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  #61  
Old 04-02-2011, 11:28 AM
bella123456 bella123456 is offline
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I know this is an old thread, I just have one last question...

I don't understand why a government of a developed country fails to provide health care to it's people.

It feels like one of the most basic of human rights.

Was it there once and was taken away ?
Or, was it not established in the first place ?

And, do people fight for it, or have they given up fighting ?

What's the story ?
Appreciate it folks....looking to understand this place...
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  #62  
Old 04-02-2011, 11:31 AM
bella123456 bella123456 is offline
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And, what do you think of that film "Inside Job " ?

I'm rattled to the bone..
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  #63  
Old 04-02-2011, 02:11 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bella123456 View Post
I know this is an old thread, I just have one last question...

I don't understand why a government of a developed country fails to provide health care to it's people.

It feels like one of the most basic of human rights.

Was it there once and was taken away ?
Or, was it not established in the first place ?

And, do people fight for it, or have they given up fighting ?

What's the story ?
Appreciate it folks....looking to understand this place...
Fear of communism.

People in this country who don't want state or federal health care think it will take away their freedom to choose their own health care provider.

Of course, they are willing to pay taxes for state funded public schooling, fire fighters, police, road and bridge work, prisons, etc etc.

It's hypocritical and just plain stupid, IMO. Luckily I live in Massachusetts where we do have state funded health care (we are nicknamed Taxachusetts), and thank god we do, because i have a young adult mentally ill daughter who'd probably be dead by now if she didnt have state health insurance.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 58, living with:
miss pixi, 37, who is dating (NRE):
Master, 32
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  #64  
Old 04-02-2011, 02:30 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Well this is a topic that is close to my heart. Coming from the proverbial gutters with a family that abused their bodies with food. And myself being a conservative. I can clearly see both sides of the coin.

As a, now, successful healthy person who uses health care very little and can afford extended health care through work I can understan the hesitation for public health care.

Excluding people who are "naturally" sick. Why do I have to pay for drugs abusers, long term damaged alcoholics, pay for the rising obesity rate and on top of it all, peope who in general care little for the health care system they are clearly abusing? Why are my taxes going into a system that is clearly encouraging poor health choices instead of going towards forcing better health choices. There is so much abuse that when people with real problems walk in they are delayed in their procedures, and some procedures are delayed months in order to have room for people who created their own problems.

Not to mention, our system for example, is losing some great doctors to the states. Your guys actually pay them, our system I believe, on a point system based on how many pee they can jam into their rooms. So we end up with good hearted doctors but not always the best skilled.

I think there is an answer that fits in between but like all things political, the middle ground wont satisfy the right wingers or left wingers. The bleeding hearts will cry foul that I can walk in and pay for surgery while they have to wait, and the pure blood right wingers will scream bloody murder that they are still funding peoples poor choices and covering health care for everyone (aka a high level of selfishness)

In the end I will always choose universal health care, but it has it's flaws. Big ones. It just happens to be better than no coverage. If both sides would put down their rose colored glasses we might actually find a system that works both fiscally and be socially responsible.

Last edited by Ariakas; 04-02-2011 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Faking iPad grrrr
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  #65  
Old 04-02-2011, 02:48 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Keeping in mind Ari is from Canada...
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 58, living with:
miss pixi, 37, who is dating (NRE):
Master, 32
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  #66  
Old 04-02-2011, 02:51 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Keeping in mind Ari is from Canada...
Sorry I guess I could have been more clear. I am definitely giving the perspective of someone living within the system currently.

Oh one other positive about our health care, and I am not sure why this is, but our drugs are wayyyy cheaper. Significantly so. Its shocking the difference between our two couNtries. I am not sure if that is tariffs or the differences in health care. But it really helps
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  #67  
Old 04-02-2011, 02:58 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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BTW, I take offense at your assertion that alcoholics and drug abusers "create their own health problems" and therefore don't deserve health care. My daughter has borderline personality disorder and one of her issues is a compulsion to mask her extreme anxiety by self medicating. She has lived in 3 sober houses. One of the directors told me that most of the ppl in her house had mental health issues, which made them turn to alcohol or substances.
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 58, living with:
miss pixi, 37, who is dating (NRE):
Master, 32
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  #68  
Old 04-02-2011, 03:08 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Fear of communism.

People in this country who don't want state or federal health care think it will take away their freedom to choose their own health care provider.

Of course, they are willing to pay taxes for state funded public schooling, fire fighters, police, road and bridge work, prisons, etc etc.

It's hypocritical and just plain stupid, IMO. Luckily I live in Massachusetts where we do have state funded health care (we are nicknamed Taxachusetts), and thank god we do, because i have a young adult mentally ill daughter who'd probably be dead by now if she didnt have state health insurance.
I don't think it's so much the fear of communism anymore (at least for most of us), but the fact that the many of us just don't have that much faith in goverments ability to handle it effectively. The system as it stands SUCKS, but nothing they have proposed so far shows any hope of things actually getting better. Part of the problem is that it's the politicians are in charge of creating a new system.

I currently have a bare bones insurance, so I usually tell the doctors that I don't have insurance and want the cash price. It usually gets knocked down to 1/2 what the insurance companies are charged, and for office visits, that's less than my copay. The whole thing is a big racket right now. Hopsital/doctors over or double charging the insurance companies, insurance companies deciding not to pay for necessary stuff and then raising our rates 25% every year. The insurance companies want you to use their "prefered providers", but if I pay cash, I can usually get it cheaper by going somewhere not on the insurance company list. How many people call around to the different hospitals and actually ask how much an X-Ray is? I had to do it when I had no X-Ray coverage, the "prefered hospital" was twice what the others were charging. I can just immagine it getting worse when the goverment gets involved.

Opps, sorry for the rant.

Taxachusettes, I've heard that. My parents lived there for 5 years when my dad was in the Air Force, 40+ years ago (I was born there). Welfare recipients made more money than he did as an officer.
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  #69  
Old 04-02-2011, 03:14 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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When I had my blood clots about 10 yrs ago, (deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary emboli) my ex and I were in between health insurance co's because he was changing jobs. My hosp stay of 3 days cost $60,000 cash self pay. Luckily my parents paid half that. It took me over 2 yrs to pay off the rest, even tho my ex was then making good money. If I'd had health insurance, like the plan I do now, it wouldve been $150 co-pay for the ER and $40 for each specialist I saw.

Bit of a difference there.

I tried to work with all the doctors to get a break because I didnt have insurance, but didnt have much luck.
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 58, living with:
miss pixi, 37, who is dating (NRE):
Master, 32

Last edited by Magdlyn; 04-02-2011 at 03:16 PM.
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  #70  
Old 04-02-2011, 04:17 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
When I had my blood clots about 10 yrs ago, (deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary emboli) my ex and I were in between health insurance co's because he was changing jobs. My hosp stay of 3 days cost $60,000 cash self pay. Luckily my parents paid half that. It took me over 2 yrs to pay off the rest, even tho my ex was then making good money. If I'd had health insurance, like the plan I do now, it wouldve been $150 co-pay for the ER and $40 for each specialist I saw.

Bit of a difference there.

I tried to work with all the doctors to get a break because I didnt have insurance, but didnt have much luck.
I was most definitely not talking about hospital stays and emergencies. I was refering to standard stuff, like when the kids are sick and such, just normal office visits. My kid needed an X-Ray to rule out a break, one place wanted over $200 (with no cash break) while another was $80 cash. The doctors office I go to charges $45 cash per visit, but will charge the insurance company $100, so my portion is $50, if I let them bill it. I'm just way more aware of how much the everyday stuff costs now.
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