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  #11  
Old 02-01-2011, 04:22 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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I became an unprimary when my wife and I were poly. PN became primary after a time... really now, I wouldn't of defined it as such... she is just as important as she ever was. Our marriage ended, but my love for her didn't change... her involvement in my life changed, but when I think of her now... thousands of miles away, having not talked to her since Christmas, I feel the same as I did 15 years ago... perhaps even more love. The kind that of love that grows with time and experiences together.

I don't have primaries in the sense of hierarchy. Mono is not financially bonded to me or bonded to me in terms of a child, but he is just as important as PN... in time and in experience, the loves in my life become more and more primary... the time I spend with them is not indicative of status either after a time... there is old love and new love and differences in personality... that's it.
RP thanks... I guess in theory hierarchy doesn't have to exist but again, I put almost 20yrs in and to think some fling of 6-7 months is equal is hard to get my head around. When you speak of your ex-wife and your love I think that's how a lot people feel about ex-spouses or ex-partners however it would be hard not to give someone in a current relationship somewhat different status. You stated how you see your relationships and their status for lack of a better word, or their equalness. How would they describe the same situation?? Is this area in which each person may have his or her own take on it?? You mentioned ex-wife, pn, mono how do you describe the others? How did you become un-primary? Did you ask for such a change or was is the nature of a relationship in decline or one of you finding someone new? Thanks D
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  #12  
Old 02-01-2011, 08:13 PM
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RP thanks... I guess in theory hierarchy doesn't have to exist but again, I put almost 20yrs in and to think some fling of 6-7 months is equal is hard to get my head around. When you speak of your ex-wife and your love I think that's how a lot people feel about ex-spouses or ex-partners however it would be hard not to give someone in a current relationship somewhat different status. You stated how you see your relationships and their status for lack of a better word, or their equalness. How would they describe the same situation?? Is this area in which each person may have his or her own take on it?? You mentioned ex-wife, pn, mono how do you describe the others? How did you become un-primary? Did you ask for such a change or was is the nature of a relationship in decline or one of you finding someone new? Thanks D
sure dingedheart. I didn't ask for anything and we sure didn't work on anything in particular, it just happened. One day I had a change of heart. I had invested a lot of time and energy into the people I love and could not hold on to their title anymore. Remember I have been poly for 15 years. A lot of time has passed and I have experienced a lot with my loves. Mono came into my life two years ago... it took time and adjustment, we just let that happen in its own time. He doesn't agree that he is not anything but a secondary, but whatever, he doesn't agree with a lot that I say and do. Derby is the recent addition to my life and we said right from the beginning that we would just see where it went. She is not part of my life as much time wise, but she holds a place of huge importance to me now and I am invested in her well being as well as the well being of her family. History and involvement in peoples lives creates investment and connection. That is what I go by. This man that your wife is with... in time perhaps you will feel the same if you decide to make an attempt to create history with him and her that is... your investment of 20yrs is valid and worth respecting, but I would suggest that at some point you start looking towards the future.
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  #13  
Old 02-02-2011, 04:16 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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sure dingedheart. I didn't ask for anything and we sure didn't work on anything in particular, it just happened. One day I had a change of heart. I had invested a lot of time and energy into the people I love and could not hold on to their title anymore. Remember I have been poly for 15 years. A lot of time has passed and I have experienced a lot with my loves. Mono came into my life two years ago... it took time and adjustment, we just let that happen in its own time. He doesn't agree that he is not anything but a secondary, but whatever, he doesn't agree with a lot that I say and do. Derby is the recent addition to my life and we said right from the beginning that we would just see where it went. She is not part of my life as much time wise, but she holds a place of huge importance to me now and I am invested in her well being as well as the well being of her family. History and involvement in peoples lives creates investment and connection. That is what I go by. This man that your wife is with... in time perhaps you will feel the same if you decide to make an attempt to create history with him and her that is... your investment of 20yrs is valid and worth respecting, but I would suggest that at some point you start looking towards the future.
Thanks RP, I am looking towards the future which is why I was trying to redefine how my new role could work. As you said if I move into a more secondary role things could become more distant or something like that, I believe you were suggesting further change. Imo that process has began and now I have a say in were it goes or rather the depth. There could be a nice freedom with this new role. You said Mono see's his role as secondary and it may have more benefits for him than the " primary", if only in his head which I guess is the case by your description. As for creating history 7 months seems like a grain of sand to me, I know my wife's history and patterns.

