single or married (your preferences for secondary/etc relationships)

lovemultiplied

New member
My husbad and I have been having a debate and I wanted to put it out there....

When you're looking for other people to "date" or "form relationships with," do you feel that there's a difference between being with other people who have their own "primary" or are "stray singles" okay?

That might sound complicated...maybe this scenario/explanation will help:

I feel more comfortable if/when my husband is seeing women who have their own primary relationship... the last woman that he was seeing was single but interested in the poly lifestyle...and though she had "dated multiple men" before, she hadn't been in a relationship where the man she was seeing was married and in a primary relationship (her experiences had simply been with dating more than one person at a time).

In any case, I felt that since she was new to the poly world and already felt like the "other woman" (which, in all honesty - she was - however, as we all know...the "other woman" is an accepted title in this lifestyle...) it was going to cause problems later as she got more attached... and that the fact she didn't have her own primary relationship was going to cause us problems in the end as she fell harder for my husband.

So I apologize if that's confusing...but hopefully it makes SOME sense and will make for a great discussion!! :)
 
When you're looking for other people to "date" or "form relationships with," do you feel that there's a difference between being with other

In any case, I felt that since she was new to the poly world and already felt like the "other woman" (which, in all honesty - she was - however, as we all know...the "other woman" is an accepted title in this lifestyle...) it was going to cause problems later as she got more attached... and that the fact she didn't have her own primary relationship was going to cause us problems in the end as she fell harder for my husband.
It seems you are asking two things here... what we feel most comfortable in and what do we think might happen with this woman?

Hope I got that right.

I don't search for situations so much as for someone that suits me as a person.

I am not a good secondary. I don't subscribe to the hierarchy well after 13 years of poly. It is a struggle to me to be told that I am to fall behind someone's wife. I have a husband, a mono boyfriend and a married girlfriend. Also another married boyfriends... the first two work out great for me. I am their only attention. My husband is not dating someone right now, so I don't have to deal... and this is perfect for me... if I did have to engage a metamour on my husbands side I would.

My married girlfriend has a husband and two kids. Her husband is very respectful of our time and space and has never treated me like I should know my place. If he did I think he knows I would put up a fight :D I don't think its in his nature though...

My other boyfriend situation is entirely different and something I need to process with him more. He treats me like a secondary and she does too. He has kids and a job that require his time, and I get that. I think his wife gets the shaft though and I can understand why he would insist that I am secondary to her... the thing is that I require a certain amount of attention and I have laid it out for him what that means... he has said he is unable to give me what I need and we have begun negotiating what he CAN give. Cause at some point I lose interest.

What I require to be with someone is simple. Communication regularly; prompt communication if something major comes up; dates that come in a timely fashion... for him and I, once a month. I expect him to respect and care about my other loves and friends and what goes on in their lives... this requires listening to me talk about my life. To treat me with respect at all times and to consider my needs and feelings on matters that concern me. That's it. To me that is the basics. To me that is what anyone with a primary would do... why should it be different for a secondary. What he struggles with is the considering my needs and feelings part and the communicating regularly part. The first he doesn't think he should concern himself with too much and the second he just sucks at with everyone in his life. As I said, work in progress.

Might I suggest doing a tag search on "secondary" there are some really good threads that might help put things in perspective.
 
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Well... maybe!!? LOL

I appreciate your advice!

That relationship has since ended for my husband... ( I didn't expect it to last awhile as she was hesitant to meet me) but we've been debating the single/married thing for awhile now (with respect to people we're considering dating/forming relationships with) and figured where better a place than here :D

I will go check out the "tags" :D
 
I would try to just gauge if a person by who they are, as an individual, and see if you get along and seem compatible. If one tries to limit prospects to people in a certain situation, it's possible to miss out on someone very right.

That being said, although I'm a solo unattached person and am open to having a poly relationship with a married guy, the idea does intimidate me a bit. I've been corresponding for months with a married poly guy but haven't met him yet, and I realize it's because the idea overwhelms me. I've really only been drawn to single guys. Just seems like too much potential drama to ask for, if I date a married poly person.

But I'm trying not to filter out too much and just let myself respond to the person, not his situation, and acknowledge for myself that dating someone married would be new and weird for me.

I would hope, however, that any potential partner who is married wouldn't judge me by my past relationships, and that he would simply relate to me for my personality and let our interactions and chemistry determine if he wants to be involved.

I would never want to be in a poly relationship with anyone who gives his wife veto power, with the potential to discard me according to his wife's whims or insecurities. Not saying that's what you're doing, but I don't understand your apprehension about your husband finding someone else who would feel an "attachment" to him. Do you only want your husband to find someone to just have sex with him only, but not feel any romance or love or affection for him? That would put her in a position of being sort of a plaything -- where is the consideration and respect for her? You wouldn't be able to control the feelings of anyone he gets involved with, anyway.
 
