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  #61  
Old 03-06-2011, 03:22 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catbird View Post
...what does 'thanks for the bacon' mean? .
Jumping in to say, Paul declared all foods clean, whereas for centuries before, "Jews" had been avoiding eating pork because of what was said in the Torah (Leviticus).

New Christian thought was, it was more important what came out of your mouth than what went in. However, Jewish Christians were still commanded to avoid eating meats that Gentiles had offered to a Greek deity before cooking and eating it.
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  #62  
Old 03-06-2011, 11:51 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Have any of you read Divine Sex: Liberating Sex From Religious Tradition by Philo Thelos?

I ask, because I'm reading it right now. It's not at all what i thought it would be based on the title. The writer was a pastor in a christian church for 36 years.
His purpose in the book is to show what the Bible itself actually teaches regarding sex, instead of what the church has decided is correct.
I'm only half way through teh book and let me tell you what, it's VERY interesting.

The section I'm in right now is about "adultery" and what the term in Hebrew meant (which is not sex with partners other than your spouse, something I already knew). It's VERY VERY intriguing as it basically comes out that the Bible doesn't teach anything against multiple lovers when you are married, or multiple marriages for that matter.

It might be something you would find interesting to read if this is a topic you are trying to reconcile for yourselves also. I know it's been eye-opening for me and not in a bad way.
Nowhere does the author in any way twist the words that are written, in fact he seems to be dead set in his faith in Jesus as the savior and in his confidence in the Bible being the perfect word of God. He quotes the Bible fully-not partially, so no manipulation of pieces and parts for convenience.

Well worth the read. He also gives a LOT of information in the back on where to get additional information about studying the Bible, the languages and the history.
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  #63  
Old 03-07-2011, 03:40 AM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
Have any of you read Divine Sex: Liberating Sex From Religious Tradition by Philo Thelos?

I ask, because I'm reading it right now. It's not at all what i thought it would be based on the title. The writer was a pastor in a christian church for 36 years.
His purpose in the book is to show what the Bible itself actually teaches regarding sex, instead of what the church has decided is correct.
I'm only half way through teh book and let me tell you what, it's VERY interesting.
I've read it LR, a couple of years ago when I was first researching the concept of polyamory. I found it to be extremely interesting and eye-opening, particularly the examination of the discrepancies between Scripture actually says and church traditions that have grown up around Mankind's interpretations of those Scriptures. It revolutionized the way I think about a lot of things.

If you want someone to discuss it with, I'd be glad to re-read it so we could be book buddies. PM me if you're interested.
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  #64  
Old 03-07-2011, 09:18 PM
jasminegld jasminegld is offline
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...And a believer has to decide about having faith in the Bible. ... We're dealing with an ancient culture, having as much to do with life today as a culture from Mars might.
I'm not interested in changing people's minds about their religion on this message board. I'm interested in how their religious beliefs affect the way they deal with polyamory.

If someone else believes that the Bible is sacred Scripture that speaks truth to them, then that person might need to reconcile the Bible with polyamory. I've had experience doing this. I'm interested in talking Bible and polyamory with this person. Or some other aspect of their religion. I'm interested in conversations that might lead to answers WITHIN their religion, not simply tossing it aside for expedience.

If someone believes the Bible is irrelevant, then that person doesn't need to reconcile the Bible with polyamory. And that's fine. But it's not okay to tell someone else to toss aside their religion. It might stop them from talking about things they really want to talk about. It might make them feel unwelcome on this message board.

Just as I object to a monogamous-minded person telling me that polyamory is all impossible fantasy that can never ever work and I must return to monogamy, I also object to a secular-minded person telling me that my religion or Bible is irredeemable flawed and I must cast it off.

If we polys want people to be tolerant of us, we need to be tolerant of each other.
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  #65  
Old 03-07-2011, 09:42 PM
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"If we polys want people to be tolerant of us, we need to be tolerant of each other.[/QUOTE]

Well said...
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  #66  
Old 03-08-2011, 03:18 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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jasmine,
have you read the book I mentinoed?
I just finished it.

