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  #21  
Old 02-12-2011, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Purpurea View Post
He will tell her about the cheating next time they meet in May (they have a long-distance relationship). I think though he should tell her sooner, so she can make her own decision if under these circumstances she still wants to travel all the way to see him.
I've been in her shoes before, too. I once was in a long-distance relationship with someone I was crazy about, who had been involved with me in person and then moved away. We corresponded for about two or three months and he was so lovey-dovey toward me. We wanted to see each other again, so I made arrangements to travel, spending money I really shouldn't have. I even delayed starting a new job so I could be with him for a week.

When I got there, he told me he'd been seeing other people, and I was devastated. This was when I wanted only monogamous relationships. Never in his letters to me (yes, these were the days before email), did he indicate that there was anyone beside me that he was interested in. I had my hopes up that it would become serious and perhaps he might be someone I would want to move away for.

Not only was he seeing someone else, but he had slept with quite a few women and hadn't even been using condoms! Thankfully, he informed me of this on the day I arrived and not after a few nights of being sexual (though I always insisted on condoms). I cut my trip short and incurred more cost because the airline charged me for changing my plans.

It was just a mess, but mostly because I felt so betrayed. It is terrible when someone behaves deceptively. But waiting til I made such a long trip to tell me was even more cutting. I felt so dismissed and unimportant to him. He was surprised when I told him, "If I had known, I wouldn't have made the trip." I don't know how he didn't realize that having all the information would allow me to make an informed decision, one of which could be to walk away from the relationship. Somehow, I guess he thought I wanted to be with him no matter what. Pure arrogance on his part.

I know you don't think anything beyond your relationship with this guy is your responsibility, but if I were you I would insist that he tell her before being involved with him again. I just could not live with knowing that the person I am in love with is so uncaring, devious, and dishonest, not to mention what your involvement with him does to her.

I also think that there are probably plenty more people who would be open to a poly lifestyle than you realize, and so it really might not be as difficult as you think to find another boyfriend. But I would encourage you to be open and honest on all fronts and insist on the same personal integrity from your partners. Then you would truly be poly, not just cheating and okay with it.
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  #22  
Old 02-13-2011, 07:19 AM
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I've grown so incredibly much by being forced to finally take care of myself and especially the parts of myself I had locked away. It's the same for him. It's an amazing learning experience for both of us, it has done so much for our inner healing, I like it
What had you locked away? What has sex got to do with what you locked away? You had to have sex in order to have a learning experience? Sorry, I'm lost I think... I don't see ho this relates to taking care of yourself... The connection between learning and inner healing because you are in each others lives and having sex behind his girlfriends back is lost on me... could you explain more?

It sounds like you didn't think about it or rationalized it as necessary in order to be together learning and healing. I am not seeing how taking care of yourself in this way is beneficial to the two of you in the long run when you are about to tear someone's heart out (assuming she will feel this way that is). I would think that all the healing and learning you did would vanish when she finds out. I guess you will see.

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The funny thing with karma is, that often things are the complete opposite of what we commonly think they are. It's interesting how much everyone stresses the cheating part of this story. That's the commonly accepted view, and how most people would react. I would have said the same things not too long ago. In my opinion now though, in terms of karma (truth, enlightment, or whatever you want to call it), it was loveless of her to ask him to become her boyfriend when she felt she couldn't handle his relationship with me. And it was loveless of him to accept it. The cheating was just the natural consequence of this behavior, something that made the contradiction visible, if you want to put it that way. Without the cheating, it would be exactly the same lie, just covered a little better.
Is it not a commonly accepted view because people have experienced what it is like to cheat and what it is like to be cheated on? You sound as if you have convinced yourself. Have you and he decided this? Or is it part of the culture you live in? I just have never heard this before and am fascinated that anyone could justify hurting someone else as necessary because they are thinking of themselves. To me it sounds selfish and completely goes against my value of what I put out into the world I receive in return eventually (Karma).

