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  #11  
Old 02-24-2011, 01:59 AM
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I'm sorry, I have to be the dissenter. (I went back and tried to edit so that my words weren't too unkind, I hope that I don't come off as too harsh.) People know what lying is, and he knew that he was going to hurt you. Even if there was no happy choice available, he knew that he was taking an action that he shouldn't and he has to accept the consequences of his actions. He lied, he cheated, he knew he was destroying trust. He has to face the fact that the consequences are not going to be fun for him. And I don't accept that he couldn't love this woman and not have sex with her. Really? Just because you desire someone doesn't mean you have to have sex with them. If that's the definition of polyamory, guess what, I don't qualify.

Yes, it's torturous. But he said that he could just be friends. You took him at his word. If he wasn't brave enough to come to you when he realized that he couldn't handle that, that's on him. Otherwise, we all have to spend the rest of our lives trying to figure out what our partners "really" mean rather than believing they're telling the truth. That's crazy-making.

Ladyintricate, I really feel for you. But you stand at a crossroads, and you have to decide. Your husband is probably polyamorous--if you take him at his word, then he is. Can you live with that? Because you can no longer pretend that keeping him in a monogamous marriage is kind or realistic. From this point on, you *must* accept that he is going to have loving and/or sexual relationships with other women. The question is, will you be wife, or friend? (I'm assuming that, for the sake of your children, the two of you would attempt to be friends if you can't be spouses.)

If you decide to stay in the marriage and give polyamory a try, then you're going to have to try to rebuild the trust. It will be hard, but I know I've seen other people on this board do it. If you go back to therapy, this time try for a polyamory-friendly therapist. They are *so* worth it, and my experience has been that they won't be prejudiced against you if you're not polyamorous, in case that worries you. I think you should also think about the fact that he loves this woman, and perhaps--and I'm trying to be as kind as possible, but think about what I'm saying here--perhaps cutting him off *forever* from someone he loves is not a loving act. You're angry, and you have every right to be. You have had your trust broken, by both of them, and that showed a lack of respect from both of them. You deserve some space to figure things out. But if you decide to try to rebuild trust with him, you should try to rebuild trust with her, too. She made the same mistake your husband made, and is worthy of the same amount of forgiveness. Please don't stay in the relationship if you aren't going to eventually be able to forgive; it's not kind to you, your husband, or your children.

You owe it to yourself to research polyamory thoroughly. You owe it to yourself to do some soul-searching and honest self-examination. Let yourself really feel the explanations that LR gave you for why he might have done what he did; understanding his motivations might help you find your way. You owe it to yourself, your kids, and your husband to be completely aware of what you want, what you need, and where you go from here, and communicate it with yourself and your husband.
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:11 AM
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I want to clarify:
In the time before he told me he was poly (this was also before he realized it fully himself) and we were completely monogamous up to that point, to when he told me he was poly- to now, I have always encouraged communication with my husband and honesty. I have always said that we can do anything if we tackle it together.

I have and would NEVER say that he was wrong for loving someone or in needing to be himself. I love HIM. He says himself that he had a lot of shame from his childhood that he imposed on himself for years that prevented him from even facing who he was to himself. What I said to him was that his choice in being dishonest with me was a poor decision and that this hurt me. It especially hurt because my husband, the woman (A.), and myself , had agreed that they would NOT cross that line into sex or anything other than platonic love. This seems pretty unrealistic now to me, but my husband said that this decision was ok with him and that he loved her and me, but that he did not have to have a sexual or physical relationship with A. in order for him to be happy.

The reason I cannot be ok with him and A. having a relationship now is that he and she broke that promise to me (they had sex). They broke that promise to me multiple times and I then found out about it. I was not told about it by my husband, as I would have expected to be (And had asked him to) or by A. Our decision come to by the 3 of us was that this was going to be platonic and that if something with that changed, or if my husband and A were not able to do that, or if anyone’s needs changed then we would talk. They did not talk to me until after I confronted my husband.

Anyway, I did read what you have all said and I appreciate the feedback. I think now that I was naïve and my husband was too in the way we handled things 2 years ago. Clearly the “platonic” situation did not work. This is all new to both of us. I have been reading many posts on here and they have filled me with a lot of hope for us. I have been reading quite a few of MonoVCPHG and Redpepper’s posts, for instance, and also Sage’s and her blog. Thank you for being here. I will continue to read and learn.

My husband J. and I had a long talk today and we are both feeling much better. We now have a crystal clear 100% honesty policy between us. I also told him that I 100% love him as he is and for who he is. He told me that he knows that because that is what I have always told him. I feel so much better tonight because we have decided to do what we should have done when he realized he was poly: work on our own individual stuff (we are both going to go to a counselor separately) and then once we both feel more secure in ourselves, we are going to explore what role a third person will have in our life together. I want him to be happy and I also feel that I have the capacity to grow. Sage’s blog is an inspiration to me.