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I would never want to be in a poly relationship with anyone who gives his wife veto power, with the potential to discard me according to his wife's whims or insecurities.
Oh ya! BLah! I get that its important to discuss and set good boundaries that make everyone feel safe and secure in their position, but being discarded because some other person says so is not going to fly with me either... I think I have come too far for that now anyway. Some are very hesitant and need some kind of assurance that if the going gets tough they get to say stop.. really they should be slowing down and going at the pace of that person rather than stopping though I think.
 
Honestly, I don't know what I'm asking/saying/wanting in all of this.

I suppose a lot of it comes from a lifelong mistrust of most women... which was enhanced by this particular woman's reluctance to meet me and her telling me that she was unsure if she would ever be able to. I think that only enhanced some of my insecurities and feelings and questions of her motives... which really ultimately created a problem both in my head and with me, which caused problems for my husband.

We've been living this lifestyle together for 3 years now, and I've been of the poly mentality my entire adult life... but regardless - I guess the way I was feeling, was that things with them were making me uncomfortable - her being single and new to poly, her reluctance to meet me, and just a couple others things that I'll save you all from the gory details... that really started things off on the wrong foot for me, including some "omissions of information" and some nondisclosure issues between my husband and I... that made for a difficult beginning.

I think, though, that regardless... a huge part of this whole lifestyle is finding the comfort zone and having open communication...and when something tips that balance of comfort, it needs to be discussed.

I'm trying to learn and grow as a person in all of this... so I appreciate your advice, questions, and honesty.

Thank you!!
 
ETA: It wasn't my veto that caused things to end, but rather a combination of things that spiraled into her realizing that this might not be for her....

(The only thing that we have "veto" with for each other, that we agreed upon, was that if our lifestyle was going to ruin our marriage then a) we'd have to seriously evaluate the situation (and the very foundation of our marriage) and b) we'd have to evaluate the lifestyle for us... though I think it would be really hard to go back to strict monogamy.)
 
What matters to me most is that they understand what poly is about, and that my existing relationships are important, and that they leave me enough time for them and respect them.
After that, whether they are poly or mono, in other relationships or not, it doesn't matter that much. I would say my ideal situation would be either someone who is poly and has someone else, or if they're single (whether mono or poly) someone who has a very full job (time consuming job, for instance, or a very full social life).
The point is that whether they're dating me or my partner, I don't want them to feel neglected, I don't want either of us to feel like we /have/ to spend time with them. It shouldn't become some kind of chore because they're "needy" or whatever, it should be something positive to look forward to.

I don't really follow the primary/secondary model, so if they have other relationships, I'm not going to wonder where exactly they rank. And as I said, it doesn't need to be a relationship, it can be a hobby or something, it's just important for me that they have other things in their life so that even if we can't see each other as often as we might want, they won't end up lonely and bored.
 
ETA: It wasn't my veto that caused things to end, but rather a combination of things that spiraled into her realizing that this might not be for her....

(The only thing that we have "veto" with for each other, that we agreed upon, was that if our lifestyle was going to ruin our marriage then a) we'd have to seriously evaluate the situation (and the very foundation of our marriage) and b) we'd have to evaluate the lifestyle for us... though I think it would be really hard to go back to strict monogamy.)
Oh ya, I didn't hear you say you have a veto agreement... I was just saying.:)
 
I would say my ideal situation would be either someone who is poly and has someone else, or if they're single (whether mono or poly) someone who has a very full job (time consuming job, for instance, or a very full social life).
The point is that whether they're dating me or my partner, I don't want them to feel neglected, I don't want either of us to feel like we /have/ to spend time with them. It shouldn't become some kind of chore because they're "needy" or whatever, it should be something positive to look forward to.

Agreed!

I would feel weird dating a married person in a situation where for orientation reasons the other partner would be entirely off-limits to me, so in my case, if the partner of my partner were mono/straight girl/gay guy. Too much potential for heartache.

An afterthought;
In the fairy-tale future where my primary finds her Prince Charming and they set up shop together, I might seriously consider forming a live-in triad with an existing couple. In that case, I would be EXTREMELY wary of moving in with a couple who are legally married to each other, simply because of the legal and financial protections and benefits a marriage offers. Even more so if children were involved/planned for. It would be hard for me to feel equally committed to in that kind of situation, all though I do realize most couples realize they are poly only after getting married, and didn't get married in the first place thinking 'life-insurance, pension benefits, inheritance claims, life-insurance, pension benefits...'.
 
