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  #31  
Old 02-27-2011, 10:22 PM
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What is an art therapist? Sounds fun sorry about the money. Are you having fun and or enjoying your job now?

So PN doesn't believe you will do it "the Harley thing" or thinks is stupid or frivolous or unappealing for him.

Does or has PN treated your time with him as something he should do out of fairness or does he assume with all the other things and partners he will not be missed by you? I can see slighting your son as huge problem....I know in my situation it is.
Art therapy is healing through art and its unconscious symbology through a mixture of art making and psychotherapy. I am an artist and therapist essentially and the two are mixed in order to help people with their problems.

PN is not a man who lives on the edge. The edge for him is reading the local news paper when my dad brings it over. Riding a bike is just not something he gets... he drives 10 kms UNDER the speed limit whenever he can. Drives me crazy. Mono and I are totally opposite. Hurray for poly... I get to do these things with Mono and do other things with PN or can leave him to mull over his books... I come all smiley faced from what I am doing and he is all smiley faced because he got to do what he wanted... it all works

Yes PN has treated our time together as something he should do out of fairness. I do that too sometimes when I am in NRE, I need transition time between one and the other and after that make a decision with myself that I need to shove the NRE feelings aside, and do. They are my personal little piece of heaven to be brought out when I am with the person. PN struggles with that and is resentful and vacant sometimes. It takes practice. I have had LOTS of practice... years in fact. PN hasn't. That is just how it has gone for him. He gets what he is doing, he just needs practice and I am patient when it comes up and talk him through it a lot of the time. I have tried telling him to go do his own thing during family time, but it makes no difference, he just hangs around in lala land. He might as well do that with us around and we just dance around him... heh. It's cute, but annoying, as I said. I didn't think that at the time though!
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  #32  
Old 02-28-2011, 04:22 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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RedPepper Thanks so much fro you reply.

It is very interesting....your thoughts and feelings line up with a lot of us mono's. The label thing may not work....poly ...mono. Maybe it should be people having a poly experience and people having a mono experience. Because you identify as poly and have several relationships doesn't change the automatic human responses to these types of situations. Its only because you love and enjoy this dynamic that you are willing to use every behavior modification tool to help you work through the possible pain and unpleasant drama.
I was surprised that you would be bothered by the mental images of intimate contact. I'm surprised because of the number of yrs in the trench's and because of the number of on going relationships.

You said you were not sure why I wanted to know? I'm confused as to what your unsure of specifically. I guess I was looking for mind set...emotional responses to similar situations....do poly partners ever project their situation or relationships onto their mono partners. Meaning has my wife ever thought what things would look like if I started dating multiple women.... very real possibility.

In my wife's case I think no ... but if forced she would see it as exactly as what she has constructed ....which may or may not be what I would choose for myself.

In my situation I've pointed out exactly where my problems are obligatory dates/time, basic time management, etc. all pretty common stuff. I've been vocal about such concerns and there effects but I don't think I've gotten the message across. So I was thinking perhaps a different tack.

Your career sounds fascinating. Can you do forensic art therapy on the old masters? Or is it something where you need to interview the person? who are candidates for such therapy? Not all surprising that the word therapist is used concerning you or your work.

Thanks again D
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  #33  
Old 02-28-2011, 10:05 PM
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Hi dinged. I'm sensing you and your wife don't communicate much. Why not ask her, hypothetically, how she would feel? Asking such questions is a good way of evoking empathy.

Art therapists don't analyse, so ya, need to work WITH ones clients
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Last edited by redpepper; 02-28-2011 at 10:30 PM.
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  #34  
Old 03-01-2011, 03:10 PM
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Thanks RP

You are absolutely right the communication has stalled for the most part. I think she didn't have good answers to my questions or comments which in turn frustrated her a great deal which most always deteriorated into tears....on her part. I was usually trying to figure out what exactly she said or meant. Sometimes I wish we had a stenographer to read back something where I got lost.

