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  #91  
Old 02-13-2011, 01:31 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Ragabash and I signed a separation agreement (his idea, which I agree was a good idea. He wrote it and brought it to me for reading and signing).
As of the 10th, I move out of our apartment, where he's going to go back to (he was living with his parents) and as of yesterday I'm in California with my boyfriend Seamus, until May 10th or earlier.

The difference in time is because I left the apartment at 3 in the morning to get to the airport for my flight at 7:30, but then there had been a mix-up, and I couldn't fly until the 11th at 1:30 pm. I spent the time in between at the airport. The customs was an ordeal, but it's all over and done with now and I'm glad for that.

Rag and I want to remain friends, but we have agreed that for that to happen we need to get over the separation first, and therefore we're going to be in contact very little for the next while.

Seamus and I were supposed to go to a poly pagan party tonight (celebration of Lupercalia), but I'm tired, weak and sick (infections... started while still in Canada, I had to go out a lot since I was leaving alone, and the weather has been terrible. So I have a lung infection, a sinus infection and am generally infected a bit everywhere. It's a pain since I'm allergic to antibiotics) so we decided to decline in the end. It's too bad because I was really looking forward to it, but I probably only would have made things worse, and he things I need to stay home and rest and he needs to stay home and take care of me (won't complain about that).

So... right now I'm spending time with Seamus, seeing how things work out. I don't see why things would go wrong, but I've just separated from my husband so I'm being a bit more careful this time. Then I'm going to France and depending, either trying to get a visa to move to the US with Seamus and build a life together, or staying in France and trying to build a life there.

Either way, I learned a lot about myself along this journey, and I am much happier with my life, uncertain as it is, and I feel much more confident that I'll be able to do what I want and need. My situation isn't that different now than it was in Canada: I'm still not allowed to work or study, or to stay forever. And yet, while I felt imprisoned over there, I'm feeling free here. I hope I can keep it that way.
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  #92  
Old 02-19-2011, 07:44 PM
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Morningglory629 Morningglory629 is offline
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Best of luck!
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  #93  
Old 03-05-2011, 09:30 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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These past few days, I've been thinking long and hard about lessons I've learned. Some things (a lot of things) were specific to my previous relationship with Raga, and don't mean much for other people or for future relationships for either of us. Others are more general, and I'm determined to keep them in mind for future relationships.

I considered writing them down in "lessons we've learned" but concluded that maybe they were too personal and that I should write them here instead. As usual, I encourage everyone to comment and be very critical. I'm not one to think people shouldn't be critical of me just because it's my blog.

- Be open right away.
When I broke up with Raga, a lot of people heard about Seamus at the same time, or had only known about him for very little time. Had they heard about us opening our relationship almost three years ago, or about Seamus when I first met him in May, they wouldn't be so quick to blame either for the end of the relationship.
Similarly, had they heard about J for the year Raga was pursuing her, they wouldn't be so quick to call me unfair, think I wanted the relationship to be opened only one way, or think Raga started pursuing someone only after I had met someone myself because he felt lonely or something (since he liked her for months before I even met Seamus).

I'm a very honest person, sometimes brutally so. It's very hard for me to keep secrets, and I hate doing it. I'm very glad I had told people on my side (the few people in France I'm still in contact with) about things, but I realise now it was even more important that people on his side (his family, his friends, friends of both of us) knew. From now on, I'll refuse any hiding, and won't have partners who want their relationship with me or my relationship with Seamus to be a secret from anyone.

I know a lot of people here are still in the closet, partially or completely. I'm not saying you're wrong, it might be what works for me. But I hated having to hide because he wasn't ready to be out, and it all ended up hitting the fan and falling on me in the end, so in the future I need to be more true to myself.

-Expect drama
I need to be less idealistic and expect people to react in ways I wouldn't have expected. It sounds very silly in retrospect, but I fully expected everyone to see our breakup as something sad that happened to the two of us, the loss of a relationship, and react in a similar way they would have for another loss (such as the less of a child, a pet, a friend, a job...) and comfort and support both of us.
Instead, most people wanted someone to blame. It was my fault, or Seamus's fault, or Raga's fault. Why does it have to be anyone's fault? Why can't it just be that the relationship had run its course?
Yes, it was me who said "this relationship is dead, let's stop faking it", but that doesn't mean I made it dead. I was devastated too that it wasn't working out anymore. I wished things would get better. I even tried to lie to myself and temporarily fix it. I first simply suggested to go to France because I was feeling so trapped and wanted a change of air. I could even get a job and an income, since that was one of the things I had trouble with, feeling like a burden.
I had commented that it would help us to take some time apart for the past year, year and a half. But Raga always answered in vague terms, or in a "someday" or in a "if things were different" way. I was tired of it.

