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  #21  
Old 03-04-2011, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by disillusioned View Post
It is not wrong "for me". It is just plane wrong


So.... yea, I'm enthusiastic. I think this is huge. It is the equivalent to "the death of god" (Nietzsche). It is equivalent to the discovery of the steam engine. Left to our biology and stripped from the control of religion, our entire society should have been organized RADICALLY differently.

(Yes, I know, they tried it in the 60s...)

Anyway... my two cents.
wow, more than two cents

There are a lot of things that are huge in the world... your personal relationship with your self is not one of them. This is "wrong" for just you. If you have read some of the threads and posts here you will see that...

It is rather disrespectful of other peoples journeys to say otherwise. It's disrespectful I think, to people on this very forum who come here to try and understand... who make an attempt to meet us half way and to look for ways we can work together and be together in this world.

It's akin to born again Christians telling me to find Christ or Jehovah Witnesses coming to my door with fear that I might not be saved and go to heaven when judgement day comes... or whatever, I shut off when they start ..... why? Because it's disrespectful and I am uninterested if I am feeling disrespected. It gets my back up, I get defensive and I immediately am in fight mod rather than in empathy/listening/respect/wonder mod.

Poly is based on some foundations that translate to other areas in life... in other relationships. People come here thinking they are going to talk about poly, but really they are largely talking about basic relationship dynamics and how to communicate and be respectful to one another... while I get and cherish your passion I find it difficult to accommodate your style of delivery.

I say this, as I once delivered my passion in a similar way... the point is to find ways to present your passion to those who don't get it in a way that they find interest in investigating more. Shutting them out by telling them they are "wrong" is not going to do that in my opinion. At least this is what I have learned.

It takes many different people to make a village...

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Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
Eagles, some vultures, beavers maybe elephants...I'm sure the list is long..
parrots! the animal for poly... they are, in fact, monogamous

Quote:
Originally Posted by disillusioned View Post
Making people to ask questions is not to attack them.... I wish someone "attacked " me like that when I was 15. Educating and advocating monogamy is, to me, nothing less than imoral.
You know what, when I was 15 I wish I had been accepted as a Lesbian! No one even knew what one was in my small town, let alone that it could occur!!!! That is not immoral! That is just lack of education!

People advocate for what they grew up with. They grew up with it, because it served a purpose... to keep us on the same page. The thing is that once we know there are options its important to explore them, try them on, choose them or not and move forward... I believe in educating others to those options as I go along. How does morality fit with that?

It's like saying to a family of brown haired people who lived out in the wild for their whole lives, never having seen a red head, that they are wrong for having brown hair and should dye it red. *WHA?* confusion would follow. Why not patiently explain that it is an option if they want to chose it...you did and it works for you.... why not say what ever they chose is okay...

You would have them all red heads by the end of tomorrow..!. something tells me you would be forced to leave before that happens and would create hatred for the very idea of having red hair. Not to mention created a closet for one or more family members that might of liked to of tried it..... that to me is what is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disillusioned View Post
I really need to read more about poly... what do you do about kids, if you want them? If you have a main relationship and then 2nds, how is that different from an open relationship?
Are you serious! .....

Dude.

Please.... please.... with all due respect to all of us here... please do some reading and researching before telling people they are wrong and immoral... HA! *head shake* LOL....

Look, you are totally welcome here. don't get me wrong. We all have our journey, but I just lost a year of my life over your posts only to find out you think you should find out more about poly??? K, that hasn't happened to me for a while on here...

carry on. good luck.

*sigh*
ha!

*moving on*
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  #22  
Old 03-04-2011, 02:01 AM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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The OP's username is aptly chosen, it would seem.
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  #23  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:47 AM
disillusioned disillusioned is offline
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Hmmmmm

We are talking on two different levels here. You talk about "options". If you are gay, is it an option for you? Do you opt to be gay? Or were you born with the option to be gay and then you decide on which side you are on?