I agree, the two of them should not of made the agreement they did. It sounds like they were naive to think that the love they shared and passion was only meant for the two of them. Why did he not say so when he realized this rather than cheat? Why did he continue on deceiving her? What purpose does it serve to continue to deceive her? Is it out of fear that you are both waiting to tell her? If it is not a big deal to either of you that she might have some emotion, then why not tell her now? Why not tell her right after it happened? Is it because he believes that it is her problem if she is hurt, in pain and devastated that he has broken his promise...? Is it because it is so not a big deal that the two of you are shrugging it off?

These kind of agreements made in love ARE like a child's bond with its parent. Yes you are adults, but you were kids once too and that feeling of belonging and mutual love of one another contained in boundaries and a list of monogamous rules runs very strong for most people in the world because it came from the first relationship we had.... the one with our parents. Extending that to other loves requires trust, honesty, openness and integrity to me. I will be interested to see how this works out for you. Please keep us posted
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  #23  
Old 02-13-2011, 07:28 AM
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f. We will not die when our partners cheat on us, it doesn't even keep us from becoming happy, if we don't let it. So, if we are scared that others could cheat on us, we make us emotionally dependent from them, we keep this fear in us alive, that if they cheat on us we won't be able to handle it. But the truth is, we can handle it. It's not nice to be cheated on, but it's no catastrophe either, if we don't make it one. Or in terms of karma: It's bad for their karma, not for ours. But worrying about being cheated on and being devastated when it happens, is bad for our karma.
There is no fear of cheating here though, you two already have. The fear seems to lie in telling her in a timely fashion. No no one will die, but I am willing to bet that a piece of this woman will die when she finds out. That piece being her trust in others and her willingness to make herself vulnerable to another man ever again. You can't bank on her not making this catastophic. She might very well make this HUGE. And she has every right to. She has every right to feel what ever it is that she is feeling. That is human and completely acceptable. Turning this into a nice little package that explains to her that it is okay that he broke his agreement with her is likely not going to go over well I think. I doubt that she is going to buy what you are selling. Of course I could be completely wrong. I wonder if there is not some inkling that this might not go as well as you both think and this is why you aren't telling her as soon as you can.

This woman is not worrying about anyone cheating on her necessarily. You aren't, he isn't... the thing is, Karma comes from actually doing stuff, not musing on it maybe happening. I am willing to bet also that from now on, in any relationship she has that she will be wondering if the man she is with is cheating, because that trust will die a little with this. At least that is usually the case.
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  #24  
Old 02-13-2011, 07:30 AM
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I know you don't think anything beyond your relationship with this guy is your responsibility, but if I were you I would insist that he tell her before being involved with him again. I just could not live with knowing that the person I am in love with is so uncaring, devious, and dishonest, not to mention what your involvement with him does to her.
I think it is indeed my responsibility to tell him my opinion about his behavior, and I have told him already that I think he should tell her right away. He rather wants to talk to her face to face than over the phone, which I understand, but that only works when you can see each other every day, or if it is something that is not that important. But he's a grown-up person, so I can't and won't make decisions for him, make him do something, or punish him. It was the same thing when he told me over the phone that we won't have sex any longer. I asked him why and he said we will talk about it next time we meet. He was very upset when I told him that I want to know now, not wait another week guessing what it might be. Holding back information from others is quite manipulative, I absolutely agree with you.

How can I live with it? Because I understand him. Because I know that although his behavior is uncaring, devious, and dishonest, he as a person is not. I'm not mad at him because of the mistakes he makes, I feel rather sorry for him. Loveless behavior towards others, is always loveless behavior towards ourselves in the first place, and that's actually pretty sad. People who act loveless, actually need love most of all. There is this proverb "Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it." and I think it holds a lot of wisdom. We all act loveless in one way or another. I might not hold back information from others, but I'm pretty sure I make some equally stupid mistakes without even being aware of it. I'm not religious, and I don't agree with the negative image of the Christian churches of all humans being sinners, but in the bible Jesus says: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." And no stone was cast. So I will not cast stones at others for their mistakes.