Having been raised Christian and still very much believing many of the precepts, but not choosing to associate myself with any one sect I found the book very helpful on a faith level.

I thought it was exemplary that this pastor decided to show how the Bible actually doesn't speak out against non-monogamy. Very daring and very awesome!
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  #67  
Old 03-10-2011, 12:04 AM
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Catbird:
Nice to meet you too! As Magdlyn pointed out, Paul essentially made the greatest of all foods accessible to Christians. He also tends to give me the greatest conflicts in reading the Bible.

Jasminegld:
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Originally Posted by jasminegld View Post
When we talk with conservative Christian family and friends, it doesn't do any good to criticize Paul's credentials or any other part of the Bible. It's more effective to understand the religious concerns of the person we're talking with and speak to those concerns in religious language.
I usually try not to do ad hominem, seriously. . I meant it from the "already questioning" perspective and context criticism. You're absolutely right about not attacking a person's religion just to make your point. I wouldn't do that to someone unfamiliar with poly, but from a frustrated Christian point of view, it's easy (for me at least) to slip and discredit parts that don't feel right..


LR:
I haven't started Divine Sex yet, LR. I just finished The Ethical Slut, and DS is next. Since we just found this community in January, we ordered a few of the recommended books and are taking them in turn.

Since you've finished it, in retrospect are there any parts you (or anyone else, for that matter) recommend paying particular attention to, or re-reading in DS? I'm going to start it this weekend.
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Last edited by brainfreezy; 03-10-2011 at 12:20 AM. Reason: Combine multiple posts into one slightly-less verbose post
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  #68  
Old 03-10-2011, 12:16 AM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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I just started Divine Sex and haven't gotten past the first chapter yet (too many distractions), but am really impressed so far. It started me on a whole other set of issues I'm dealing with within my family and their religous snobbery . He lists alot of Bible verses, but only a pharaphrased version is in the book, I find it helpful to be able to look up some of the verses in the Bible I have normally use and then look up different translations online, as I go along.
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  #69  
Old 03-10-2011, 12:46 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I highly suggest reading the foreward and intro. They really do put the whole thing in perspective (generally I advise skipping these, but this book, no way).

As for the rest, my biggest suggestion would be to take each section slowly enough that you can contemplate it before moving on to the next chapter. Its well worth taking the time to consider the information.

I haven't read the Ethical Slut. I tried, and got so bored in under 3 pages, I dropped it.

However, I have read quite a few different books in the last year pertaining to poly, as well as a number of blogs. They are listed in my blog on their own separate page, if you are looking for ideas after those two books.

Also, check out UUPA. I haven't rummaged through the whole site, but it's a group of poly's from the UU church. You may find interesting stuff there as well. (Did I write that already? If so I apologize!)
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  #70  
Old 03-10-2011, 01:05 AM
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I haven't read the Ethical Slut. I tried, and got so bored in under 3 pages, I dropped it.
No kidding... ES takes a little bit to get going. I had your reaction after the first chapter, but it picked up. It's basically an exhaustive introduction to the lifestyle full of practical advice and personal accounts. I found it very useful in some parts and not all that helpful in others. However, they reiterate things a lot, so you really can pick a chapter at random and just read what interests you. There is no real flow, and the chapters are not dependent upon each other. It strikes me as a collection of short papers written on the subject, assembled and edited into a book, (it might even be that). You can skip the intro and conclusion, but the end of the book is chock full of references and further reading. Overall opinion: Useful enough to be a keeper (at least to poly-n00bs like us).

I checked out UUPA. There weren't any Colorado churches, so that was kind of a downer, but as far as my search goes, I'm really just looking for an open, loving Christian church, doesn't have to be poly. Also, I'm in no big hurry to go either. It's cool that they're out there.
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