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  #51  
Old 02-10-2011, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
We've worked through all of that Magdlyn. I put something on the table to give her and Leo the space to continue with their level of intimacy. It was turned down but I wondered how others would feel about it.
So, on that note, can we return to that question? Because I happen to be interested in exploring it. I've just returned from an hour long bath with Maca where we were discussing it and I think it warrants more attention...
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:44 AM
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A workable compromise is one that actually works for all of those involved. If you need space from those two while they're together, then any working solution has to provide you with that space. You are responsible for making certain any solution works for you.

So, any proposed solutions that fail to keep you comfortable enough to stay engaged at the level you were are non-starters. It may, indeed, require that you be less engaged in group activities to stay comfortable.

Added: No solution can consist, in whole or part, of somebody saying to someone else, in effect "Well, you have to change for this to work."
Oh so true. I was just talking about that.

I think it's hard sometimes for us to remember that what we think/feel/see is all "colored" by our prior experience and limited understanding. It's important to remind ourselves that other people haven't lived our lives and we haven't lived theirs.

It's such a huge thing for people to open up their intimate fears/concerns/vulnerabilities-
often we think it's easier on the board (here) because we're all "hidden" behind a pseudonym. But the truth is that in Mono and RP's case, that's not really true. To a VERY LARGE degree, the people on this board know who they are in RL, so opening up and divulging their own weaknesses, struggles and intimate vulnerabilities is much the same as if they were standing up in the middle of town square doing.
Something I dare say a majority of us wouldn't have the balls to do.

Mon-I'd like to keep the thread going. I think it took a turn "for the worst" by inadvertent lack of understanding for the... needed focus and delicacy.

BUT-I think it's a valuable discussion and in more ways than one I think it relates to a LOT of what is being discussed and contemplated all over the board...
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  #53  
Old 02-10-2011, 12:49 AM
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A workable compromise is one that actually works for all of those involved. If you need space from those two while they're together, then any working solution has to provide you with that space. You are responsible for making certain any solution works for you.

."
Valuable points. There is definitely a high degree of personal responsibility in taking certain paths. The tricky part seems to be in trying to predict anything with certainty without first experiencing the emotions and impact of travelling down that path. That is where the risk factor comes into play; I can say anything but when reality kicks in, what happens when compromise is put to the test? Thanks for the advice
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:51 AM
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Oh so true. I'd like to keep the thread going. I think it took a turn "for the worst" by inadvertent lack of understanding for the... needed focus and delicacy.

BUT-I think it's a valuable discussion and in more ways than one I think it relates to a LOT of what is being discussed and contemplated all over the board...
Of course LR...(Everything is public so I really have no control in any case )...we are here to share and learn. I'm glad you find some value in it.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:51 AM
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Mono, The confusing part to me is that I understood RP has not had sex with Leo, thus respected your boundaries. But the night he came over and stayed in her bedroom started off a whole slew of discomfort for you, Mono. Yet you say you're not jealous. Yet, RP apologized in other thread for breaking your trust. What did she do? That is still not clear. What does she want to do? She has said she will not move forward with Leo and still there is a shit storm to deal with. What does stepping back mean for you, exactly? You sometimes wax poetic and are somewhat vague in describing certain aspects of your situation. We're all just trying to understand what the hell you're talking about. No one is picking on you or posing questions as a way to bitch at you or poke fun.

It does look as if, from the outside, that your boundaries (which really come across as rules to me) have essentially placed RP in a mono relationship with you. You have managed to exert some powerful control over her. I know she has said that the sex with you is more satisfying than it is with others, or at least, being with you involves lots of sex. She's not sexual very often with her husband or other partners who were (I believe) in her life before you came on the scene, so it's like she's living a pretty much mono lifestyle in deference to you, despite the fact that a poly tribe is something she has said she strives for.

I don't think your stepping back is an unreasonable shift to make in order for you to handle the addition of another partner in her life (as long as you won't be pouting about it). And while it's ridiculous to think that adding someone new to the mix wouldn't demand changes all around the tribe, you seem unwilling to look further into why it would bother you so much. It's like you've dug your heels in and said, "this is just the way I am" without wanting any suggestions that there could be jealousy or other issues at play here. But, okay, let's say it is just the way you are and you do step back and RP takes on Leo as a full-on sexual partner and lover, and maybe other people, too, for that matter. How will you handle what may happen if lovemaking with Leo or another eclipses lovemaking with you, just as lovemaking with you eclipsed lovemaking with PN. Are you prepared for that? Maybe you can handle her relationships with PN and Derby because on some level you feel you've got the upper hand and are superior, or preferred, in your lovemaking, but Leo is an unknown. He throws doubt into the mix. She could wind up preferring his lovemaking over everyone else's. Hmm.

