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Old 02-11-2011, 06:42 PM
zephyr zephyr is offline
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Default Feeling left out in sexually in my triad

Hey all,

I'm one of the females in an MFF closed triad. We're still "shaking down" all the things which change when bringing a third person into an established relationship. I am the legal wife of the M in the triad -- I've been with him for 20 years. We've had some sexual "dry spells" in the past, but with just two, I could pass it off as "not me".

What I'm struggling with right now is feeling sexually desired by both my partners -- I don't. I do not doubt their love for me at all. I doubt their desire for me.

The reality of the sexual equation is that I am the slow-coach, compared to my two partners. When we're all three together, I'm the last one to orgasm -- if at all. Our girlfriend is particularly into giving him blowjobs -- fine by me. And I feel like I've been an attentive girlfriend to her, seeing to her needs. But while they are being satisfied two or three times a week, I go a week plus sometimes. (Occasionally, there's play with me which does not result in an orgasm for me and I'm not counting those times right now -- it's important I think.)

As we settle in together, I feel like if she approaches me independently, I have to be "in the mood" because I don't know when I'm going to get any attention from her again. And sometimes, she makes me feel like I'm greedy-grabby, wanting to have sex with her all the time. As though I'm approaching her enough that she feels she can turn me down.

I think some of it boils down to this: he leaves for work every morning. She works from home. I'm home, but don't work. So, I'm an "easy commodity" I guess. He's not, so she's pouncing on him in the AM before work and/or in the PM after work. I'm always welcome, but I don't get as hot-and-bothered by the whole blow job thing (sensitive gag reflex and a tiny mouth) -- and while I do like penetration, I do not orgasm from it, which sometimes just makes me feel dumb. He can get off, she can get off and there I am, left hanging and raring to go... and they are done.

I find I'm distancing myself from them when I think time is limited and she's getting into it with him -- I don't want yet another episode of "Zephyr didn't orgasm" or yet one more time where my own feelings are exacerbated by feeling left out.

I know me distancing myself isn't helping things. We've talked about this whole situation. And I've felt "under the spotlight" a little when they both decide to "focus on Zephyr". And some conversations on this topic have resulted in fights (which we're stilling learning how to handle with each other).

I'd be fine with them having play-time alone, without me, as long as there was a general reciprocity: she and me or he and me. But she insists on me being there.

Recently, we've talked about how she "got her stubborn on" and refused to give up until I did have an orgasm -- that was working for a while. Then, just the other night, she said, "Do you want me to be stubborn, or do you want to watch a movie?" (Or words to that effect.) In the clear light of day, I can see that I should have said what I was feeling, "Be stubborn, dammit!" But when she made it a choice, I felt she was saying, "I don't want to work that hard tonight," and I backed away and we watched a movie.

So, I'm left feeling:
  1. I can't really talk, for fear of starting a fight (which, so far, I feel I always lose)
  2. Left out because I'm slow
  3. That she really doesn't desire me -- or desire to please me
  4. That he's getting all he needs from her, so why come to me at all
  5. I'd really just like to leave the room, but I'm afraid of that starting a fight -- despite the fact that she expects us to let her leave the room if we're playing and she has a wiggins moment.

This is all starting to fester and I don't know how to break it down. All the words in the world about being beautiful and desireable don't really matter when my body is left "in the lurch" and when neither of my partners is coming to me for my needs.

I feel extremely silly and stupid that all this is bugging me so much. How do I deal?

Zephyr
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:19 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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I think you put your feelings into words EXTREMELY well, and this is no easy subject!!! I have great difficulty reaching orgasms too. I don't want to be anyone's little project. Also, I shut down if I feel the pressure is on, to hurry up, come on and orgasm (thoughts in MY HEAD ONLY, but still very present and enough to shut me down). I am very sensitive to the efforts of my partner. I don't want to overextend him. Sometimes stubborn works, but once I suspect he is not enjoying it, (EVEN if he IS enjoying it but I have a slight doubt), I'm done! I simply cannot see my orgasm as a gift to someone else, as a reward for their efforts. TOO MUCH PRESSURE.

Lately I have been trying to enjoy the other lovely things about sex, and not letting the orgasm be my main focus. I have a BOB* that I can use at my own leisure to take care of the physical release. Didn't someone say that my orgasms are my own responsiblity? I think I read that somewhere, and it was freeing, for me. I love people too much to put that expectation on them. Especially when an orgasm only lasts... how long? I mean, we're talking seconds!