J. and I don’t know what is going to happen in the future except that we both love each other and we are going to be honest and open and truly take that journey together.
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:13 AM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemondrop View Post
People know what lying is, and he knew that he was going to hurt you. Even if there was no happy choice available, he knew that he was taking an action that he shouldn't and he has to accept the consequences of his actions. He lied, he cheated, he knew he was destroying trust. He has to face the fact that the consequences are not going to be fun for him. And I don't accept that he couldn't love this woman and not have sex with her.
I agree with you lemon, but he's not on here asking for advice about what to do. She can't do ANYTHING about him, who he is or what he does, except attempt to understand it as best as possible in order to make a choice as to where she wants to go with her life.

Believe me you-if HE were the one posting, I'd be ALL OVER the fact that he needs to stop lying to HIMSELF so that he can stop lying to HER and move on to having a happy life.
Just like I had to.
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  #14  
Old 02-24-2011, 02:25 AM
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I'm so glad to hear that you are both going to seek therapy for your individual issues and work together on a resolution. It's so hard to find it in our hearts to let go of the need to "be right" sometimes, but we have to if we want to be happy. SOMETIMES, we're both wrong!

As for the promise breaking, I DO understand exactly what you are saying. It hurts, a LOT when people break their promises. But, we've all broken promises before and it's not impossible to look into ourselves and see that when we've done it, it usually wasn't out of a desire to hurt the other person, but out of a lack within ourselves. If we aren't able to gain forgiveness for that lack after we've fixed it... where does that leave us? All of us?

I'm NOT telling you that he SHOULD be with that woman or any woman for that matter, just giving you food for thought.

I had an affair that lasted 7 years. I do love my husband, I did know it was wrong to lie. I couldn't see a way to be true to myself without lying, until I finally did see it. It took me 7 years to find it.

Not only did I have an affair, but I also got pregnant and had an abortion. Aborted what would have been my lovers first child, his parents first grandchild....

I hurt so many people, not least of all, myself.

But, when I realized what path it was that I needed to take, when I figured out how to be real, be true to myself AND be true to both Maca and GG.... I started busting my ass to get myself on the right path. One of the key motivators, was the ongoing support and love from BOTH of them.

It HAS NOT been easy for Maca to learn to forgive me for my transgressions.
It HAS NOT been easy for Maca to learn to forgive GG for his.
It HAS NOT been easy for Maca to learn to accept and love GG for his place in our family.

BUT-even Maca would tell you, he can never punish GG or I as badly as we punish ourselves every day for lying to him, hurting him, hurting our families, giving up our child... Holding onto that anger, resentment and grudge, was hurting him. By forgiving us, he actually causes us more pain-because we can't help but feel even shittier for our actions, even amidst our appreciation for his forgiveness, because his choice to forgive us is so much more "right" than our choices were.

Think on it-you may find that it's better for YOU to forgive and set aside the anger, animosity and grudge against them. Regardless of how it may "appear" to benefit them, it may be even MORE beneficial to you.



Good luck!
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  #15  
Old 02-24-2011, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
As for the promise breaking, I DO understand exactly what you are saying. It hurts, a LOT when people break their promises. But, we've all broken promises before and it's not impossible to look into ourselves and see that when we've done it, it usually wasn't out of a desire to hurt the other person, but out of a lack within ourselves. If we aren't able to gain forgiveness for that lack after we've fixed it... where does that leave us? All of us?

I'm NOT telling you that he SHOULD be with that woman or any woman for that matter, just giving you food for thought.

......But, when I realized what path it was that I needed to take, when I figured out how to be real, be true to myself AND be true to both Maca and GG.... I started busting my ass to get myself on the right path. One of the key motivators, was the ongoing support and love from BOTH of them.
I am taking in a lot here and trying to be understanding to my husband and at the same time figure out what I need. We have decided together that we both very much want our marriage to work out. We love each other very much and we have been through a LOT together before this and hopefully will work through this together and be together through much more in the future. Either way we both know that whatever happens we will always love each other and be there for each other (even if it ends up that we are friends only).

That is wonderful that you are in a place now where you have the love that you need and want and they are getting what they need. We all definetely deserve love and forgiveness. Thank you for sharing your story with me.

I am trying not to completely rule out anything anymore. I have told J. that maybe someday we can include A. in our life again, but at this point in time I can not forsee that. I wish her the absolute best. She is a sweet person and I know that she wasn't happy about the cheating and lying to me. However, she still DID what she did (her actions are what bother me) and I had thought that she would have told me the truth - just as I thought he would have.

ANYWAYS...who knows what may happen in the future. We are taking this a day at a time. Also, there is a boyfriend (I know she would consider him a primary) on her side that is a friend of all of ours and he was cheated on as well. She and her BF are trying to figure out what they need and if they can continue also. This is a complicated situation for certain.

Also, on a lighter note: I noticed your "Love as thou wilt" quote. I love the Kushiel Series of books. I have always thought that people should live and love as they wish as long as they are open, honest and loving to each other. I also thought my husband and I were both mono. Heh. But I still believe the "Love as thou wilt" philosphy. I, of course, had a major crush on Jocelyn. Beautiful books!

