe, I'm flattered. I hope you get a chance make it to a munch. I loved just hanging out with kinky people. It feels like there's less I have to explain about myself or certain things that they just get.

On a more serious note, my top priority in therapy has been learning to love myself. And the more I've been exploring my interests and allowing myself to be what I want to be, I'm starting to find myself a lot more like-able.

So, my social life has positively exploded since this weekend. I have a sushi date on Saturday, coffee on friday and negotiations to do some wax play at some point in the near future. I feel like men are knocking down my door to hang out with me/play with me (BDSM sense). I'm so not used to this.

Oddly, going on dates makes me incredibly anxious. One reason that I almost never go on dates. They scare the shit out of me. It made it easy with O, we never went on dinner dates alone together. A always came too. I remember for Valentines, I really wanted to go on a date and he said no and I was crushed. I'm going with T, the guy I connected with this weekend. He seems very sweet, men just make me super nervous, esp. once the word date is said or implied. Not to mention, I'm in the midst of finals. Stress, anyone? But I will try to stay calm. *breathes deeply*

The idea of being in a relationship by myself, ie a primary is also terrifying. I'm not sure what it would feel like. Other than scary. O was my first boyfriend, really so I don't know what it's like to date someone without being the third wheel. For some reason, it felt safer having someone else involved.
And this saturday, I'm going to see O for the first time in ages. Believe me, if I never had to see him again, I'd be just fine. Unfortunately...I have to face his existence sooner or later. I'm just afraid of how seeing him will make me feel. I've made so much progress, I don't want it all to be ruined.
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