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  #11  
Old 04-01-2011, 05:36 PM
pheonixaise pheonixaise is offline
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Agreed. There is certainly an amount of anger here. However, we have talked with each other about it last night actually, and come up with a rather decent compromise I believe ^^

Basically, we have decided that her need for sexual expression and NRE may be focused in a day to day lifestyle through other means. Namely, through the fostering of animals and through a home daycare. Turns out, she feels that making those new connections and having something to focus on may be all she needs. However, on vacations to places such as Beltane, Pennsic, and other such camping trips where poly is readily available and accepted by all involved, such adventures will not affect the stability of my life, nor will it leave her with no outlet for her free nature.

This compromise is a wonderful breakthrough in my opinion, because it eliminates most of the anxiety I feel about having to deal with emotion crisis on a somewhat daily basis. I over analyze things, I realize that, and I do have alot of (albeit justified) vehement anger involved through the pains I have suffered (I've done things such as driven her 45 miles to see a boyfriend, where I sat on the front porch while she had sex with him) throughout our relationship.

Wonderful news! A lot of your suggestions helped us come to this conclusion guys! I also wanted to say that I never meant to depict her as in any way cruel or a bad person. She is, with the exception of my daughter, the most wonderful person I've ever met!
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2011, 05:50 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Originally Posted by pheonixaise View Post
Basically, we have decided that her need for sexual expression and NRE may be focused in a day to day lifestyle through other means. Namely, through the fostering of animals and through a home daycare.
If she is a stay at home mom she is probably in desperate need of regular ADULT contact. I don't quite understand how giving her more children to take care of and pets will do anything but make the need for adult contact away from kids worse. You mentioned that she as a stay at home mom has all the "free time" she can get. I'm sorry, this was so rude and disrespectful to all stay at home moms who WORK THEIR ASS OFF not only the 12 hours their partners are at work, but all the way through bed time as well. It sounds like you have no respect for her contribution to your household. I find it really sad that you aren't willing to watch the kid or hire a sitter a few nights a week so she can get some outside adult contact (even if it's just going bowling or such with a group of friends).
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2011, 05:58 PM
pheonixaise pheonixaise is offline
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If she is a stay at home mom she is probably in desperate need of regular ADULT contact. I don't quite understand how giving her more children to take care of and pets will do anything but make the need for adult contact away from kids worse. You mentioned that she as a stay at home mom has all the "free time" she can get. I'm sorry, this was so rude and disrespectful to all stay at home moms who WORK THEIR ASS OFF not only the 12 hours their partners are at work, but all the way through bed time as well. It sounds like you have no respect for her contribution to your household. I find it really sad that you aren't willing to watch the kid or hire a sitter a few nights a week so she can get some outside adult contact (even if it's just going bowling or such with a group of friends).
Oh, my goodness, you're right! That was terrible phrasing on my part! Please forgive me! She works incredibly hard at taking care of the baby. I offer to do that all the time ^^ She goes out and has regular adult contact with friends of hers consistently. I'm really sorry about that, I honestly meant no offense. I fully support the contribution she makes to the household, and anything I said to the otherwise was incredibly poor phrasing on my part!

However, I must add that she is in fact able to go out with the baby whenever she would like, spends plenty of time with other parents and friends, and also goes to her own social gatherings. It is by her choice that she takes the baby with her on most of these ventures, due to our agreed (her suggested) attachment parenting style. Previously, it was entirely her choice to take the baby on dates, and to the homes of her boyfriends. She wanted them to know that she was a parent, and that that came first. She would only engage in physical activity once the baby fell asleep.

I am really very sorry for the misunderstanding. That was terrible of me. I need to be more careful of my phrasing. It's no excuse but I have aspergers, and so sometimes I can be crass without meaning to be so, but that was just awful of me. Please forgive me!
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2011, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by pheonixaise View Post
I work nearly full time, and go to school full time. I also have a child. I don't have that free time. My fiancee however, is a stay at home mom and has all the free time she can ask for. A schedule is almost null and void. I'm afraid I'm just not willing to provide for someone who is only there 5 nights a week when I get home, and then I have to watch the baby on my own, after a 12 hour day the other two nights.
So, you require her to be there seven nights a week, is that it? After a full day's work as a homemaker and mother? Bit of a dictatorship, no?

