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  #21  
Old 03-08-2011, 11:00 PM
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In a lot of ways, IMO, this experience is like learning to float on your back in the water. You have to relax and let go in order to open up to new experiences. If you are coming into the situation predisposed to a fear of drowning, it's really hard not to panic and thwart your own best efforts to learn.

The people in these groups can act as hands holding you up in the water until you learn to trust your own buoyancy. If you don't trust those hands, if you aren't comfortable with their touch, then they may be adding another layer of anxiety rather than lending support........

The way I see it, she tried to jump in the deep end before she'd learned to swim. Her first experience was frightening and overwhelming, as near-drowning experiences tend to be. Now she has the additional burden of overcoming that, as well as still needing to learn to keep aloft in poly's sometimes turbulent seas.

I think she is very brave to keep trying.
What an excellent analogy! I think that is an awesome way of looking at it! May I quote you in my blog?

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I don't really fit our local poly group either. There are a lot of people in it that I just don't get. They are great and all, but their idea of poly doesn't seem to be similar to mine and/or their position in it is different. I still go though. I have learned a lot about what I don't want from them and care about the journey they are on. I have invested in my community now.
I also don't "mesh" well with our local poly-group. It's small and primarily made up of people who are not in poly-fi dynamics. While my dynamic isn't perfectly poly-fi, my end of it is. It's hard always having to explain to people that while I am poly-I am not interested in more lovers. That just seems to confuse and baffle the group as well as leaving them uncomfortable with my presence...
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  #22  
Old 03-09-2011, 02:34 AM
dragonshadow dragonshadow is offline
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hello im new here and i just started reading some of the threads, ive noticed alot of parrellels in your relationship with your husband and my own marriage. I'm in a situation like yours and trying to understand everything and your thread has actually helped a good deal. thank you
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  #23  
Old 03-09-2011, 04:40 AM
RobFire RobFire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penny View Post
In a lot of ways, IMO, this experience is like learning to float on your back in the water. You have to relax and let go in order to open up to new experiences. If you are coming into the situation predisposed to a fear of drowning, it's really hard not to panic and thwart your own best efforts to learn.

The people in these groups can act as hands holding you up in the water until you learn to trust your own buoyancy. If you don't trust those hands, if you aren't comfortable with their touch, then they may be adding another layer of anxiety rather than lending support.

There's an element of intimacy and vulnerability to learning about polyamory. Even if there are things RitaFire could learn from the local poly group, if she can't connect with them or feel comfortable with them then exposing her to them may only increase her anxiety.

The way I see it, she tried to jump in the deep end before she'd learned to swim. Her first experience was frightening and overwhelming, as near-drowning experiences tend to be. Now she has the additional burden of overcoming that, as well as still needing to learn to keep aloft in poly's sometimes turbulent seas.

I think she is very brave to keep trying.
I see a lot of wisdom in this analogy as well, and it strikes at the heart of the situation.

One thing I have tried to do to help ease the fear of drowning is to make attempts to, in the spirit of the analogy, bring her to the kiddie pool where she can feel the bottom with her back and still have her head above water.

To do this I have removed any threat of entering into any actual poly relationships. Also, to help her understand that she would need to be the driving force behind any move in that direction. And also to let her know that even if she were to want to enter poly relationships, I would still resist until I saw certain signs that assured me she was solidly ready to try again. (and never, ever, quickly, or in the heat of infatuation, like the last time)

Thanks for the analogy, and for being part of the support system my wife is lucky to have here!
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  #24  
Old 03-09-2011, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RobFire View Post
I see a lot of wisdom in this analogy as well, and it strikes at the heart of the situation.

One thing I have tried to do to help ease the fear of drowning is to make attempts to, in the spirit of the analogy, bring her to the kiddie pool where she can feel the bottom with her back and still have her head above water.

To do this I have removed any threat of entering into any actual poly relationships. Also, to help her understand that she would need to be the driving force behind any move in that direction. And also to let her know that even if she were to want to enter poly relationships, I would still resist until I saw certain signs that assured me she was solidly ready to try again. (and never, ever, quickly, or in the heat of infatuation, like the last time)

Thanks for the analogy, and for being part of the support system my wife is lucky to have here!
These are great thoughts, and I am glad you are thinking this way. But be prepared for some surprise emotions if and when the time comes to go back in the water. Talking and reading only does so much, when full faced with the situation, no matter how prepared you are, there may be emotions that weren't expected.