So I went and said "I'm going back to France for a bit". I thought if I started strong, we'd be able to talk about things. We'd be able to decide and get the time apart we needed, and go back to the relationship in a healthy way.

But then, Raga broke down. I told him I wanted to talk about it, decide together, see what we could do. He refused to talk and left that night to go live with his parents.

In a lot of ways, I feel he's the one who abandoned the relationship there and then. When that happened, I thought, I don't need that drama. I don't want a relationship where we can't talk. I don't want a relationship where every decision I try to make for myself results in emotional blackmail, in him crying and me feeling like a terrible person to have tried to be true to myself or think about myself or made my own decisions.

For the next couple of days, every time he logged online I would talk to him and try to talk about us. But the second we started to talk about us, he would say something and then just go, like he had done in person. For instance, he started talking about a marriage counselor, I was like "er, okay...?", then said he'd make an appointment and just left.
I felt like I wasn't even included in the decision. I wanted to talk about things first! Why did his mind immediately go to a marriage counselor when he wasn't even willing to have a discussion with his wife?

I got tired of it. I ended up sending him an email saying that I wanted to break things completely instead of a separation. I didn't think at that point that a separation would help us anymore. I felt he would just be waiting for the time we'd be back together again, and not do any work on himself, and that I would just end up moving on and, when meeting again, not want to start the relationship again.
For both of us, breaking it off made more sense. For him, a separation didn't look like it would do any good if it wasn't a real separation, with no end date at sight, and for me it seemed like at this point it would be hypocritical, because the more I tried to talk about things, the more he just said he had to go. And we had already been dealing with problems for a while, I seemed clear to me suddenly. And thinking back, then too he would go away and talk to friends online instead of talking to me when I wanted to talk about our problems.

To be continued
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  #94  
Old 03-05-2011, 09:51 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Once the break up was clear, I didn't want to go back.
When I was inside the relationship, I had been trying to fight hard for it. I had been dedicated to it. But now that I wasn't in it anymore (that all happened at the end of December, by the way, to give everyone an idea), it became like entering a relationship, and it was completely different.

I wasn't willing to enter a relationship that was so unhealthy, with someone unstable. Raga is a wonderful person, but he needs more confidence, or to learn to fake it. I tried to give it to him during our relationship, but I'm the one who ended up feeling like crap in the end. Being with me wasn't enough for him to feel confident or happy, and it made me less confident and less happy.
He would ask if I regretted being with him, over and over again, no matter how many times I said no. He would say nobody was on his side no matter how much I was. He recently (before the breakup) said he had never had any luck in love even though he was in a relationship with me.

At some point down the line, I started taking it out on him. He made me feel worthless, and I resented him. "Do you regret being with me?" he'd ask for the umpteenth time. Sure! Why not? Maybe you'll stop asking.

But I was becoming someone I hated. The more he was placing himself as the victim, the more I ended up filling the part of the person hurting him. The more he complained about things, the more it made me think "with all I've tried to do for it, you only go moping around? I'll give you reasons to complain!"

I was becoming a terrible person. I didn't like it. And because I loved him, I also hated making him suffer. But in a way, it felt better than before. Because before, no matter how hard I tried to be nice, understanding, the best person ever, the person who would make all he had to go through worth it, the person who would fix everything that had been wrong in his life, the person giving him his "happily ever after", he always ended up sad in the end. And the more I tried, the more devastating it was that I wasn't helping any. And the more he swore he was happy in the middle of crying and saying he sucked, the more I felt like he wasn't.
But now, with the new dynamics (and thinking back, it might have been years. I think I switched as a self-defense mechanism after having such a hard time living with him for a year in Canada. I think in 2007 or so, when we moved to France, I was already starting to change towards that), now it was different. I felt bad about hurting him, but at least I hadn't done all I could do not to.
If he was going to be hurt anyway, it was so much easier to feel like it was what I wanted, too. If he was going to feel like he wasn't worth anything, it was so much easier to act like he wasn't, too.