I understand that you guys here are poly and you feel that its a choice that you made. I'm here because I realized something else - that we are All, by nature, not monogamous creatures. This mainly relates to sex and I'm talking purely on the academic level of facts,logic, my personal experience etc. And it has nothing to do with choice - it is biological determinism. You don't have the "option " to not eat. You don't have the option to decide if you want to die after X years or live for ever. Nobody asks you... that's just life. And if you were born gay....? That's not an option for you either, right ?

Is it immoral to tell a little boy that he should not "like " other boys because it is "wrong " and he should no be gay? I think yes.

I think it is immoral to "teach " monogamy. I think it is more immoral than teaching "god " because "god " works against our mind and freedom but monogamy works against our body. It is so ingrained into us that even here, on a poly discussion board, I need to defend myself and explain my meaning 5 times.

Last edited by disillusioned; 03-04-2011 at 07:07 AM.
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  #24  
Old 03-04-2011, 06:57 AM
disillusioned disillusioned is offline
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Also, I think realizing that we are not monogamous creatures can only help you guys here, because it explains everything.... why people want / need more than one relationship, why you can have feelings towards two or more people...

I understand that many of you guys feel "special " and more mature than others, and "different ". Then I come along and say "no... you are not different at all ". I understand why this would make you to not like me...

You are special because you were strong enough to see thru the lies. Now be strong enough to realize that you are NOT special in that we were all born non monogamous, and that this is all pure biology and nothing else... and that being poly is a RESULT of this non monogamous nature.

Are you here just to comfort each other or do you also want to find out the reason for all of this and why you are how you are?

Last edited by disillusioned; 03-04-2011 at 07:02 AM.
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  #25  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:13 AM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disillusioned View Post

I understand that many of you guys feel "special " and more mature than others, and "different ". Then I come along and say "no... you are not different at all ". I understand why this would make you to not like me...

You are special because you were strong enough to see thru the lies. Now be strong enough to realize that you are NOT special in that we were all born non monogamous, and that this is all pure biology and nothing else...
It's not that people don't like you disillusioned..it's that you are making blanket statement about every person in the world when the only person you know is yourself. I think it is great that you have done some self research and read some literature, but you're "I am right" attitude makes your opinions seem from a place of bitterness and over excitement that you have found something new. The people on this board have worlds of experience in poly beyond what you can hope to achieve simply through reading. They live it...they have learned through personal experience, real exposure to what you seem to have only read about.

You haven't pointed anything out to anyone. We are not all born non-monogamous my friend....just like we are all not born gay or straight. The only person you can speak about with any authority and credibility is yourself. That's it, your true knowledge does not extend beyond your own mind and heart. Your assumptions that you know anything beyond yourself is what creates the need to explain yourself over and over. Learn to accept that other people know themselves better than anyone else and that there are no definites....then your message will be better received.

There is no acceptance to be gained through your approach..only resistance. Show some acceptance, step down from the position of being all knowing about the human race and just share your "experiences" with us. That is the way to show people how good what you believe in is
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Last edited by NeonKaos; 03-04-2011 at 12:41 PM.
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  #26  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:15 AM
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Just read this again....you're getting resistance form a board that is very poly orientated...why is that? You really need to do some heavy reading on here my friend. All your misconceptions about how people think on here is do to not having read the stories and thoughts of those who contribute.

Just trying to help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disillusioned View Post
Also, I think realizing that we are not monogamous creatures can only help you guys here, because it explains everything.... why people want / need more than one relationship, why you can have feelings towards two or more people...

I understand that many of you guys feel "special " and more mature than others, and "different ". Then I come along and say "no... you are not different at all ". I understand why this would make you to not like me...

You are special because you were strong enough to see thru the lies. Now be strong enough to realize that you are NOT special in that we were all born non monogamous, and that this is all pure biology and nothing else... and that being poly is a RESULT of this non monogamous nature.

Are you here just to comfort each other or do you also want to find out the reason for all of this and why you are how you are?
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Last edited by MonoVCPHG; 03-04-2011 at 07:17 AM.
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  #27  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:21 AM
disillusioned disillusioned is offline
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We are not all born gay or straight ... but these are preferences, orientations...