Yes, I too found this part of your complaint unreasonable, and also wonder if fostering animals and fucking around at Pennsic will really help her. Why not a committed secondary bf for her, who also cares about her as much as you do? Instead of an "outlet" of random sex with whomever she meets at an event? Wouldn't that be a more loving thing for you to be okay with? Wouldn't it be best for your daughter if you both had such stability?
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  #15  
Old 04-01-2011, 06:16 PM
pheonixaise pheonixaise is offline
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So, you require her to be there seven nights a week, is that it? After a full day's work as a homemaker and mother? Bit of a dictatorship, no?

Yes, I too found this part of your complaint unreasonable, and also wonder if fostering animals and fucking around at Pennsic will really help her. Why not a committed secondary bf for her, who also cares about her as much as you do? Instead of an "outlet" of random sex with whomever she meets at an event? Wouldn't that be a more loving thing for you to be okay with? Wouldn't it be best for your daughter if you both had such stability?
Ok, to answer the first part of your question, no it is not a dictatorship. She decided to be a homemaker, and we share that responsibility as best we can. My schedule is full to the brim, as I go to school during the day, and work until 5 a.m. in the morning at nights to pay our bills. The two days off I get a week, are in fact, times I want to spend with my wife. I do not force her to do so.

Fostering animals will help her express her NRE by allowing her to connect in different ways with different things. She thrives on the connection, something to dote on. She has told me that it has helped before, that getting a new animal has given her the same satisfaction of novelty without the inherent negatives that bother me in poly. As for the "fucking" at Pennsic, her idea entirely. She feels that by getting the emotional connection she needs through animals and other new connections, she can express her physical needs for novelty through, as she called them "Casual flings in an environment where it is understood." She reached this conclusion because, and again, her words not mine, she knows now that her exploration of other relationships, whether I accept it or not, will always be difficult for me. And just as I cannot, in good conscience, keep her from being what she naturally is (poly) she cannot without feeling an immense guilt that would ruin the NRE she was receiving have other relationships in our day-to-day lives. She said that she was afraid of overstepping those boundaries one too many times, and that she wasn't willing to risk our marriage, and wanted to find other outlets.

I find this completely A. Logical, and B. reasonable.

Also, homemaker she is not. Mother she is. I am the cook 7 days a week, and I cook her meals and freeze them. Our roomate does most of the cleaning as well. Currently, her only real contribution is in fact being a mother. And to me, that's the biggest contribution any of us could ever make. I know I couldn't breastfeed our baby 8 times a day. I believe there are 4 kinds of mothers out there. Women who are bad mothers. Women who are good mothers. Women who are great mothers. And last but not least, women who were born to be mothers. My fiancee is one of the last group. She is without a doubt the most caring, attentive, and emotionally intelligent mothers I have ever seen. I might be bias here, but no one will ever convince me of that :P
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2011, 06:24 PM
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It sounds like what you said it was; a good, if perhaps somewhat temporary, compromise. I'm happy to read that the somewhat wounding (for you both) (compulsive?) dating has been put on hold for now.

Maybe your wife is more equipped and happy with being non-monogamous, not necessarily poly?
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  #17  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:38 PM
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I haven't read everything here. Its sometimes hard to catch up. I will only reply to my thread.

I sense a sort of stubborness to find ways to make this work. There is no room to budge on anything it seems. I feel for you and your situation but it isn't going to change until your attitude changes and you start seeing things in terms of abundance instead of scarcity. There are threads on that if you are interested. A tag search will bring them up.

I can empathize with her. I had aa baby once, I dated and was above board and found most men to be exactly what she is finding. Anyone on here who is dating now would likely say the same.

I still stand by my first post, so I suggest you read it when you are able to read it with a different atitude. Maybe that will help.
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  #18  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by pheonixaise View Post
However, what is the point of being poly if it is just to have your partner do things that hurt you, with no benefit to yourself.
But if you're mono, then being poly is NOT a benefit to you. It might make things worse for you, in any case won't help, and would hurt another woman. Right now I'm wondering if you're not trying to get some revenge or some thing. A kind of "you're hurting me? Well I'll do the same thing, see how you like it!". Except it's probable it won't hurt her the way it hurts you since she's not mono.

I've heard of plenty of mono/poly relationships, but I haven't heard of a mono being poly because he's with a poly. It sounds like a recipe for disaster, really.

You think there are no benefits to you staying with her? (Because she's made up your mind, she's poly and is going to live it, so that's really your choice: either you stay, or you go). There are advantages to your staying. Being with a woman you love. Being with your baby.
There are advantages to her being poly. That means you don't have to carry the financial burden on your own (provided she finds another stable relationship, I guess). That means help caring for your child. Just like you can care for the child while she's out on a date with her boyfriend, her boyfriend can care for the child while she's out on a date with you.
You can see her happy instead of miserable.