The reasons for my questions is to gain perspective in order to have a conversation with my wife. Example: If I was to find that most poly folks in relationships with mono's really don't enjoy being the center of that persons focus, attention etc. and actually find it burdensome. That would definitely impact my conversation and questions to her. There would be no empathy at all.

Most of the things I learn here have or will be used in some way or another in conversations with my wife. I really appreciate the insight I've gained.

After suggesting that I may want to opt out of the "primary role" it sort of created a communications vacuum. I don't need the constant talks for reassurance sake. I also think she is reluctant to start conversations along those lines because she is unsure of the out come....doesn't want to make it worst so to speak.

I have asked hypothetical questions to her several times and she usually wants to answer quickly and briefly and change the subject as fast as possible. Its never discussion of much depth. I'm not sure if that's avoidance or a complete lack of empathy.

Thanks for the input D

P.S. I assume you have an extensive knowledge of art history is there one of those "masters" who would be of interest to interview from the perspective of an art therapist..... time machine is ready.
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  #35  
Old 03-02-2011, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
I wasn't asking what you would think if mono fell in love...I was interested in if you ever plugged in multiple partners from the other prospective....just as mental game.
I do.
I thought long and hard before I handed my initial letter to Maca, because I knew-if he "accepted", it meant me accepting that he may decide to have other women
AND
that he may have a different way of doing things than I do (which he does).
I had to accept that if he was willing to accept me having a fidelitious relationship that included GG (I don't consider myself open to other lovers besides these two); I had to accept that he may want something that wasn't "poly-fi".

Dinged-

I think that your wife hasn't a foggy clue what "primary" means. By ANY definition I've read. Your descriptions of her behavior do not support the idea of honest, much less the respect of treating you as a primary. Even accepting that there could be more than ONE primary, she's not respecting you as a primary at all.
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  #36  
Old 03-03-2011, 03:28 PM
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LR
thanks for the reply...

How close to reality did your hypothetical come.... or rather how horribly off you were?? Any factors you didn't take into account? You said Maca could do things different....different in approach or style or substantially different like having 3-4 partners all at once...or something similar to that.

My wife's clueless on many topic right now....agreed. I think she was saying those things to help me feel better and that's when I got the notion of removing myself from that role. I think the word love gets thrown around a lot and it's like the word snow. The Eskimo's have words in the double digit to describe white frozen precipitation. It might be helpful if love had a few more.

The assumption is that "primary" is something to strive for or is more rewarding or something.

What if in a V you have equal secondary's?

Thanks LR
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  #37  
Old 03-03-2011, 11:21 PM
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Dinged, it seems you (or your wife perhaps) are very focused on the labels or titles that each person in a poly relationship has, but in reality that's not important. I would venture to guess that this focus is a convenient distraction that enables you to avoid examining deeper issues in your relationship. What's really important is the communication and quality of relating. Are you able to ask for your needs to be met? Does your partner, no matter what "status," strive to treat you respectfully and with love, caring, and kindness? Do each of you take care of yourselves while also looking out for the other? Are you really trying to be partners in support of each other or just angling for the best defensive maneuver against each other?

I've been reading your threads and from what I recall, there is a lot of unresolved anger, hurt, and confusion between the two of you. I would gently suggest you start healing all of those painful feelings in some way (therapy?) before assigning roles and trying to put your relationship into some regimented category that you think should be the right way to do polyamory. I wish you well. Have you thought about asking your wife to also come here, read your posts, and contribute her side of the story?