P.S. Looked up ogle I think you were use the old definition. Ogle : a loving appreciation for the clad or unclad female form, my preference un. The old definition had to do with creepy naked nipple leering. It's all an out growth of the sex positive movement,.... which is nice. < kidding> This is my definition although I am going to look it up....thanks D
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  #14  
Old 02-02-2011, 05:40 PM
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P.S. Looked up ogle I think you were use the old definition. Ogle : a loving appreciation for the clad or unclad female form, my preference un. The old definition had to do with creepy naked nipple leering. It's all an out growth of the sex positive movement,.... which is nice. < kidding> This is my definition although I am going to look it up....thanks D
NO, NO, NO! Please no more debates on "Old Definitions" vs "New Definitions", #1 vs #5, noun vs verb... It's the English language and most words have multiple meanings. Please let it go.
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  #15  
Old 02-14-2011, 05:16 PM
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I wanted to reply to SNeacail from that other thread by Honestheart sooner, sorry lost in the shuffle.

Your question was is she doing things out of keeping things even. YES. Is it my impression. NO. Now can this spiral out of control? YES very easily. Is there an easy way to fix the problem? NO. Everyone starts second and third guessing everything...... words, gestures, tone. etc.

Your other question had do with spur of the moment things? Well I'm not sure how she feels today but lots of things have changed over the years. I've done spontaneous things all my life. While living/working Germany met this great girl at party on a Tuesday evening and asked if she had plans for the weekend.... she said it was her birthday and she was going out with her roommates. A second later I said I think we should go to Switzerland skiing for her birthday my treat. I just thought it was a really fun idea for 3 day weekend. It was great up to the skiing part....she couldn't ski that good.... nightmare. I hope she remembers it as exciting and fun. When dating my wife I did similar things..... call her at 10am saying I felt like going to New Orleans today go home and get your stuff and I'll pick you up such and such time and off to the airport. Rarely did she say she couldn't.

When we first started dating I had gone to race car driving school and was on weekends in the summer driving formula fords with Skip Barber. I had a Bmw m5 back then a great performance car. She loved riding and going fast in that car. Today we have another performance car but she cant stand the way I drive it. Its more or less her primary car unless the weather is bad the she takes something else. But I no longer drive it with her in the car, its to stressful for her and I don't like the arguments that generally result. Now I did ask, because I remember her enjoyment, or at least I thought I did. Answer, I changed, don't like it now.

Interesting event 2+ weeks ago. We had a family ski trip planned at the day before she started saying she didn't think she was going to go. I knew what was going on but really couldn't and didn't want to make a big deal out of it. I more or less just shook my head and walked out. Not exactly sure what she told the kids but offer for them to bring their friends, no problem. We all would stay at our vacation home so no big deal.

Late Sat afternoon I have very nice crash....I have to go to an ER . I feel banged up but they insist on the ER. I give older kids all my cash and instruction and I have a phone and they phones. Daughter calls panicked can't get a hold of mom!!!!! "I've call 10 times and left messages over the past hr , etc.etc. I told her not to panic nothing mom could do from there anyway. Stop calling her and go have fun. A 20 minutes later wife calls...".heard you wiped out are you ok....to which I told her my prelim status. At That point it was unclear if I was going to be held over night...We live about 2hrs away so I thought the smart play would be for her to come up to take care of the kids. That's when I found out she was in Vegas....I think I just hung up on her. So I guess the answer is yes she can be spontaneous with the right person.

I had/have 2 broken ribs, sprained left knee and bruised kidney. Bad day.

The fallout of this like event are going to be felt for a very long time, and I'm not talking about my ribs or knee there already getting better.
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  #16  
Old 02-14-2011, 06:15 PM
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Now I did ask, because I remember her enjoyment, or at least I thought I did. Answer, I changed, don't like it now.
I went through this, don't know if it was age, having kids or something else. I used to love to go off roading with my husband, now I can't stand it. When I was younger, it was thrilling, now such activities really make me anxious and it isn't enjoyable at all. Now the only place I have a "need for speed" is on the ski slopes and even that will change depending on my fitness level and my sense of control.

Based on some of your other posts, I can only suggest you may need help from a professional. There does seem to be other issues here with you wife constantly searching for something new and better.

Now, did the trip to Vegas come up only the day before they ski trip, or did it just take her that long to bring up the fact that she was changing her plans? Don't blame you for being upset with her, it was a rotten thing to do.

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I had/have 2 broken ribs, sprained left knee and bruised kidney.
. Ouch!!!! Hope you heal up fast. This is why I now always wear a helmet.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:29 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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SNeacail
While lying in the exam room I really felt quite alone and decided to make some small changes that might have a large symbolic statement. Listening to the stories of the doctor's and other staff made me feel lucky and reflective of what could have happened. What if I killed myself? What if(s).....for good 20 min. Here where the professional help comes in. I changed my very large life insurance policies which were put in place because of my business and its exposure into my kids names. I have taken out an additional policy on myself with my wife as beneficiary (50 grand) more than enough, average funeral about 8. I think its only fair I be removed from her policy if I already haven't. Also willing To put similar smaller policy in place for funeral expenses. I think you meant professional help in an other sense....right?