I say this as a hope to save you some of the things Karma and I went through. Karma and I had a talk about how I needed to see him and Cricket together. I need to see kissing and cuddling and whatnot, because without seeing it, I convinced myself it wasn't happening and that did nothing for healing and moving forward. Shortly after expressing this need, Cricket stayed the night. I went to bed early because I was having a hard time seeing them together. Yes they were doing what I asked, and hurt a lot more than I expected. I still needed it to happen though. This led to an argument between Karma and I. He felt I was telling him it was no longer okay, or that it was his fault for hurting me, or that I was going backwards (having said it was okay and then hurting). I had to explain to him that I knew it would be painful to see them together, but in order for me to heal I needed to see it.

This is what I mean by being prepared. That night caused a huge fight. Karma was hurting because I was hurting. He even offered to break up with Cricket to make it easier on me. That was not what I wanted at all. But I was still healing, I was not going to be okay with things over night. Just because it hurt, didn't mean I wanted it to stop. It was something I had to go through to get to the otherside.

Don't abandon all hope. Work together. Be honest with eachother. Be aware of your needs and make them known. Healing takes time and comes in stages.
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  #25  
Old 03-09-2011, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonshadow View Post
hello im new here and i just started reading some of the threads, ive noticed alot of parrellels in your relationship with your husband and my own marriage. I'm in a situation like yours and trying to understand everything and your thread has actually helped a good deal. thank you
I too see some parallels with my own marriage. We're married for 13 years, I've had him all to myself. Now we are dating another woman and I feel the jealousy. It is very difficult to learn about all these new emotions that I thought I was completely prepared for but, apparently, was not. There is a part of me that wants to call the whole thing off, tell him I cannot do this and lose the girlfriend... but another part of me wants this because I have seen what we are when we are together.

Good luck to you both and thank you for sharing your story.
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  #26  
Old 03-17-2011, 12:51 AM
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Sometimes I feel conflicted as far as getting involved with someone who is cheating. Likely my conflict is clouded by my infatuation, and my brain rationalizes it as being ok. But...I think I did feel some resentment towards Rob for not wanting me to become involved with someone who I did care deeply for, because the man was married and cheating. Rob was being logical about it. I know Rob meant well and wanted me to not become involved out of love and care for me. Likely the man would have lied to me if he was willing to lie to his wife, I may end up feeling hurt, and it was not fair to the man's wife. Rob also made a good point that someone who does that lacks courage.

I think I felt resentment because I don't want to feel like I am being controlled as to who I can and cannot date. I don't become infatuated or get attached to someone very easily, but when I do it is hard and fast, and I want to take action on it as soon as possible. Its raw, primitive, and I don't want to be stopped. That is what was going thorough my head. Emotions and sexual energy running rampant. Need to keep my ID in check though. And be fair to Rob and to all others involved. I can't just think about myself and my primitive needs. But it can be difficult. Plus...I certainly would want to be ok with whomever Rob would have been dating. I am a hypocrite and this causes guilt feelings in me.

Has anyone ever had anything positive come out of being involved with someone who was cheating on their partner?
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  #27  
Old 03-17-2011, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RitaFire View Post
Has anyone ever had anything positive come out of being involved with someone who was cheating on their partner?
Yes, but only when the cheating stopped. Til then, being the reason someone needed to lie to another woman felt like total shit.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 03-17-2011 at 01:28 AM.
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  #28  
Old 03-17-2011, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RitaFire View Post
Sometimes I feel conflicted as far as getting involved with someone who is cheating. Likely my conflict is clouded by my infatuation, and my brain rationalizes it as being ok. But...I think I did feel some resentment towards Rob for not wanting me to become involved with someone who I did care deeply for, because the man was married and cheating. Rob was being logical about it. I know Rob meant well and wanted me to not become involved out of love and care for me. Likely the man would have lied to me if he was willing to lie to his wife, I may end up feeling hurt, and it was not fair to the man's wife. Rob also made a good point that someone who does that lacks courage.

