Lets start a revolution

[River]

I very much like what you had to say, Charlie.

However, I doubt that polyamory supporters and livers constitute a "community". We're more like a network, I suppose.

I do think we are and should be revolutionaries, of a sort. And I do think we should do our best to represent ourselves well in the eyes of the wider world. So thanks.

[LovingRadiance]

[QUOTE=MeeraReed;69895] I have some thoughts that I think may help you understand where people are coming from in our reactions to Disillusioned (maybe it will help him/her as well).

I have to say I'm kind of shocked at the responses Disillusioned has gotten here. I'm surprised especially at the reactions from NYCIndie, Redpepper, and Mono--I've been reading on this site for a few months now, you three always post such awesome, insightful and supportive comments.

Mono is nothing if not a self-proclaimed MONOGAMOUS PERSON. As such, he has repeatedly pointed out to people that if you want to convince a mono person that poly isn't bad, it's going to take some FINESSE, not a bat to their head.
As he and his family have managed to convince his family and RP's family and presumably polynerdists family as well that this poly-dynamic of theirs is good.... it stands to reason that his logic is based in experience, not random emotional tirades.

Likewise, for those of us (like myself) who are dating monogamous people... it's offensive to have someone rail on monogamy as being "wrong". FORCED monogamy-I absolutely agree with you. Chosen monogamy, I do not. While it is true that society at large pushes monogamy, there are many of us who have educated ourselves and of those, many who have chosen monogamy for it's benefits not becuase it's "the norm" and that should be allowed. That was not something that Disillusioned allowed for in his/her statements.

I think, frankly, that you guys misunderstood Disillusioned's originally post, and then you picked at him until he got super-defensive. Then you accused him of trollishness and flaming. [Maybe I missed some deleted posts, though.]

I myself watched for a bit before I commented. I found that the posts got more and more offensive as the days passed by.

Anyway, I'm emerging from lurker status to defend Disillusioned.

Welcome to the boards.

However, the first post I have encountered here that really captured exactly how I feel was Disillusioned's original "Let's start a revolution" post. When I read it, I immediately thought, Yes, that's exactly how I feel!

I'm glad you found something that resonated with you-how YOU chose to word your emotions in the rest of your post was very respectful and honoring of the differences that abound between people. However, Disillusioned did not.
In fact, the repeated comments made were that while in theory there was much about the posts that we agreed with, the tone was offensive. With repeated requests for the tone to be "toned down" so that conversation, contemplation and communication was possible. But, that didn't happen.

I do NOT think Disillusioned was trying to tell anyone on this list that it's wrong to feel you are monogamous. He was just trying to generate a spirit of activism to tackle our society's mono-centric culture.

If that wasn't the intent, then it was not good communication skills to state that monogamy was wrong.....

I, too, would really like to shatter "the myth of monogamy." Of course plenty of people are happy being monogamous. But plenty of people also aren't--and those people (like ME) have ALMOST NOWHERE to turn for support--except "alternative lifestyle" support groups and forums like this one--because there is NO mainstream acceptance of non-monogamy.

Many of the people who are "bitching" in this thread ARE activists that are fighting visibly to accomplish exactly this. But, they're doing so with respect and integrity towards the people who choose to be monogamous. I suspect that is why there's so much vehement animosity towards someone who shouts disrespectfully against any monogamy... because it makes THEM look like they too have no respect for anyone who chooses monogamy, when in fact that isn't true.
Furthermore-many of them (us) have been studying and practicing non-violent communication and to see such violent communication hoisted out upon us in a way as to suggest that we should agree with it simply because we are polyamorous is highly offensive as well....

I do understand that we have a basic disagreement going on here: most people in the poly community (or on this forum, or on this thread, or whatever) have arrived at an understanding that some people are poly and some are mono and that everyone has a different path to happiness/ sex/ relationships, etc. Well, that's true, obviously.

But what I (and Disillusioned) disagree with the rest of you about is that we'd like to see a greater social movement promoting non-monogamy as a viable lifestyle, and that we'd like to shatter the myth that monogamy is the only way. Because I really do believe that our culture is perpetuating a lie.

What makes you or he believe that we're in disagreement on this? Have you taken the time to look into the history of the people who were so pissed to see how involved they are publicly at promoting polyamory? Also, as an aside, non-monogamy and polyamory aren't the same thing. They are related, but it's generally accepted that polyamory is a subset (one of several) under non-monogamy. Not all poly people are interested in promoting all of the subsets, as they aren't involved in or know anything about the other subsets.