However, I do feel that when there is a third party involved, it is hard not to be very aware and sensitive of what is going on with the other two. Comparisons can really get you into some trouble. Personally I think it would benefit you immensely to have some one-on-one time with each of your lovers. It sounds like you might be able to relax a little bit easier.

*BOB = Battery Operated Boyfriend
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:50 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Well pressuring someone who has a hard time orgasming sure isn't going to help. That never works.

Quote:
I'd be fine with them having play-time alone, without me, as long as there was a general reciprocity: she and me or he and me. But she insists on me being there.
Thats a bit of a red flag. So she controls this? If he doesn't mind, and you don't mind. Then she should suck it up and learn to deal. It may be a triad but there are 4 intertwining relationships in this. She can't be involved in all of them. Sounds like she has self esteem problems and is scared to be left alone.

Quote:
Recently, we've talked about how she "got her stubborn on" and refused to give up until I did have an orgasm -- that was working for a while. Then, just the other night, she said, "Do you want me to be stubborn, or do you want to watch a movie?" (Or words to that effect.) In the clear light of day, I can see that I should have said what I was feeling, "Be stubborn, dammit!" But when she made it a choice, I felt she was saying, "I don't want to work that hard tonight," and I backed away and we watched a movie.
She sounds like an ignorant guy (yes I am being sexist haha) about female orgasms. I don't have any advice. How old is she? This sounds like something someone young would still believe. Maybe her ego is broken because she can't make you orgasm, which is why she is trying so hard. More stroking of her own ego, when it doesn't happen, she feels her skills are deflated.

This one is about you. You have to realize you are putting pressure on yourself (or are they?) people have different sex drives, at different times, and in different places. It happens. The fun of involving multiple people is how diverse everyone is.

curious is there some NRE happening between them that may be wearing out on you and her?

Quote:
So, I'm left feeling:
I can't really talk, for fear of starting a fight (which, so far, I feel I always lose)
Do they gang up on you? Is that why you always lose, or do you give in because it isn't worth it. Have you tried writing a letter and being REALLY clear about what you want vs what they feel YOU want?

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Left out because I'm slow
.. gotta stop blaming yourself for your own bodies reactions to sex. Not good

I am a multi orgasmic male. If I was dating and my gf had a bf who wasn't able to cum multiple times. Is it my fault for being able to, or his fault for not being able to? Its neither...its just the way it is.

Quote:
That she really doesn't desire me -- or desire to please me
Ding ding, maybe? Not all triads are created equal. Most look more like isosceles (usually a scalene to be honest) triangles. Its one of the biggest reasons closed triads are hard. Someone usually feels like the odd side.

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That he's getting all he needs from her, so why come to me at all
Comparitives like this are dangerous. He loves ya, has a long life with you and family. He lusts for her. It happens. Don't ride this thought to hard

Quote:
I'd really just like to leave the room, but I'm afraid of that starting a fight -- despite the fact that she expects us to let her leave the room if we're playing and she has a wiggins moment.
You have a right to do whatever you want. Always. If you were dating someone who weirded you out, would you go into the bedroom with them?... its your body, your choice...

Last question, how clear (and this relates to the above thought on writing a letter) how clear have you been about your sexual needs. Maybe it needs to be as clear as day. It might take out some of the exploratory fun, but if you are being left in the lurch...you might need to make a serious stand.

Last edited by redpepper; 02-13-2011 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:51 PM
zephyr zephyr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carma View Post
I think you put your feelings into words EXTREMELY well, and this is no easy subject!!! I have great difficulty reaching orgasms too. I don't want to be anyone's little project. Also, I shut down if I feel the pressure is on, to hurry up, come on and orgasm (thoughts in MY HEAD ONLY, but still very present and enough to shut me down). I am very sensitive to the efforts of my partner. I don't want to overextend him. Sometimes stubborn works, but once I suspect he is not enjoying it, (EVEN if he IS enjoying it but I have a slight doubt), I'm done! I simply cannot see my orgasm as a gift to someone else, as a reward for their efforts. TOO MUCH PRESSURE.
Oh, this. Exactly and totally this!!!! It's comforting to know I'm not the only one feeling all of this.