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Yes, thank you!!

I think it was the fact that she was so new to the concept of actually being in a poly relationship (which, as we all know, is far different than just "dating around") and was already making comments to my husband about not wanting to share him and about having a hard time dealing with when he's at home (as opposed to on the road for work, which he is monday-friday) because he talked to her far less... (and there were a few things, that i won't get into, that really started their relationship on the wrong foot with me)... so the more I read the responses, I realize that I think it was more a case of her being single and not quite fully on-board with the poly lifestyle as opposed to her simply being "single" if that makes sense....

I appreciate the honesty and all the responses so far. We don't relaly have a lot of friends who are poly, so this site is going to be invaluable :)
 
I have thought about this a lot on a theoretical level, but this topic made me think more about why it is that I have (had) certain preferences. It really all feels quite different now that I am in a poly situation, so that I actually see how it can work for me, not only how it can work in general.

I used to think that it would be more balanced to have my new partner be married as well. This happens to be the situation with my girlfriend, which I find nice. However, it seems that some of the reasons why I used to think that have disappeared now that I'm in the situation. I can see that there would still be many ways this could work even if she was single. :)

Now that I think about it, some of the reasons I find it relieving for my partner to have another partner have a lot to do with me. I am a people pleaser and it causes me anxiety if someone needs me a lot (whether it is a friend or a partner). This has sometimes caused problems in my relationship with my husband even when there has been nobody else involved. I think it actually has a lot more to do with me being anxious about having to let people down and to having to (and sometimes not being able to) say no than it has with the person needing too much from me. For example, what my husband has wanted from me has not been unreasonable, but since I haven't communicated that it has been too much for me at the time it has caused big difficulties. It is definitely interesting that once again the problem comes down to communication!

But I do think that I might overcome this if I got to the root of the problem, as it then wouldn't cause me as much stress when I have to express that I can't always be there for everybody when they might wish. I think this is something I should be analysing even in a mono relationship, but thanks to poly and this forum I begun to think about it more. :)

This does really seem to relate a lot to the idea of polyamory; that one person does not need to fill one's every need for the rest of their life. I find that idea really relieving. And it might help me to consider my own needs easier than before since I am ultimately not responsible for satisfying all the needs my partner has.
 
Since becoming poly, I haven't formed a relationship with anyone who isn't already part of a couple. For me it's a matter of time constraints, not a matter of how much love I have to give. I spent many (9) years as an undergrad working full-time and going to school part-time or working part-time and going to school full-time. Wolf and our son, Yoda, got the short end of the stick attention-wise.

So while I love Wendigo, Pretty Lady, and Wolf equally, I just can't split my time equally between them and since Wendigo and PL also have a son, they understand because they're in the same place.

Wolf has attempted one relationship with a single woman; before our relationship evolved from open to poly; and it didn't end well. I was working 60 hrs a week and going to school 9 hours a week. Wolf was in NRE and tried to save her from a bad situation by moving her into our house, where she tried to take over being mother to our son (including planning to take him to a free carnival while I was at work and when I got called off work; telling me I couldn't go with them), convinced Wolf to stop taking his bi-polar meds, attempted to convince him that he wasn't actually bi-polar and that all his problems stemmed from being married to me..... it was the only time I've ever vetoed a relationship, but w/o his meds and in an extremely manic state he isn't capable of making rational decisions and our son's well being was at risk.

I have no preference with who he dates outside our quad, but I did ask for a boundary that he discuss all potential relationships w/ Wendigo and PL too; as any other relationships we form effect them too.
 
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In all honesty - I thought my "ideal" would be for myself or my husband to date someone who was already married, or who already had a 'primary'.

The reality is - that unless the person you're dating is respectful of YOUR life - and you are respectful of THEIRS - there's going to be conflicts.

For instance... if I am with someone who has a sick kid - I fully expect that the sick kid has 100% of their attention until said kid is better. And if I am taking care of my sick kid - I fully expect that my 'other' partner understands that my kid comes first.

When the secondary or other partner doesn't respect that and insists on the same amount of time and attention regardless of what curveballs life has thrown at you - there's going to be a problem.

Now - I would still be more likely to date someone who has a life... but I would be sure to observe their life to see if our lives mesh before letting it get too far.
 
I'd say it TOTALLY depends on the personality of the person in question.

My boyfriend is mono to me.
But, he NEVER demands my time, ALWAYS respects the importance of my commitment to my husband, my kids, my siblings, parents etc.
EVEN THOUGH
that often means he gets so little time with me as to be negligable.