This is all very hard to talk about. I would have times of fighting it as much as I could, trying to be nice, understanding, help him, and then he would be so... It's hard to say, it was like everything about him was yelling "punch me in the face! Please, punch me in the face, that's the only thing I can relate to!". But, emotionally, not physically or anything.

When I fell in love again, it reminded me of how good a person I could be, I had been, I used to be. I tried to use that in my relationship with Raga, with some success, but there were relapses.
When I was being nice to him, he would provoke arguments. When we were having a good day, he would find ways to talk about things that pushed my buttons. And he knew how to push my buttons. And we would argue, and I would resent him, and he would feel worthless, and somehow the circle was starting again.

I don't think at any point he did it on purpose. I think it was subconscious. I think he just didn't believe he could be happy, and was worried to be disappointed, and so caused things to go sour because this way, he knew when things were going to go bad and didn't have to keep anticipating it.

I could be completely off-base here. It's hard to tell with these things, and I'm no shrink. But there are a lot of things he did... Not showing up to job interviews in France, and then saying he couldn't find a job, even though there were interviews, he just didn't go to them. Refusing to apply for some jobs because he "wouldn't be accepted". Who knows if he would be?
Later on, in Canada, hiding bills even though we could pay for them. Being clumsy, breaking things by just walking in a room and falling on them.

All of these look like they could have been ways he was trying to make things tense between us without even realising it.

I can't be sure about him, but I can analyse my side of things. I'm someone who tries very hard to be what people expect of me. When I was a teenager, I had a slutty phase that was completely due to thinking it would make men happy, and had nothing to do with me and my own happiness. I didn't have sex with people I wanted to have sex with, I had sex with people because I thought they wanted me to, and therefore if I did I would be pleasing them.

I have issues with my parents being demanding, and my trying to please them to no avail. So it's an instinct I have that I haven't always been fully aware of. And it might have a terrible feel for things.
Maybe Raga was subconsciously trying to make me upset with him, trying to make me treat him badly. Maybe he wasn't. But one thing is sure, subconsciously, my "pleaser" instinct thought that was what was expected of me, and I acted that way.

To be continued.
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  #95  
Old 03-05-2011, 10:11 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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So, I was being an abuser because I felt I was supposed to be.
But I hated it. It was a terrible thing to do, a terrible thing to be. I loved him so much, yet I was hurting him. And I was also not listening to myself. I was doing things that hurt him but also hurt me. I didn't want things to be that way. Yet I felt they had to.

Raga is a very good person, and if you read this, Raga, I want you to know that I do believe you have many, many qualities, and your big flaw is lack of self-confidence, lack of self-worth and as a result refusal to get help (probably because you believe you don't deserve it?)

I wanted you to get help, I wanted it so much. I was convinced it would solve all your problems, and as a result mine (wasn't I acting that way because you expected, wanted me to?) I was quick to blame my problems on you, both because I felt I was reacting more than acting, but also because that fit well in the whole dynamics we had created for ourselves.

I needed an outlet where I wasn't a bad person, where I wasn't hurting people, where I was an independent woman who took care of herself.
I didn't find it. Not in France where I felt I had to deal with your issues more than ever, not in Canada where I couldn't work or study and felt dependent on you... yet resented you for it because I felt you wanted me to. You wanted to feel like I was using you, because being used, being taken advantage of, that's what you know.
But I didn't want that. I wanted to move someplace else where I could do other things, feel productive, maybe be able to relax from the stress our relationship was causing for me (just like it was stressful for you, I'm sure).

And yet I was stuck there, and it stayed that way, and neither of us acted much to change it. We were both still stuck in the dynamics that called for the relationship to remain that way.

When I started a relationship with Seamus, I felt I was the person I liked being again. I was nice. I was happy. I tried hard to take that into my relationship with Raga, but I had no success. The same patterns would reappear, start all over again.

Eventually, I felt too much pressure from it all, and asked to go back to France (which I had talked about a lot in the past, except this time I put my foot down). There I thought I could feel like my old self again, I could escape from the relationship. Raga had finally started therapy, and I thought this way we would both get better, and we would have a better shot at trying again.

