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  #161  
Old 03-15-2011, 01:32 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neonkaos
This PSA brought to you by the Department of Retrospective Pessimism.
LOL's IRL.

Mono - I'm not asking for benefits. I'm asking only that the SAME benefits apply unilaterally. If religion and politics are seperate, why are our relationships - and so many other things - legally defined by stigmas and rules developed almost entirely by religios factions? Scripture aside, what basis is there for heterosexual monogamous relationships being the oly ones recognized by the state?

"Benefits" doesn't necessarily mean "getting something" in this context, but merely not having something taken away!
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  #162  
Old 03-15-2011, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
The monogamous agreements that people enter into, and are recognized for the purposes of benefits, have one thing that poly will need to compensate for; stability. No one can expect government or employers to try to keep up the fluidity of relationships even seen on this forum. The administrative burden of paperwork to assign and de-assign benefits would be ridiculous in many cases. One day you could be together..the next you are not...the next day you are. The paperwork and criteria to qualify for benefits are extensive and limiting for a reason; to create a benchmark of commitment and longetivity to recognized couples. When poly can come up with some way and agreed upon idea of what avalid relationship entails, thenwe can lobby for rights and benefits. This community is defined to broadly and without enough criteria to have relationships recognized legally or by employers. Unfortunately some people will get left out of any description that will be sufficient to legitimately seek recognition. How do we handle that?
Just wanted to quickly jump in on this one

Don't know what the lay of the land is anywhere else... but over here a de facto relationship can be claimed after 12 months of residing together... and separation must be maintained for 12 months after that for it to be considered final... so for benefits its a long haul... there is a certain level of committment... I see no reason why that same level of 'proof' shouldn't extend to poly relationships... If monogamous relationships have the burden of proof to claim benefits as we do here then it stands to reason that if another relationship also stands up to those same 'proofs' it is just as valid and should be treated accordingly.
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  #163  
Old 03-15-2011, 02:53 PM
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Very good point robfire.
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  #164  
Old 03-15-2011, 04:42 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
LOL's IRL.

Mono - I'm not asking for benefits. I'm asking only that the SAME benefits apply unilaterally. If religion and politics are seperate, why are our relationships - and so many other things - legally defined by stigmas and rules developed almost entirely by religios factions? Scripture aside, what basis is there for heterosexual monogamous relationships being the oly ones recognized by the state?

"Benefits" doesn't necessarily mean "getting something" in this context, but merely not having something taken away!
ummmm... because most people in general believe moral fibre comes from faith. Moral fibre tends to define our core laws. Hence the connection.

Its been like that as long as there has been law. Its not something you will easily get to dismiss. The overwhelming (and it is that) majority tends to define, based on the religious and moral beliefs.

Its an unfortunate truth that defines society. If you want to defeat the law, you have to figure out how to define what you want as not being morally destructive. So in this utopia, how do you protect against the men (and women) who would abuse it by taking on drugged up underage girls as "wives".

If you want to take down a law, be prepared to defend the dark in seedy side of what you think it means. I have been around advocates and protesters most of my life. Most don't think of the flip side which is why most times their stance loses ground. You can't simply say "well that isn't poly"... what you think doesn't matter, its the public perception. For example, polygamy...is poly... its an unfortunate attachment to a label.

As a conservative male... who is poly... I am not entirely convinced the law should be taken down because I am not convinced there is a better way to deal with the dirty old men with 50 wives (Jonestown is an extreme example). Cults, or the really hidden side, the BDSM Masters who are actually abusive douche bags with ACTUAL slaves. Poly is such a tiny subculture within society that ANY subculture within poly that will make poly look bad you HAVE to be able to defend against.

Not all of this is directed at you HMA, for the record. Just my mental spew first thing in the morning...

It might seem like I am against all of this. I am just stating a case. Anyone who wants to throw down with a legal system as defined by christianity, great. But be prepared to defend every nuance of what poly is. Including the shit no one wants to admit is poly ..
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  #165  
Old 03-16-2011, 10:03 AM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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I don't take it personally. I'm from a very religious - mormon actually - family that is VERY, VERY politically active. I get what you're saying - probably on a level you don't, lol (no offense) since many family and friends are politicians, lobbyists, journalists, and such on the local, national, and international level (my father was president of a lobby group instrumental in much of the Doha legislature and other UN activity). I know first (or 2nd I guess) hand just what it takes to get things changed fro EITHER side.

But the abuses are there with the current system as well. That's not a valid reason to shoot down change. The polygamist "cults" within the FLDS and RLDS faiths are not a good example of ploy, we all know that - but there are aso good examples to be had even there - the Sister Wives show seems to show a very happy polygamist family with willing partners all. If poly was legally recognized, these groups would probably have HARDER time existing once their "relationships" came under the scrutiny of the mainstream, lol.

Point being, there's a dark side to everything human; the fact that poly has a dark side is no different than monogamy having one. The fact of there being one shouldn't cloud the issue.
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  #166  
Old 03-17-2011, 05:39 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappiestManAlive View Post
The polygamist "cults" within the FLDS and RLDS faiths are not a good example of ploy,
OMG, LMAO, there is someone ELSE on here who knows what RLDS is? HOLY SHIT!

I was raised RLDS, which by the way isn't RLDS anymore-cause they had a whole temper tantrum about being "mistaken" for Mormons (as if) and changed it to "communities of christ".

BUT-that wasn't why I replied. I just wanted to laugh and tell you that I thought it was funny that you actually used RLDS because no one ever knows what the fuck I'm talking about when I do.
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  #167  
Old 03-17-2011, 06:10 PM
Hannahfluke Hannahfluke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
OMG, LMAO, there is someone ELSE on here who knows what RLDS is? HOLY SHIT!

I was raised RLDS, which by the way isn't RLDS anymore-cause they had a whole temper tantrum about being "mistaken" for Mormons (as if) and changed it to "communities of christ".

BUT-that wasn't why I replied. I just wanted to laugh and tell you that I thought it was funny that you actually used RLDS because no one ever knows what the fuck I'm talking about when I do.
Well, those of us raised Mormon know all about the RLDS. The evil people who didn't follow Brigham Young after Joseph Smith died (I am being a sarcastic and mean no disrespect to anyone who is RLDS, that's just the way it's usually classified in the Mormon church, if not officially, at least socially).
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  #168  
Old 03-17-2011, 06:19 PM
disillusioned disillusioned is offline
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I'm a poly DSLR person myself....

(I have both Canon 5D and Nikon D90 ("poly") most people go with one or the other.... I wish Canon and Nikon people could be friends but, you know how it is... human nature)

Last edited by disillusioned; 03-17-2011 at 06:22 PM.
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  #169  
Old 03-17-2011, 06:43 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Originally Posted by disillusioned View Post
I'm a poly DSLR person myself....

(I have both Canon 5D and Nikon D90 ("poly") most people go with one or the other.... I wish Canon and Nikon people could be friends but, you know how it is... human nature)
LOL

Canon can't figure out how to use the same lens mounts when the come up with a new and better camera - What's with that?
Sorry! Completely off topic
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  #170  
Old 03-17-2011, 06:48 PM
disillusioned disillusioned is offline
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Sometimes I wish I could hold both of them in the same time, one in each hand, and shoot off all day long, with both....
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