In fact, it's so rare that we ever go on a "date" that is just the two of us together that I can count them and remember each one in 10 years.

So-it REALLY depends on the person.

Sometimes I wish Maca's gf didn't have such a busy family life-because it makes it so hard to spend any time with her-even WITH the family around. ;)
 
I really really hope to establish a sexual primary relationship. Not because I feel that my current partners are not catering to my needs :rolleyes: but because I feel I can an even better partner, friend and family member with a primary of my own.

This one girl I hope to do it with is single, and somewhat hesitant of getting into a LDR with a few people because of neediness and insecurity issues that plague such relationships. So I think if we could establish a relationship (primary or just any relationship), she would have the courage and emotional security to pursue other connections from a 'safe base' of having already one person who is available for her, lives in the same town and has time for her etc.

Hmm, what was my point exactly? Oh yes; primaries make better secondaries!
 
My husbad and I have been having a debate and I wanted to put it out there....

When you're looking for other people to "date" or "form relationships with," do you feel that there's a difference between being with other people who have their own "primary" or are "stray singles" okay?

I suspect you'll find that there's more of a comfort level - and maybe even success record of secondaries that have their own primary relationship.

There's a couple obvious reasons for this that I think others have mentioned - or at least danced around.

1> There's less risk of the new secondary becoming too needy or demanding because they have their own lives to manage. Not that it can't happen but odds are more against it.

2> In situations where there are insecurities in the primary relationship, the idea that the secondary has their own primary seems to move the threat bar down a couple notches. If the secondary is single that ol competitive urge seems to surface more. Which is almost funny because in reality it's not any more likely to change the dynamic but our brain doesn't seem to get that :)

GS
 
The title of this thread is focused on secondary relationships for a partnered couple. Since turnabout is fair play, I thought I'd share a comment from another forum which is from the singles' perspective. Obviously, the choice to date someone who is married doesn't have to apply only to a secondary relationship, but to any. This was part of a reply to a thread about the rules/guidelines that single polyfolk establish for themselves. I thought it an interesting comment:

I've found that one of the reasons I don't tend to do well dating partnered folk is that generally speaking, they give an *incredible* amount of lip service to their own autonomy, etc... but in the end, one of two things happens:

1. It turns out they're lying to their other partner(s) about some aspect of their relationship with me.

2. Their other partner(s) turn out to have a great deal more influence over them than they'd initially led me to believe.

Has anyone experienced either one of these issues mentioned above? Are there other solos/singles who are skittish about dating someone who is married? What are your reasons?

Upthread, I wrote that I feel there is too much potential drama in dating a married guy. I wrote that over a year ago, and I think I am more comfy with the idea now, but still cautious - basically because I'm wary of Reason #2 in what I quoted. What are your thoughts?
 
The reality is - that unless the person you're dating is respectful of YOUR life - and you are respectful of THEIRS - there's going to be conflicts.

I think there's a lot of truth to this.

I've been seeing BF for 9 months and he said many times, in maybe the first 4-5 months, that the problems are rarely between someone from his lifestyle and a vanilla person, but between a single and a married person--for exactly the reason that the single person is often going to be left alone, feeling their needs for time and companionship are unmet.

So far, it's worked for us in part because I have a very busy life apart from him; in part because I understand I'm not going to get a full relationship from him and therefore I make God, myself, and my children MY primaries (the downside being, I have so far not allowed myself to feel as deeply, emotionally, as he does); and in part because to me, marriage IS sacrosanct. I would not dream of doing anything to dismiss or downplay his wife or marriage. To me, a marriage ALWAYS comes first, even if it's not me benefitting from that view.

That being said, there may be a time when our relationship doesn't work out because I understand a married man may one day not be able to meet all my needs. If/when that day comes, I'll walk away before I'll do anything that would harm their marriage. I wouldn't feel good about myself, anyway, if I managed to get more at someone else's expense.

Except for a few rare exceptions, I would think that would typically be the case, and why a relationship between married and single people has a shelf life.
 
It's been so long since I replied, my dynamic hasn't changed much. But, maybe my thoughts have?

I don't care one way or the other if they are single or married-per se.
I'm going to decide on an individual basis based upon how well our lives mesh.

But, I can say, that after surviving several different nightmare attempts at dating other women on my husbands part, I'm guarded in terms of people who are new to poly. The drama is exhausting.

IF I WERE SINGLE-I think I'd choose not to engage myself with married couples.

I definitely wouldn't engage myself with people who have children-if I didn't have children.

Again, these people may be great, but the drama.. exhausts me.

The more people who are responsible to other people involved, the more complicated the planning. And
the more likely that SOMEONE in the group is going to react negatively to someone else.
 
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