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I also think that there are probably plenty more people who would be open to a poly lifestyle than you realize, and so it really might not be as difficult as you think to find another boyfriend. But I would encourage you to be open and honest on all fronts and insist on the same personal integrity from your partners. Then you would truly be poly, not just cheating and okay with it.
That would indeed be great, and I hope I will find those people sooner or later. At the moment I rather feel like an alien with all my weird paradox views. I guess I'm not a human being, I just happen to look like one I will not leave my friend though, no matter what he does or who I will meet in the future. Leaving others because it hurts too much, is making them responsible for how I feel. I rather focus on overcoming the hurt than getting rid of the person who triggered it. I'm sure that in the long run I and the people around me will benefit from staying more than from leaving. The only thing that would make me leave is any kind of physical harm, as I won't be able to overcome the physical boundaries of this existence. But I can learn to overcome all emotional dependences.
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  #25  
Old 02-13-2011, 07:48 AM
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Thanks for this last post, even if it wasn't directed towards me I can see that you and he are working on it and figuring out some stuff. He is indeed human as are you. This kind of thing is not easy and requires much effort of the heart and brain. Good luck with it all.
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  #26  
Old 02-13-2011, 08:03 AM
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I like your questions, redpepper. It seems as if you were pretty open-minded towards my views, even though you disagree with lots of them. Your questions also make me think again, that's great

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
What had you locked away? What has sex got to do with what you locked away? You had to have sex in order to have a learning experience? Sorry, I'm lost I think... I don't see ho this relates to taking care of yourself... The connection between learning and inner healing because you are in each others lives and having sex behind his girlfriends back is lost on me... could you explain more?
I was talking about our relationship in general, not the specific situation. Having sex is not necessary for our relationship or it being beneficial.

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Is it not a commonly accepted view because people have experienced what it is like to cheat and what it is like to be cheated on? You sound as if you have convinced yourself. Have you and he decided this? Or is it part of the culture you live in? I just have never heard this before and am fascinated that anyone could justify hurting someone else as necessary because they are thinking of themselves. To me it sounds selfish and completely goes against my value of what I put out into the world I receive in return eventually (Karma).

I agree, the two of them should not of made the agreement they did. It sounds like they were naive to think that the love they shared and passion was only meant for the two of them. Why did he not say so when he realized this rather than cheat? Why did he continue on deceiving her? What purpose does it serve to continue to deceive her? Is it out of fear that you are both waiting to tell her? If it is not a big deal to either of you that she might have some emotion, then why not tell her now? Why not tell her right after it happened? Is it because he believes that it is her problem if she is hurt, in pain and devastated that he has broken his promise...? Is it because it is so not a big deal that the two of you are shrugging it off?
He doesn't share my view about this thing. He is not pro open relationships or even poly relationships any longer. He was before she asked him to become her boyfriend, but now he doesn't believe that poly relationships could work. He was scared of losing her, and changing his opinion about poly relationships and not telling her right now that he cheated on her, is I guess also driven by the fear of losing her and not seeing her again. He thinks that having sex with me was a mistake. And he thinks that being with her in a monogamous relationship is the right thing to do and what will really make him happy in the long run. And he says he will never change his view about it again, and that it will be like this forever

Quote:
There is no fear of cheating here though, you two already have. The fear seems to lie in telling her in a timely fashion. No no one will die, but I am willing to bet that a piece of this woman will die when she finds out. That piece being her trust in others and her willingness to make herself vulnerable to another man ever again. You can't bank on her not making this catastophic. She might very well make this HUGE. And she has every right to. She has every right to feel what ever it is that she is feeling. That is human and completely acceptable. Turning this into a nice little package that explains to her that it is okay that he broke his agreement with her is likely not going to go over well I think. I doubt that she is going to buy what you are selling. Of course I could be completely wrong. I wonder if there is not some inkling that this might not go as well as you both think and this is why you aren't telling her as soon as you can.
Of course, she has every right to feel whatever she feels. I'm not judging it, I have a lot of understanding for her feelings. What I think will most likely happen is that he will downplay the cheating, or not be completely honest about it towards her. She will feel very hurt, and he will promise to try to resist me better in the future. Maybe she will ask him to stay away from me physically, I don't know. I don't know how he will react to it, as he said to me that he would never give up cuddling with me. I'm pretty curious about what will happen in May. I might even lose him, I'm aware of that.