Last edited by ladyintricate; 02-24-2011 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Lemondrop View Post
I don't accept that he couldn't love this woman and not have sex with her. Really? Just because you desire someone doesn't mean you have to have sex with them.
Just so you know... this is WAY FUCKING HARDER than you think... When you love someone a lot, you want to give to them, experience every part of them. Take them in,,, breath them in... it sometimes consumes you. To have constraints on that can sometimes twist in your head. It's VERY easy to rationalize and even decide that your other love is full of shit when you are in a moment that seemingly has no return.

I get what you are saying here. Really I do. The only thing that has worked for me is to be very clear and rational that the person I love, Leo, is not a good match for me in anyway beyond the "moment." I also asked for help. I asked him, and all my loves to make sure a "moment" doesn't happen again unless there is agreement from everyone, most of all myself. There is usually much more at play than the act of two people together in a moment.

If he really thought he was to be her friend, in my opinion, he should of asked for help to make sure it stayed like that.

to the OP.... good luck. Please let us know how you progress. We are all rooting for you... as they say in Canada "keep your stick on the ice" (that is so fucking lame! What kind of saying is that... GAUD!)
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:22 AM
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Are you sure that your husband and his girlfriend are going to be able to honour the agreement that they have with you now? They are in love and they have already shown through their actions that they have a really hard time staying within boundaries that have been set with the 3 of you together. Do you think it's possible to ask instead that they move slowly and to keep talking to you along the way. I'm not sure that telling them that they can't have contact is going to work. If they do resume contact without your knowledge how is that going to make you feel?

I don't know if he (or she) would feel comfortable coming to you to let you know that they wished to resume contact (on any level) and it seems to me that you're setting yourself up for more pain down the road by setting a more rigid boundary with him. We can't control who we love but we can control how we act on and act towards those we love.
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:30 AM
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What Derby said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Just so you know... this is WAY FUCKING HARDER than you think... When you love someone a lot, you want to give to them, experience every part of them. Take them in,,, breath them in... it sometimes consumes you. To have constraints on that can sometimes twist in your head. It's VERY easy to rationalize and even decide that your other love is full of shit when you are in a moment that seemingly has no return.
RP I'm glad you said this.

@Ladyintricate, I'm willing to bet that they didn't tell you, because they truly believed that even though they screwed up once that they wouldn't do it again (even if they eventually did) and telling you WOULD only bring you hurt and neither really wanted to hurt you. They were also probably very ashamed of their actions. My husband and I even as of a few hours ago, still stuggle with similar issues, where he doesn't tell me stuff to "save" my feelings. It's not right, I hate it, but it happens and I get it.

Quote:
as they say in Canada "keep your stick on the ice" (that is so fucking lame! What kind of saying is that... GAUD!)
HeHe, I'm an So Cal girl and I get this quote. Not lame, if your stick is on the ice, your still in the game and the puck is in play, you have not given up. Now someone want to tell me how we here is Los Angeles have 2 Hockey teams, 2 Basketball teams, and 2 Baseball teams but NO Football team, there is just something wrong with that.

Last edited by SNeacail; 02-24-2011 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 02-24-2011, 10:47 AM
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A big hug to ladyintricate!
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Old 02-24-2011, 03:16 PM
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...................

Now I am trying to figure out where do we go from here? I truly love him and I want him to be happy. I want ME to be happy too. No more lies, no more deceit, but how do we make this work?
Hello Lady,

It's unfortunate that things unfolded the way they did but if it's any help, understand that this seems the rule rather than the exception.

LovingRadiance has posted some very sage comments that ties in much of the reality of this. I would read this over, and over and over until I fully understood it.

I would only add possibly one thing that might add clarity.

It's critical to truly understand that loving more than one person is our NATURAL state ! We do it all the time in various other ways. It's only when it comes to what some call "romantic" love, sex etc that people have tried to change the rules.
But we all know what happens when people try to make rules that run against our basic human nature. The rules get broken unless we can identify some real danger more serious than our discomfort.

So what happens here is that in general, a church dominated culture has suppressed any real education and dialog regarding what love is and how we may deal with all it's various facets. So when these totally natural events eventually pop up - and they do for a majority of people - we have little knowledge how to proceed in any wise and caring manner. So we stumble, make mistakes, hurt ourselves and others and then cry foul.
What we needed to avoid this was not more rules that go against our basic natures, but more knowledge & understanding of this nature and constructive methods for dealing with it ! That seems to be what the growing public polyamourous culture is trying to bring to light.

It's entirely possible to live in complete harmony with ourselves and loved ones, but like so many other things, we need some 'lessons'. A little help. A little support along the way.

If you can embrace this, this place along with many others, books and other resources can ease this transition into a more natural way of living & relating.

All I can suggest is wipe the past clean. Don't hang onto mistakes born of ignorance. You both TRIED to navigate this with what little knowledge & instinct you had. It simply wasn't enough. Nobody is truly at 'fault' except the culture that has tried to suppress basic human nature. Take a deep breath, get learning and TALKING ! Incessantly ! Forgive each other if that helps.
Start again. This time wiser and more curious.

We're all here to help any way we can.

GS
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