The question of the Vegas trip. I don't know. Didn't ask. I found out in the ER after asking/telling her to get rolling up here because of the time and distance it would take. If we waited for all the tests and results and then make a decision we would have to worry about the hill closing and how the kids would get back to our cabin, etc, etc... Oldest kid 13.. The phone conversation was more short than hostile.... I said "well then that's not going to work don't talk to the kid I'll call you back" , then I hung up. Second though I think my first words were "What" ....then the other stuff....

Before the trip when she hinted that she may not go it was to see if anyone would put up resistance, so she offered the kids take friends. My take is if the kid would have put up a fuss she would have gone....but I've been wrong before.

I'm not sure how I feel as to if it was rotten or not. At the time I felt bad for the kids I guess, knowing that she was making a choice to not be part of family outing. I'm talking pre-trip. And knowing they (kids) very soon wont want to go as a family. I just thought we need to capitalize on these years. To be fair we went skiing as a family over the Christmas break and the kids really didn't say anything about missing mom until my trip to the ER. I most likely let them get away with a lot more anyway so no one suffered. If I had know about the Vegas trip in advance I just would have done pretty much the same thing. Thinking back I never called her or even thought to.
She called every 10mins or so for the next half an hour....none which I pick up because I was on making arrangements for our extraction. When I did finally answer her call I told her to stay lost for several more hours and think up what she was going to tell everyone.... better be good. Let me know the story.


The fallout is coming from many sources for my wife. I called a good friend and neighbor who is also a doctor to rescue my battered ass. The good thing for me he could talk with ER staff and then tell me how they think as an institution. Boil it down to medical facts not legal exposure. The bad thing was all the questions.... Wheres the wife?.... his wife is my wife's good friend more questions from another person. They went to my house rang the bell and pounded on the door. The parents of the other kids got involved...two of daughters friends and one of my sons.

She has stated she is going through selfish phase or stage. I asked when did she think it started and when did she predict it would be over? She mentioned this is not much different than a few years ago when I spent nights and weekends on all the different projects I had running all at once. Fair point from a time stand point. But this is not work verses play argument. This is a family play vs. personal play

Wifes background: each of her parents were married 3+ times. Her mom had additional relationships as well. It is my opinion that my wife is trying desperately to fill in some sort of love hole that most likely can't be filled externally. She has told me repeatedly over the years how I could never understand...maybe she seeks understanding. Maybe love hole is the wrong phrasing for all you perverts. It really hurts when I laugh....but you get the idea.

mono made the comment that moving form a primary role to a secondary status may devalue the relationship. I think its more of a redistribution of value, or equity.

Last point.... Some people can't learn without loss. They don't truly know what they had/have until its gone. They don't know they've gone too far until they've gone way way too far. Sorry for the length D
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:43 PM
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mono made the comment that moving form a primary role to a secondary status may devalue the relationship. I think its more of a redistribution of value, or equity.

Last point.... Some people can't learn without loss. They don't truly know what they had/have until its gone. They don't know they've gone too far until they've gone way way too far. Sorry for the length D
This is one sad story my friend. I know this is only one side, but it isn't very positive. Your wife can't seem to see beyond her own "wants".

I think you are wise to be redistributing your value both within your mind and with personal affairs. There's too much selfishness in this and you need to protect yourself emotionally and legally I think.

I hope it all works out my friend.
Take care and heal fast
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:05 PM
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This is one sad story my friend. I know this is only one side, but it isn't very positive. Your wife can't seem to see beyond her own "wants".

I think you are wise to be redistributing your value both within your mind and with personal affairs. There's too much selfishness in this and you need to protect yourself emotionally and legally I think.

I hope it all works out my friend.
Take care and heal fast
I agree with Mono. You may even want to appoint someone other than your wife to be custodian of your kids money until they are 18 or 21 (courts will automatically appoint the mother if nothing else is specified). Of course this can be changed later if things start getting better.

As for professional help, yes I did mean therapy (and not on your broken bones).
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Old 02-15-2011, 07:05 PM
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.... It is my opinion that my wife is trying desperately to fill in some sort of love hole that most likely can't be filled externally.
DH --, I have much catching up to do on this story which Mono brought to my attention in his post, but this part moved into center stage while I was reading. That's an empowering, important, insight. For the both of you. For you, especially. Hold it close. And I'll try to catch up on your story -- as time allows.

Peace!
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