Well, I talked earlier about what happened then. And then and ever since, I haven't felt able to break the old patterns. I still get cruel. Every time he complains about how hard it is for him, I feel like he's asking me to make it harder, or to tell him it is NOT hard.

I don't think the relationship has much of a chance now. I am still aiming to and hoping for a friendship, but we both need a lot of time before that's possible. We need to rebuild trust. It must seem obvious to everyone how much I have hurt him, what might be less obvious is that he hurt me, too. I don't think either of us wanted things to happen that way. But now we need to reach a place where we won't hurt each other, so we can have a healthy relationship, and I don't think I'll ever be willing for it to be something else than a friendship. I think at this point I'm just too worried it would start all over again, and I feel we're just bad for one another.

I need someone who expect me to be a great person, consciously and unconsciously, so I can be one and feel good about it. And Raga needs someone who won't fall into the pattern, won't feel the hole of abuser he creates when he places himself as abused. Or to learn to appreciate himself, recognise his strengths, work on his weaknesses so he can go into the next relationship as a more confident, happier man who knows he deserves to be happy, loved and respected, and won't take anything less, and for that I believe he needs to be alone, as otherwise he could use a relationship as his crutch and not get where he needs to be, or the relationship, which could have worked really well, might be destroyed by issues that aren't fixed yet.

I'm afraid I did a lot of speaking for Raga here. I could be wrong about all of it, and Raga, if you read this, you should feel free to add your own comments on any or all of it. I said things the way I feel about them, now, in retrospect, and it helped me understand a lot about myself, it was some kind of self-therapy, and I believe my points still stand if I was wrong, the premise is just different: instead of Raga subconsciously wanting me to act one way, it's me misinterpreting things and thinking he did. Either way, the result was as I've just explained.
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  #96  
Old 03-15-2011, 02:05 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Seamus had lunch with a girl he's liked for over a year (close to a year and a half I think). She rejected him a few months ago ("I wouldn't be able to do that", referring to poly) but they've stayed friends and now they work close to one another.
I can't help but root for him, but I know it's pointless, she was clear and he knows that, I guess I just want a metamour already! :P

This being said, I'm not sure how that would work... He gets up at seven to go to work, gets home around eleven... We spend maybe an hour together during weekdays, and it's spent eating supper. And on the weekends he's exhausted, although we do end up spending much more time together, but he sleeps in and stuff. I'm not sure how he would have time for another girlfriend.

He also wants to adopt eventually, and similarly, I don't know when he'd have time to spend with his kids. I already told him it's a no-no if it mean me taking care of the kid the whole time, and only getting less time with my boyfriend in return. He'll need to work less or work from home before that's an option.

I was talking about B, the woman Seamus likes, because we're going to a St Patrick Party that she's throwing this weekend. She invited us at least two months ago, so I've been looking forward to that.

I'm also looking forward to getting a "real" job. Not allowed to work from the US either (I couldn't in Canada) since I'm on a visa waiver program, as a tourist. Once I'm in France I'll work on getting a visa into the US to study, work or both. Hopefully I'll be able to.
In the meantime I've been working on translations and writing while Seamus is at work. I'm making a lot of progress, but because it's not a paid job it seems a bit pointless at times. I do feel productive most of the time though, and I'm very happy with the results.

I wish I could do my Wii workout. To help with my anxiety issues, I found a game that really helped, and I was doing the workout every day. But when I moved to the US, I bought a new Wii, and I had brought the games and sensors, but I forgot the USB thing that plugs in the back. I've been trying to workout in other ways, but it's not really working, I think it's the habit that really helped. So I'm a bit worried about my anxiety coming back.
I wrote to Raga to ask him if he could send it to me, which he said he would weeks ago, but the breakup has been hard for him and it seems he's trying not to do anything that reminds him of it... It's understandable but a bit frustrating, it feels as though I had his antidepressants and wasn't sending them to him, this workout was really helping with my anxiety and it's harder to cope without it.

Seamus says I should buy it again, which I might end up doing, but it's still annoying.

That's about it in news from me. I'm not sure how many people are following this blog, but I've been wanting to update it a bit more often. Time will tell if I stick to it.
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:19 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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So, update time.