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Originally Posted by Carma View Post
Lately I have been trying to enjoy the other lovely things about sex, and not letting the orgasm be my main focus. I have a BOB* that I can use at my own leisure to take care of the physical release. Didn't someone say that my orgasms are my own responsiblity? I think I read that somewhere, and it was freeing, for me. I love people too much to put that expectation on them. Especially when an orgasm only lasts... how long? I mean, we're talking seconds!
Hmmm.... It could be challenging to get some time to myself, BOB or no BOB. However, I think just the willingness to get all sexy with me would be nice. Touch is so important -- there's general touch and there's sexy touch. And right now, I feel both are not happening nearly enough.

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Originally Posted by Carma View Post
However, I do feel that when there is a third party involved, it is hard not to be very aware and sensitive of what is going on with the other two. Comparisons can really get you into some trouble.
Comparisons are a tough thing to avoid. I've been trying for a little while now and it's not getting any easier to avoid them.

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Originally Posted by Carma View Post
Personally I think it would benefit you immensely to have some one-on-one time with each of your lovers. It sounds like you might be able to relax a little bit easier.
I find I do relax more when it's just one-on-one. However, right now, I think there's 2 things going on:

With her, I feel just a general lack of interest to be with me, which she denies when I say something about it. Perhaps it's just dumb luck and timing, but she's never really available/interested when it's just the two of us any more. So, it feels like, "I guess he is getting her motor revving and I'm just along for the ride." I feel I give my all and more to her pleasure, trusting she will do the same for me. It's getting a little harder to extend that trust...

The other thing is him. He doesn't approach me. I kinda expected there to be a time period where she was the new playmate in the relationship and we'd both go to her and want to play. I think I'm disheartened that he's no longer approaching me. And because of that, I find it hard to approach him. At first, it was a bit of a turn-on that he was always telling me how much he loved her mouth and such. But now it's starting to grate on me. I want to bark, "yeah, I get it. She's got a great mouth. Move on!" (Totally not conducive to a calm, loving encounter!) The other night there was a situation (not sure if I should share all the details here...) in which he was able to penetrate her, but not me. I can't seem to help think about things like that and think, "See? They don't really desire you. You're just handy sometimes."

Unfortunately, I'm the kind of person where my mood shows on my face. I've already been approached once today by him, asking if I'm okay. I've finally gotten them to allow me to say, "I'm not ready to talk about it." and give me some space. But, that also requires that, if I want to discuss this, I will have to approach him. I suppose he's talked to her and she's equally giving me space today even though I haven't asked her to (but would want it anyway). So, they both know I'm upset. I'm guessing they are both linking it to this morning's blow job, when really it's just another straw on the camel's back. I just don't know how to have that conversation with them....

Zephyr
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:03 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Originally Posted by zephyr View Post
With her, I feel just a general lack of interest to be with me, which she denies when I say something about it. Perhaps it's just dumb luck and timing, but she's never really available/interested when it's just the two of us any more. So, it feels like, "I guess he is getting her motor revving and I'm just along for the ride." I feel I give my all and more to her pleasure, trusting she will do the same for me. It's getting a little harder to extend that trust...
I realize this might be a vanilla relationship (sorry I am guessing since you don't mention any sexual dynamics beyond sex). But sometimes sexual compatibility plays a role in desire. If he is dominant sexually and she is submissive, his moves turn her on and visa versa. If you two are similar, and don't turn each other on the same way, it could be as much something about compatibility as it is about desire.

The sexual dynamic is an important one... it might be good to understand what each of you bring to the table.

Quote:
I find I do relax more when it's just one-on-one. However, right now, I think there's 2 things going on:
Group dynamic isn't for everyone. You might need to look at that angle too. Not everyone wants a hot threesome everytime. It doesn't make you less poly, it just makes you less likely to lie in bed with two people everytime.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:19 PM
zephyr zephyr is offline
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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
Thats a bit of a red flag. So she controls this? If he doesn't mind, and you don't mind. Then she should suck it up and learn to deal. It may be a triad but there are 4 intertwining relationships in this. She can't be involved in all of them. Sounds like she has self esteem problems and is scared to be left alone.
I think her insistence that I join them is an effort to make me feel desired (?). But I think most of it is that she's not ready to explore two of us being together when the other is around.

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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
She sounds like an ignorant guy (yes I am being sexist haha) about female orgasms. I don't have any advice. How old is she? This sounds like something someone young would still believe. Maybe her ego is broken because she can't make you orgasm, which is why she is trying so hard. More stroking of her own ego, when it doesn't happen, she feels her skills are deflated.
I think there was, at first, when she was getting to know my physical reactions and needs, a sense of ego involved. I think it disturbed her she couldn't bring me to orgasm.