Edit: Okay, I saw another recent post of yours on one of your other threads and it looks like you're trying to address important, emotional issues by planning a discussion with your wife. Having so many threads on a similar vein can get a little confusing and hard to keep up with. Maybe ask to have some of them merged? Just a suggestion. Anyway, yeah, I think the labels and status stuff is just not necessary to focus on. I hope your talk with your wife this weekend goes well, but if she craps out on talking with you again, that is another red flag.
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Last edited by nycindie; 03-03-2011 at 11:37 PM.
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  #38  
Old 03-04-2011, 12:04 AM
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I'm getting confused too.... merging to come perhaps.
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Last edited by redpepper; 03-04-2011 at 12:07 AM.
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  #39  
Old 03-07-2011, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
How close to reality did your hypothetical come.... or rather how horribly off you were?? Any factors you didn't take into account? You said Maca could do things different....different in approach or style or substantially different like having 3-4 partners all at once...or something similar to that.
He's a "chaser" kind of guy, where as I'm not. I've had some sort of relationship with GG for 18 years and I'm not interested in looking for anyone new. Maca... he tends to be more interested in the sexual nature of a relationship, where as I'm more interestd in the bonding, spirituality and permanence of a relationship. That creates the scenario where he would be ok with having a fuck buddy-but I am certainly not. He has a "friend with benefits" and has opened himself to the possibility with other women in different ways.. Just not my thing.
Really, my only two "rules" that "restrict" his actions/behavior in this are the following:
1. protection with all other partners every time AND they and he have to be checked for STD's regularly (I will be as well) or he won't be having sex with me.
2. don't bring your "friends" to meet the kids until they are established as long term parts of your life.

It's ok for him to have temporary lovers, it's not ok to drag them through the kids lives. Now, his FWB has met two of the kids (oldest and youngest) and is certainly free to meet the other two (opportunity hasn't arisen yet). Because they've established that she wants to remain friends forever, regardless of the sexual dynamic.

Quote:
My wife's clueless on many topic right now....agreed. I think she was saying those things to help me feel better and that's when I got the notion of removing myself from that role.
It's silly for people to use words without truly considering their meaning. I KNOW, it happens all of the time, but it's still silly.
My love for Maca and my love for GG is equally deep and equally strong. There's a WHOLE THREAD on here somewhere that i'm flipping out over GG not wanting to rise to being an equal "primary" with Maca. But, the bottom line is, that THEY are comfortable with GG being secondary to GG and my love needn't change to meet that "standard" nor does that standard need to rise to meet my "love".
Your wife needs to really stop and consider what the hell she wants and what she's going to do to manage it. Because if our actions and our words don't agree, it's our actions we'll be judged on.


Quote:
I think the word love gets thrown around a lot and it's like the word snow. The Eskimo's have words in the double digit to describe white frozen precipitation. It might be helpful if love had a few more.
NO SHIT!
I live in Alaska. All I can say is NO SHIT!


Quote:
The assumption is that "primary" is something to strive for or is more rewarding or something.
That is the assumption, but I think it's a faulty one. I learned that from Mono and GG.

Quote:
What if in a V you have equal secondary's?
hehe, great question. I don't know-but I think it wouldnt be a bad thing!
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  #40  
Old 03-07-2011, 04:33 AM
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I think also-that there are always factors that haven't been taken into account. Certainly there was a big one for me which came up this January.

Maca's potential wanted to use our bedroom to be with him one night a week. In general theory-I couldn't care less about people using my bedroom. In fact his FWB has been with him in our bedroom and bed when I was out of state (not an issue) and many of our friends have used our room when we weren't here.

BUT-something I hadn't considered was, what if the person he's wanting to sleep with IS NOT a friend of mine? Am I still ok with them using my room?

In theory, sure, but in reality, my most precious belongings are in my room and before allowing a virtual stranger to use my room, I want those belongings removed, to ensure their safety. It's not a "sharing" issue, it's an issue of not knowing the person in order to know if I can trust them to respect my belongings.

I'm not talking about sexual things-I'm talking MY MAKE UP, MY CLOTHING, MY BOOKS, MY JEWELRY. Just things that matter to me, that are MINE.

This was a hell of a big issue which hadn't even occurred to me, because it hadn't occurred to me that someone who wasn't a friend would WANT to use my space. At first I felt like I HAD to say it was ok, because I already said it was ok with the FWB. But, ultimately I decided it wasn't ok and I said no (not before Maca had already said no) because this space is MY sanctuary first and foremost and if someone else is going to be present in it, they need to respect it as my santuary.
(this does go both ways, this is MACA's sanctuary first and foremost as well and anyone whose going to be present in it needs to respect it as such as well)
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