First, I still haven't heard from Raga about my stuff. The USB thing specifically I asked for about a month ago, and on the 24th of February he said he'd send it as soon as possible. Since then he hasn't given news unless asked for it, always saying he hasn't done it yet, and on the 15th even telling me he can't send it because he doesn't have the address.
So, I email him the address.
It is frustrating: for one thing I gave it to him in January and even checked before leaving Canada that he still had it and asked if he wanted me to give it again and he said no, and then he sent me an email that accused me of never giving it to him, with a connotation of "I'm waiting on you, jeez, you're taking your time" when he's the one who has been stalling it.
And on top of that, if he really didn't have the address, well I've been here since Feb 11th and asking for some of my stuff to be shipped since the day after that. I think if it took him a month to realise he had lost the address, he wasn't even trying to send it in the first place.

The "it's taking ages for him to send my stuff" is frustrating for a few reason. One, it's frustrating because I'm leaving in the beginning of May, and I'll basically be a hobo once in France (couchsurfing if you will) so I won't be taking any of my stuff, and I'd like to get to enjoy it before it's too late.
But most of all, I want to reach the "don't be in contact much anymore" stage that everyone says is necessary for the both of us, and as long as my stuff is with him, I have to stay in contact with him. Which leads me to believe he's not sending it because of that, because he wants to force our staying in contact, and that's annoying.

I was originally supposed to leave Canada at the very beginning of January. I had to delay it by more than a month due to vaccinations for my pets, etc. At the time, I seriously considered going first and having my pet sent to me a month later. Pretty much everybody was telling me to do that, leave as soon as possible, taking almost nothing with me, and having Raga send me stuff.
I refused to do that with my pet, because I was worried if I did he would use her to annoy me, blackmail me or torture me, keeping her with him and refusing to send her while pretexting various things. Or simply procrastinating as he's so prone to doing.
It wasn't the only reason, I also didn't want to be away from her, I thought the trip would be less traumatic for her if she was with me, and she's never been too attached to Raga so I didn't think it would be fair to her to leave her behind.

Still, I'm really relieved that I listened to my instinct, as although I hoped to be wrong (I even felt guilty for suspecting these things), he's definitely proved me right in the last month and a half.

Pretty much right away (so, a month ago), Seamus said I should see a lawyer to make Raga send me my stuff (it's part of our separation agreement, which he signed, that he's supposed to send me my things) but I didn't want to resort to that. I wanted us to stay in good terms, and it seemed petty to go that far. Seamus told me it would be the only way to ever get my stuff, and I'm afraid he's right. I hate to do it, but I think I'm going to have to...

I mean, some of the stuff there is basic stuff, like my underwear! (Before leaving I decided to wash clothes and forgot them in the dryer. I was in such a rush because for a month everyone had been telling me how terrible a person I was for not leaving a month ago, and that it was mean to Raga, etc, so I wanted to leave the apartment to him as soon as humanely possible. As a result I left a lot of basic things behind that I really need. And I'm not in a situation to buy them again, I still don't know how I'm going to scrape enough money to buy my ticket out of the US).

Anyway, that's it for the shipping issue, next post will be about the St Patrick party I went to.

EDIT: since I'm at ranting... another thing that frustrates me is that I couldn't bring my ebook reader's charger along, and not because I forgot it, but because I couldn't find it. I think he might have taken it with him to his parents' place, or used it and put it somewhere, and it's annoying that he's been using it more than me when it's mine and his didn't come with one. He can charge his reader USB-wise on a computer too, so it's annoying that he'd use my charger. And not send it back to me when he noticed he had it or after I asked for it.

Last edited by Tonberry; 03-21-2011 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:31 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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So, St-Patrick.

This Saturday, I went to a St-Patty party, my first ever (the day isn't very big in France). It was organised by Seamus's interest, now a friend as she told him she wasn't into poly. She had been looking forward to meeting me (and vice-versa).

I needed something green to wear, so we went to a thrift shop and Seamus bought for me a green sweater (that zips in the front) and a skirt (I don't usually wear skirts but this one was really comfy) with an advance from his next paycheque (which was embarrassing for me. I hate being a burden, especially financial. Fortunately it was a thrift store so each item was under ten bucks).