But, I think she also has begun to understand how I react -- I get frustrated and think my partner is bored, so I give up. And that was where the stubborn came from -- she wasn't going to give up or let me give up. If I said, "No, I'm done. I need to stop," I trust her 100% that she would accept that.

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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
curious is there some NRE happening between them that may be wearing out on you and her?
I think what's happening most of all, if I look at this very clinically is this: Because I don't orgasm easily, I have been loathe to initiate sex with my husband for quite some time -- even before she joined us. Now, she's here, with a high sex drive and he's getting blow jobs and sex with a very responsive partner 2-3 times a week. So, from his perspective, I can totally see some preferential treatment for her being almost a "Duh!" thing. You select for the one that's hitting all the right buttons. That's compounding my own anxieties about my lack of responsiveness.

One thing I don't do is fake it. Never have, never will. It's self-defeating. So, I'm pretty quiet until the fireworks start -- which is, admittedly, a long time for a partner to go with no real feedback. So, I can see the preference making a logical sense.

It just hurts and makes me want to curl up and hide from them both. "Fine. Go get your ya-yas out, but quit putting it in my face all the time. Quit trying to include me but leaving me hanging, all revved up but totally unsatisfied."

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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
Do they gang up on you? Is that why you always lose, or do you give in because it isn't worth it. Have you tried writing a letter and being REALLY clear about what you want vs what they feel YOU want?
They do not gang up on me. I just don't communicate as well in person as I do "on paper". I don't have the time to formulate my entire thought process and get it out cleanly and clearly -- and to edit to protect feelings and egos. When I'm face-to-face, I'm pretty raw and vulnerable. On paper, I can distance myself and "deal" better.

I think I do give in because I perceive myself as the most vulnerable member of the three of us.

I'm ready to write a letter, but I honestly don't know what to say and whether I should write one letter to them both or two separate letters.

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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
.. gotta stop blaming yourself for your own bodies reactions to sex. Not good
I'm not blaming myself for being slow here. I'm saying that I feel they are focusing on each other because it's more satisfying than focusing on me. When I get upset and try to talk about it, they decide to focus on me -- and that's a lot of pressure and a lot of physical attention. I overload with no orgasm. No fun.

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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
Ding ding, maybe? Not all triads are created equal. Most look more like isosceles triangles. Its one of the biggest reasons closed triads are hard. Someone usually feels like the odd side.
I just don't know (yet) if this is my own insecurities or reality. She swears it's just my insecurities, but she doesn't pounce on me much anymore.

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Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
You have a right to do whatever you want. Always. If you were dating someone who weirded you out, would you go into the bedroom with them?... its your body, your choice...
She has valid reasons in her own background for needing to leave and not participate, if we were all in the room together when something started. And I've vowed I'd never make her feel bad for needing to leave. But my own reasons for leaving, I feel, would start a fight. I told her as much the other day (we were talking, not in a play situation). She's focused on "I don't want you to feel like you are not welcome in your own bedroom." I'm focused on, "I don't want to feel like I'm a spectator while they play." And lately, that's how I feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
Last question, how clear (and this relates to the above thought on writing a letter) how clear have you been about your sexual needs. Maybe it needs to be as clear as day. It might take out some of the exploratory fun, but if you are being left in the lurch...you might need to make a serious stand.
I don't think I've been too clear with her where my feeling undesired by her is. And I think I'm loathe to start that conversation because I don't feel it will happen without a fight. So, what do I do? Just be miserable in silence, or try to talk/write to her and let the fight happen if it does?

Zephyr
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:46 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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I would go point for point again. But I think the first thing that needs to happen is you need to feel safe to bring up and discuss points without feeling scared of a fight. Thats not a great way to live within a relationship.

Never live in miserable silence. You have to figure out how to talk to them about your needs and desires and not be afraid of a fight. Sorry scratch that, they have to learn how not to panic and fight with you everytime something is brought up that causes them discomfort. Thats not way to live within a relationship. Nothing will work long term if all 3 sides can't talk.

I mention writing a letter, because it gives the other side time to think and re-read, and you time to be clear. By removing the visual queues sometimes the factual context of the letter will sink in better. I am not sure what you have tried or havent tried. But you have a right to feel what you feel and want what you want.

and yes, I know as I write this I make it sound like puppies and rainbows and life will be easy. It isn't, poly is hard work, it isn't as simple as just two people. There are other feelings involved now making in far more complex.
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:55 PM
meyesekrit meyesekrit is offline
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Default another thing to try?