I guess I'm sort of puzzled as to why the poly community doesn't seem to want to advocate greater social action? (And maybe I'm not really "poly," then?)

I think you are making a huge (incorrect assumption) about what the poly-communities what to advocate. There are in fact threads on the board about just exactly that, promoting more ways to do precisely that, where and how to get involved etc.
I'm also not sure what that has to do with you being poly or not.

An example of what I mean: over the last 30 years or so, the gay community [not that there's one community...maybe I mean the gay rights movement] has done an excellent job of changing our society [I'm American, I guess I'm mostly talking about American society] so that being gay is now accepted as a norm. (Except in very conservative subcultures).

Here in may lie another issue. MANY of the people who are on the board here are NOT in the U.S....... So presuming that they are living with the same strictures and issues is a bad move. In fact, from what I can tell many of them are in an area of Canada that is much much more accepting of polyamory that any of us "americans" (read U.S. citizens) is used to.

Additionally, I live in the US and where I live there doesn't seem to be much give a shit one way or the other about gays or non-monogamy. No one gives a shit about that stuff here. Not against it, not for it. Pretty much it's a "do what the hell you want to do" state...

(Right now, I can't even find a therapist who doesn't think I have major issues just because I don't want to be with one person forever!)

That sucks, but you need to keep looking, becuase even here in Alaska, where it's hard to find any professionals in quantity, I've found a therapist who was polyamorous....

[LovingRadiance]

Charlie,
I always love what you have to say.
Keep talking (writing..)

[disillusioned]

[QUOTE=LovingRadiance;69959]

Originally Posted by MeeraReed

Likewise, for those of us (like myself) who are dating monogamous people... it's offensive to have someone rail on monogamy as being "wrong".

I didn't say that the individual *practice* of monogamy is wrong. People can do whatever they want. It was my post, I was talking about myself.

I repeatedly said that I'm talking in theoretical / academic / philosophical terms, and when I said that "monogamy is wrong" I was referring to the totality of what "monogamy" represents as outlined in the many posts above.

[a hegemonic superstructure - accepted a priori and presented as our default and natural behavior]

According to you, nobody should say that "Racism is wrong" because he might be offending someone.

I'm young, enthusiastic and maybe provocative but I truly did not mean to offend anybody. If I did offend anyone, I apologize.

Happy Women's Day to all you girls out there

[Charlie]

I must admit to having been a little fired up yesterday and more than a little tired of seeing/hearing humans treat each other unkindly.

I am a big fan of being polite; I find that it is hard to disregard a polite person.

Also, I must acknowledge that I took the title of this thread "Let's start a revolution" more seriously than perhaps is healthy.

Too much NPR and BBC radio this month...

But here's a nice little anecdote for thought:

In the last few months I have made two incredible new friends, a married, monogamous gay couple, who adopted two kids a few years ago. The adoption was the first of its kind in their home state, requiring much legal hoop jumping and many lawyers, and was furthermore financed in part by the Catholic Church. The stipulation from the Church was that they could not go to the media. They agreed. Even wrote a nice thank you letter to the Pope, who did not respond.

Quite revolutionary. Quiet revolutionary. No big press conference, but who cares? There are now two beautiful children being raised up in a solid, loving, respectful, educated family. A more tolerant family. A 21st century family.

The revolution is already happening, one healthy relationship at a time.

But it will take time.

Quality takes time.

[bella123456]

Charlie - I also side-stepped a discussion which included the word "revolution"

As that's a word I take seriously.
There are pretty significant "revolutionary" actions taking place in the world...


It is amazing !!
It's probably not 1968 or anything like that...but...inspiring..

Could I suggest Paul Kelly ? An Aussie favourite - "From little things big things grow"

[Charlie]

Paul Kelly-"From Little Things Big Things Grow"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ndC07C2qw

Thank you, bella.

[bella123456]

That is indeed a happy song for me !

[bella123456]

I'm happy to provide historical info that sits behind this song...If people are interested..

Although - It's all there..

[Magdlyn]

Originally Posted by disillusioned

I'm young, enthusiastic and maybe provocative but I truly did not mean to offend anybody. If I did offend anyone, I apologize.

Thank you for the apology, disillusioned.