The jacket/sweater is nice and warm and is a hoodie. It's completely green (colour close to olive) and we got it because I was going to wear a top that ties behind the neck and has no sleeves, and he was worried people would comment about my armpit hairs. Since I didn't know anyone, he didn't want it to be awkward for me or anything like that.
The skirt is pale with some black and some green, long (reaches my shoes) and very fluid, very light but surprisingly warm.

The part was supposed to be partially outside, but it rained all day so we stayed inside. I didn't end up talking to many people, staying with a group of about 3 new people plus Seamus and me. We played some videogames, then we talked a lot. A few people started being drunk and that was even funnier (especially for Seamus and I who didn't drink at all).

I met B, Seamus's interest, and she was very friendly and happy to see me, as was I. We got along right away, and during the first half of the party she was busy with her hostess duties, but later one when a bunch of people had left she hung out with our little group a lot more.

I had a very good time, and I don't usually do well in groups, especially when I don't know anyone. But they were all very friendly, and people were in smaller groups which made it much easier than a huge group at once.

It was also nice to be introduced as his girlfriend for the first time to people who don't know my husband (although some were aware of him). Before that, I had always felt like he "got seconds" I was my husband's wife first and his girlfriend next, and it seemed hardly fair for it to always be that way and never the other way around.
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:52 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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The past few days have been better and much less stressful.

Raga sent the package a few days ago and gave me a tracking number. The package has left Canada and I expect it to arrive next week. I don't know what all is in it exactly, but it's a relief. I've already been here in the US for half of the whole time I'm going to be spending, so I was starting to worry that I wouldn't get to see my things at all.

The transfer I asked for from my French account also finally went through. My French bank card expired earlier than I thought it would and it stupidly took me by surprise (I thought I had all of the month of February but instead it expired on my birthday in France), and I hadn't bought my plane ticket yet because I wanted to be sure about the details. For instance, now it has been decided that I won't be taking my cat along because my situation in France wouldn't be suitable for her (I'll be couch surfing and changing places often), and that affects the purchase of the ticket since you have to mention pets within 24 hours of purchase.

Anyways, my US account finally got the money so I'll be buying my plane ticket.

Speaking of the US account, I've been receiving mail asking me to prove I'm not trying to evade taxes. I have to justify why I have a US address if I'm not a US resident. I find it a bit silly, why would I have opened a US account if I wasn't staying here? But ultimately it's not really a big deal.

I've started working towards getting a lawyer for the divorce, through my grandfather, who hopefully can get things started in France before I move back there, so that it will be faster.

Seamus should also get his first paycheque soon so we'll be fine money-wise from now on.

I've been working on translations since movie to California (first comics, now facebook games) and I hope to be able to find a job as a translator once I move to the US as a resident. I'll have to purchase new tools (dictionaries, thesauruses, specialised dictionaries, that kind of things) but otherwise I'm pretty enthusiastic about it all, I've been able to get some work done regularly so I'm optimistic about keeping the pace when being given paid assignments.

No real poly news. I get along with Seamus as usual, neither of us has much time or interest for a new person at the time... well that's a lie, we're both interested in another person, but both of them have said no, and there is nobody else we're interested in. And neither of us are much into looking for a partner, we're more about liking someone specific and asking them. So we're being "mono", but we talk about poly things a lot (such as the person we like and things like that).
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:24 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
Speaking of the US account, I've been receiving mail asking me to prove I'm not trying to evade taxes. I have to justify why I have a US address if I'm not a US resident.
Don't feel bad, even US citizens have to actually prove residence. Just write a letter, make copies and send it to who ever is going to ask for it. I work in the financial industry and since 9/11 it's rediculous. We have to have valid drivers licenses, pasports, etc to prove identity and if there is no documentation to prove a physical place of residence, we would be expected to actually drive by the address they listed. It's crazy.

We also have to ask questions about the source (gift, inheritance, wages, other investment, etc) of money, and that's if it's not coming from overseas.


Quote:
I find it a bit silly, why would I have opened a US account if I wasn't staying here?
Money Laundering. You would not believe the crap we have to study every year on this subject alone, not to mention the "real life" stories of those that actually get caught. There are entire departments in every major financial institution that does nothing but monitor "Anti-Money Laundering" procedures and violations.

Take pitty on the poor person who is opening the account for you, they probably have gone back and forth to their supervisor 20 times, just making sure they have done everything correctly. Don't be surprised if they come back 2 weeks later needing more paperwork signed.
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