I think I felt resentment because I don't want to feel like I am being controlled as to who I can and cannot date. I don't become infatuated or get attached to someone very easily, but when I do it is hard and fast, and I want to take action on it as soon as possible. Its raw, primitive, and I don't want to be stopped. That is what was going thorough my head. Emotions and sexual energy running rampant. Need to keep my ID in check though. And be fair to Rob and to all others involved. I can't just think about myself and my primitive needs. But it can be difficult. Plus...I certainly would want to be ok with whomever Rob would have been dating. I am a hypocrite and this causes guilt feelings in me.

Has anyone ever had anything positive come out of being involved with someone who was cheating on their partner?
We just had a talk about the feelings that Rita has that made the idea of being with these men exciting.

I am a little at a loss when trying to relate, though I do really want to see her side of the equation.

On my side of the equation the idea just scares me for the following reasons:
  • I do not want to see my wife become emotionally invested in someone who may get her embroiled into a hurtful, painful outing when they are eventually found out.
  • I do not sit well with the concept that my wife would be engaging in deceptive behavior herself. It's almost like giving tacit approval for deceit and dishonesty, even though it may not be directed at me.
  • My wife deserves soooooooooooo much better, and I feel she'd be ultimately short-changing herself and taking her time and energy away from other more fruitful relationships.
It's really good she's on here. I am hoping that seeing what joy and excitement an honest new relationship can bring, it will cast a heavier shadow on the "dirty little secret" scenario.
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  #29  
Old 03-17-2011, 04:57 AM
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Ritafire, a man like that doesn't show integrity... not to mention other qualities such as respect, honesty, good communication, and consideration... To me these are the foundations of a good relationship, especially a poly one. Other people believe other things, but that is what I base my relationships on. I expect these things and give these things in return. There is a discussion on this on "The Rules/foundations of poly" thread that can be found if you do a tag search for poly... I send people there so much because I think people short change themselves, just as Robfire is saying.

Primitive need and connection is awesome, I get that entirely. I have engaged a man who was married with this kind of energy and can tell you that while the lead up is just as much a draw and has just as much appeal as with a man that is not cheating, the moment the deed of cheating is done physically, for me, there is a sense of dread and fear. This with my own cheating of the past also. Why? Because I realize immediately what I have become a part of and there is no turning back... I really have short changed myself. I could of had great and instead settled for not just okay, but dreadful.

Men who cheat are deceiving themselves I think. They get so used to it sometimes that they don't realize that they are deceiving themselves and create whole fantastical scenarios in their head that what they have done is in some way okay... ya, they will lie to you I think because they are lying to themselves. They might even get angry because they think you should be okay with it too. But the moment the purity of that primitive need for connection is gone is the moment that the lie spirals into something dark and foreboding. Something dangerously dreadful somehow. Hard to explain.

Don't bother. Robfire is not trying to give you a veto I don't think. At least it didn't sound like it from where I sit, but he is expressing what this will do to not only you, but him. I think he will lose respect for you if you were to engage a married man. Not only would this man's integrity be tarnished, but so would yours. Your good name would be tarnished. You would not be seen as respectful towards others, considerate or honest... is all that worth it for that primal need you have?

Surely there are other men out there that are worth your time. You are a valued woman by your partner and should be by other men also. Your sense of self worth is worth more than anything. A cheating man would take that all away from you I think... having experienced this before... and having processed the hell out of the experience.
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  #30  
Old 03-17-2011, 05:53 AM
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I'm a firm believer in the idea that there are always exceptions to the rule.

BUT-as someone who cheated, please, don't get involved with someone who is cheating.

It can really fuck you up. I was the cheater, it fucked me up.
It fucked up the man I was cheating with.
It fucked up the man I was cheating on.


I agree with your husband, YOU deserve better.

If I could do it all again-I'd still be madly in love with GG, but we wouldn't have cheated, we would have been honest and upfront.

Because the damage that we did to OURSELVES and to Maca, isn't worth it.
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