If none of these make up for the sacrifices you feel you have to make, then by all means, don't stay. But please don't drag someone else into this just because you want as big a piece of cake as your wife, even though you don't even like cake.
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  #19  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:07 PM
pheonixaise pheonixaise is offline
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But if you're mono, then being poly is NOT a benefit to you. It might make things worse for you, in any case won't help, and would hurt another woman. Right now I'm wondering if you're not trying to get some revenge or some thing. A kind of "you're hurting me? Well I'll do the same thing, see how you like it!". Except it's probable it won't hurt her the way it hurts you since she's not mono.

I've heard of plenty of mono/poly relationships, but I haven't heard of a mono being poly because he's with a poly. It sounds like a recipe for disaster, really.

You think there are no benefits to you staying with her? (Because she's made up your mind, she's poly and is going to live it, so that's really your choice: either you stay, or you go). There are advantages to your staying. Being with a woman you love. Being with your baby.
There are advantages to her being poly. That means you don't have to carry the financial burden on your own (provided she finds another stable relationship, I guess). That means help caring for your child. Just like you can care for the child while she's out on a date with her boyfriend, her boyfriend can care for the child while she's out on a date with you.
You can see her happy instead of miserable.

If none of these make up for the sacrifices you feel you have to make, then by all means, don't stay. But please don't drag someone else into this just because you want as big a piece of cake as your wife, even though you don't even like cake.
Ok. I'm getting mildly tired of saying this. I WON'T, I repeat, WON'T get into a relationship until I find someone that I feel a real connection with. That means that I won't date until I actually FIND that connection. I'm not going to do something like jump into a relationship out of spite. I have too much respect for the other person. I've had the opportunity. Believe me. However, I have always said no because I either don't feel a connection, don't find them interesting, or don't find them physically attractive. Without all three of those, I won't enter into a relationship. Imagine, if I were to date someone I found attractive physically and emotionally, but couldn't have a conversation with. How would I tell them that? What about someone physically and mentally attractive? How would I tell them that I wasn't feeling a connection? And last but not least, what if they were emotionally and mentally attractive, but not physically attractive. I certainly wouldn't be the one to say when they want to take our relationship to a physical level "No, so, I don't want to because...."

I simply will not be that person. Never have been that person, and never will. But I'm also not going to be monogamous while she is poly. It would break my brain in ways I can't really describe. However, I make this promise now, I will not date someone until our relationship is better, and I won't date someone until I feel a REAL connection.
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  #20  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:15 PM
pheonixaise pheonixaise is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I haven't read everything here. Its sometimes hard to catch up. I will only reply to my thread.

I sense a sort of stubborness to find ways to make this work. There is no room to budge on anything it seems. I feel for you and your situation but it isn't going to change until your attitude changes and you start seeing things in terms of abundance instead of scarcity. There are threads on that if you are interested. A tag search will bring them up.

I can empathize with her. I had aa baby once, I dated and was above board and found most men to be exactly what she is finding. Anyone on here who is dating now would likely say the same.

I still stand by my first post, so I suggest you read it when you are able to read it with a different atitude. Maybe that will help.
These are the exact kinds of polarized views I wasn't looking for. I read your post, and I must say that this is a philosophy. A philosophy is as sound as the people who follow it, and as varied as the names of the people involved. I'm sorry, but I don't believe in abundance, because there are 24 hours in a day, and no one can change that. Scarcity is a fact of life. We are not immortal, and have a set amount of time on this planet. I will admit, that requires a certain level of freedom of choice, but I am not unwilling to budge on anything. What I'm unwilling to do is silently suffer.

I've walked in on my fiancee in bed with my best friend. The man who was going to be the best man at my wedding, with no prior notice. I have had her fight with me about how I swept the floor before going out on a date, leaving me to seethe at the thought of playing out oh so many of my favorite songs. I've had her cut a man's name who broke up with her into her arm directly after we had sex, and cry the rest of the night. I'm bitter, yes. Because I have actually been hurt. And I am not a masochist.

However, I would like to say this now, unless you're not going to approach this with a "Change your attitude, you inconsiderate bastard" approach, please don't post here. I told you I compromised, and I realize that most people here are of her philosophy, so I don't expect supporters of monogamy, but at least be considerate of the fact that I think differently, and am legitimately trying to change.

But also know that it isn't easy.
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