The question if are we monogamous creatures or not is one level deeper. It is about the core, the basis.. what is the underlining nature of our sexual drives and needs. Sexual preferences come way way later down the road. Do you see the difference?

Last edited by disillusioned; 03-04-2011 at 07:25 AM.
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  #28  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disillusioned View Post
We are not all born gay or straight ... but these are preferences, orientations...

The question if are we monogamous creatures or not is one level deeper. It is about the core, the basis.. what is the underlining nature of our sexual nature. Sexual preferences come way way later down the road. Do you see the difference?
I think you are implying that sexual orientation is learned later in life. I am not even touching that one I must admit I am not sure where you are going with this but ultimately I find it ironic that a monogamous person is defending the valid ideas and experiences of people on a poly board; why is that when I could just focus on my own certainty of monogamy within myself?...because I accept that people are only truly known to themselves, by themselves.

The truth of our individual orientations and preferences resides in each of us..not in the opinions of any person regardless of education or credentials.

To tell people they are a certain way, born a certain way, love a certain way or want certain things is nothing more than dictatorship. This is not a community that abides by that type or authoritative approach.

Everyone is free to express ideas on here. But we are almost always careful to own those ideas and not cast them on to others.

This is where you can develop skills to share your positive feelings and beliefs without causing a natural defensive posture in your audience. If people who are poly react this way imagine what the rest of mainstream monogamous society will react like?

Stop saying "you are wrong" and start saying "look at this wonderful thing I have discovered".
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  #29  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:44 AM
disillusioned disillusioned is offline
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I'm not saying orientation is learned, exactly the opposite. It is coded into your DNA and you are born a certain way. And your core sexual and emotional behavior is coded in you too, and I'm saying it is not monogamous.

You are all really nice and open people. I have an advanced degree in the social sciences (but I'm not American as you can tell) so I look at things in an academic and scientific way. I had articles published in my field and won awards for some of the things I wrote. We are just looking at things from a different perspective, you talk about the everyday experiences that people have here, I talk about the nature of our race.
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  #30  
Old 03-04-2011, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disillusioned View Post
I'm not saying orientation is learned, exactly the opposite. It is coded into your DNA and you are born a certain way. And your core sexual and emotional behavior is coded in you too, and I'm saying it is not monogamous.

You are all really nice and open people. I have an advanced degree in the social sciences (but I'm not American as you can tell) so I look at things in an academic and scientific way. I had articles published in my field and won awards for some of the things I wrote. We are just looking at things from a different perspective, you talk about the everyday experiences that people have here, I talk about the nature of our race.
Step down off your soapbox a little here... whether or not we are 'coded' as a species to be monogamous or non-monogamous... it IS somewhat presumptious of you to come in here spouting these things as the be all end all truth of things... particularly on a board that is supportive of both poly and mono people... neither are wrong ways to be... and coding? it may just be possible for 'rogue' coding to be out there - coding people as monogamous... (*noting I do not agree with the OP on this topic - i do not regard monogamy as 'rogue' i am simply relating it in answer to the terms the op was using)

if it is in the DNA it is still possible for people to be born monogamous, just as it is possible for people to be coded poly... it doesn't matter in the end - because in the end we each are who we are and that is what is at the heart of places like this - helping each of us accept ourselves as we are... and our partners.. however many we may have.

Essentially though the reason you are being jumped on and argued with is the patronising air to your posts... woop de do - you won awards - guess what i got medals in gymnastics and awards in chemistry/physics - doesn't make me an expert or in the slightest authorised to coach anyone in the fields - it also doesnt give me the right to put down the thoughts or opinions of anyone else - in any way shape or form

back up and slow down...

Edit: and the main reason I was answering this thread in the first bloody place... life would be far easier if the relationship 'norms' were not taught socially or in the education system... and by that i mean any relationship - gay/straight/bi/trans/mono/poly whatever ... ALL should be taught or none... I feel the seem about religions... but that is just me and my opinion
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Last edited by FlameKat; 03-04-2011 at 09:37 AM. Reason: more info
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