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I will be interested to see how this works out for you. Please keep us posted
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  #27  
Old 02-13-2011, 08:18 AM
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I used to listen to this radio show where the host was a psychologist. She was a big fan of not telling about cheating. Her advice was to deal with it oneself and change! She thought that it was better to hold that feeling inside of having done something terribly wrong against another and not let them ever know what you did so that they would then not suffer. The thought being that once someone knows they have been cheated on that they then wear the burden of that and that the cheater has then put something on them. I can see that idea in a way because the person then is relieved of their guilt and their own pain and passes on the coat of it to the person they have cheated on.

It might not be such a bad thing if he doesn't tell her. The thing is to make a change in himself and come out clean with himself. This might mean that you will lose him. I'm sorry if that is the case... as it will hurt you. What I am not sorry about is the fact that he will be gone so that you can create something better. You deserve better... someone who is willing to make an effort that shows you that he wants to honour your existence in his life by being up front, rather than shuffle you away and have sex with you behind someone else's back. Sure you learned a lot and stuff, but I believe that even if we don't agree on your role and responsibility in all this, anyone deserves better than to be a mistress to someone else's cheating behaviour.
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  #28  
Old 02-13-2011, 08:40 AM
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He will definitely tell her, that's for sure. I once thought myself it's better not to tell your partner that you cheated on him and deal with it on your own. But now I think it's manipulative, selfish and patronizing. You actually lie to your partner, he keeps thinking you never cheated on him. You keep the truth from him. If you told him, he might leave you, and therefore living with the burden of having cheated and lying to your partner, might seem easier than facing the fear of losing him. Trying to protect your partner from the hurt, might seem very kind, but it's patronizing to act as if he wasn't able to deal with it. Again, you're taking over responsibility for how he feels, plus you don't take over responsibility for your behavior.

Concerning that I deserve better: The first thought I had when he told me that he is her boyfriend now, was that I will leave him. I felt hurt, I was upset, I had all kinds of negative feelings. But like I said before, my relationship with him the way it is now doesn't keep me from pursuing any of my goals. I can build up close relationships with others, I can have sex with others, I can in fact do whatever I want. So while in the beginning I thought that she gets everything, he only has to give up a little, and I'm the one to suffer, I now think that my position is the best in this triangle. She will continue to be scared of that he will cheat on her, he will have to work hard to resist having sex with other women, while I... I'm just fine now, you know. I'm not even scared of losing him. I don't want to lose him, but it won't break me.

Last edited by Purpurea; 02-13-2011 at 08:45 AM.
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  #29  
Old 02-13-2011, 10:01 AM
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Hi again. Everything you've said in your last three posts does make a lot of sense. I do understand your viewpoint. It sounds like it is working very well for you, the only sticking point being that he has not been honest with her about what he's doing. If he tells her, and all three of you continue as you were, openly and honestly, it sounds like a good arrangement. You are certainly very intelligent and aware and have made your choices and accepted them. I can admire your strength, although I would make different choices (I think). Sometimes you don't know what kind of situation you will find yourself in. At this point in my life, I don't think I would like being in a triangle with that dynamic, but I understand it.

Just wondering if there is anyone else in his life that he has the same kind of "friendship" with, that he has with you. If you discovered there was someone else he was seeing, how do you think you would handle that?
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  #30  
Old 02-13-2011, 01:13 PM
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If you discovered there was someone else he was seeing, how do you think you would handle that?
After I've learnt to deal with the feeling that he has chosen her over me, I think I could also deal with the feeling that he has someone else he is friends with.

Right now he has a lot of issues with my reaction to his decision, and my opinion about it. That's why I said I'm aware of that I could lose him. Looks like the easiest way for him to get rid of the contradiction in his head is to get rid of me. Poor him But we'll see.
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