I've had times when reaching orgasm was nearly impossible. And while mine is "Chester" not B.O.B. (just a fun name....and it's plugged into the wall for REAL power) I did find a solution that worked most of the time.

While my partner enjoys watching and listening to me play with a toy....there were times that just wasn't where my head was. Instead, I would ask for some alone time...PRIOR TO our alone time. A gentle..."sweetie, why don't you take a hot shower for 20 minutes...." or something similar, gave me the opportunity and privacy to warm up the engine - so to speak.

I found that when he then joined me....it was much easier for me to respond to our combined efforts. Basically, I was already there.

Not sure if this will help.....in some fashion. Time alone first.....time with just one partner first....time for some sensual massage with 1 or both BEFORE moving on to other activities.

For me....it was about acknowledging it was OK to feel what I feel, and OK to change things up to make it work for me. That acceptance brought peace, which led to better intimacy.

Cheers,
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:27 PM
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What do you mean, youre home, but don't work? Are you raising young children, running a household, cooking and cleaning? Thats work. You must be doing something if you dont have time for a nice quiet daily vibrator session...

It sounds to me like you need to love yourself. Go for it, orgasmic capacity can be learned and increased. You might even teach yourself to become multi orgasmic.

Read The Woman's Anatomy of Arousal. Excellent book about learning to claim our birthright of sexual delight. For example, you said you don't make sounds when having sex til the moment of orgasm? The author encourages making sounds as your arousal builds. She also offers lots of tips for partners.

I think you need to own your sexuality. I say that with love.

Having another woman in the mix who seems more sexual than you would really compound the sexual problems you and your husband were already having.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:32 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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How about trying some reframing? In other words, look at some of the issues from a different perspective, give it new context.

I would start by no longer telling yourself you "don't orgasm easily." It may simply be that you haven't yet found the best technique yet that makes you cum. Once you find it, it will hella happen real easily! And btw, many women do not cum from penetration, that's no biggie. I'm not sure if I ever have. But seriously, doesn't looking at it like, "Hmm, I just haven't found it yet" seem more fun and exciting than, "I don't orgasm easily?" One perks up my ears, the other makes me pout.

And instead of looking at all this as a problem, and an issue, and a concern -- ugh, heavy! -- make it a game. Call it, "How Many Ways Can Zephyr Cum?" Keep it fun and light. Try different positions, techniques, repetitive movements, pressures, etc. Start looking at different options that you haven't tried yet. Think of it like a treasure hunt.

What about tribbing with her? What about doing something all three at once instead of two doing it while one watches? How about leaning back on your husband and letting him hold you and play with your tits while you stroke him and she goes to town on you? What about all of you bringing your toys to bed? Get some fun stuff like sleep masks/blindfolds, lotions, fancy lingerie, etc. Maybe watch some good porn together beforehand. Look into buying some toys that are designed to reach the G-spot. Have fun with this, don't give in to envy. These are just for a start. Explore!

Recently, I had about three instances where I didn't think I could relax enough to cum. This was while a lover was going down on me, which is generallly the bona-fide 100% way to bring me to orgasm. But I was really in my head at those moments, more than in my body. As I understand it, women tend to think a lot during sex, and thoughts can be distracting. One of those three times, I just couldn't relax and took a break. I had to accept reality -- there was construction going on in my building and just as I was getting close to the edge, all this hammering started outside my window -- I couldn't ignore it, haha! But the other two times was just my own mental processes getting in the way. What helped was I somehow surrendered to the physical, and literally felt my mind give up fighting against it (not that I didn't want to cum, I just thought I wouldn't). I just focused on the sensations and they carried me away. I don't even think I was aware of who I was with when I did cum, haha!

Both those times were the most intense, mind-blowing orgasms I've ever had. The most recent one lasted longer than I thought it was possible for an orgasm to last. So, to me, these experiences illustrate the point that it has lots to do with tension and the mental pressures we put on ourselves.

That's why I say stop berating yourself and seeing this is a problem, and instead make it a game or a fun challenge. Relax with it. If there's relationship stuff getting in the way, that's one thing that will reveal itself if it needs tending to, but the sex and physical aspect of the dynamic can be looked at and explored in a more lighthearted manner. As they say at Toys in Babeland, "Laugh and don't be afraid to make a mess!"
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Last edited by nycindie; 02-11-2011 at 09:49 PM.
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