Even though you are mono and feel the need for connection to be sexual with her, I fail to understand how other, additional relationships RP has would be more of a threat to your connection than the ones she currently has besides you. It just does not make sense. If you allow some and not others, it's not quite poly, not quite mono, but you remain in control.

Perhaps this whole issue is rooted in your need for some sense of control in the situation. I'm not using the word "control" negatively. Human beings do often find comfort in some sense of order in life, and feeling like we have a handle on things. Perhaps, however, your need to be okay with the relationships RP has could be better handled by your own personal work on yourself rather than imposing limitations on whom and how RP loves and makes love to. She is poly, after all.
Thank you for this post NYCindie. No doubt it was a hard one for Mono to hear. Your thoughts are valid and are useful. All of which have gone through my head also... the thing is that I chose at this point to back away from anything with Leo because I believe it is worth trying first. This isn't giving Mono control so much as doing what I need to do for me.

Indeed it is possible that he needs to feel some control over the situation in a way that is not negative but more comfortable. I have given him that comfort by making the decision I have.... I didn't make the decision to make him feel comfortable. It was an added bonus. One day I might ask him to be uncomfortable because I need to decide that I can not live with the compromise of not being able to express myself in a healthy way. I don't know. I might be just fine in what I have already, all will be revealed in time, when I have done my own work around some stuff.

It isn't so much what I did that is the issue here. It is that I did not act in a way that was in keeping with the boundaries we had set up from the beginning. I should of asked him to tell me again what he is okay with in terms of non-sexual, I have asked him to write it down now as a document for me to read and remember that way. It is more to do with my nature/way of being/own issues that get me into a position where sex comes up where friendship would of been just fine... I have a need to see if there is something more deep rooted behind that.

Mono has said that if I find I cannot step away from something developing with Leo that he will see how he feels and will step back from socializing with them (he and his wife). He will work on being close to me in other ways and see if anything changes. He is willing, it seems, to see if it is a temporary feeling to be disconnected. He is willing to take that chance that it might be. I am not.

I do not want a full on sexual, everyday, another partner relationship with Leo in the way that is thought. I want to see him once a month, be able to be close to him and not feel as if I am over stepping the boundaries I have with the others in my life. If that should turn sexual one day then I guess that would be a bridge that is crossed when we come to it.

I don't think it would be helpful in my life to take on another lover at this point... I have some deep rooted issues to work on around my own self love first. This is what I intend to work on and leave the Leo thing alone. At least until I have a better grasp on what is going on for me that I seem to need to have more people to be close to... I am not satisfied somehow and it has something to do with myself... not lack of love, sex, closeness or people to be so with... does that make sense. It doesn't entirely to me and it is a work in process...

I might be full of shit, I just don't know yet.. more exploring needs to be done and I am on it. It takes time and I intend to take time. All I can say is that there is something going on for me and I don't know what it is... it has nothing to do with Mono. He just brought it out of me by the situation we are in.
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  #56  
Old 02-10-2011, 12:57 AM
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Admittedly, part of this is because I cannot effectively deal with the reality of how intimate they were and would like to continue being.
This would be what I deem having only been noted for the benefit of acknowledging why the topic is being discussed at all. Is that correct?

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Essentially I would be stepping myself back into a more "secondary" role in order to deal with more openness for Redpepper. She would get something and I would get something. Compromise?
This does seem to be a compromise. A compromise isn't always THE compromise. Often times we have to work to find the best compromise, be considering many possible compromises.
(Were there others that were considered that might help in this discussion?)

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I have read of other posters on here who also want to be viewed as more secondary to cope with their partners other relationships. They too encounter resitance in the face of being asked to accept new relationships.
Yes, this was an issue between GG and I. I happen to KNOW you were part of that conversation. So I'm sure that it comes to mind as you consider this circumstance.
My frustration was a bit different in that I didn't have from him any explanation as to why he wanted to be "secondary" and for the life of me could not understand it. I interpreted it to mean that I was "secondary" to him-which was a daunting idea for me ESPECIALLY since he has no "other"... so I was secondary to WHAT?! That was very upsetting.
Also-I wanted him to understand that I didn't consider him "disposable" or "less important" or "less meaningful" to me. When he chose secondary status over primary status I feared that he was saying that he felt that was how I treated him therefore he was choosing that status.

I wonder if these fears might be the trigger for others who fight against and resist their partner wanting to back away? Obviously in our case it wasn't over "a new partner"-but it was still my auto-pilot reaction to be hurt, angry and pissed at what I percieved as his distance from me.

Also I wonder-what is it about being secondary that makes it easier to deal with the new relationship? For Maca it was opposite, he wanted proof of his "primariness" in order to feel secure about a "new relationship". But, that obviously isn't true for everyone.

Is it just the distance and not having to see the new relationship in action? Or is it something else?

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Is it "fair" to expect no change in current partner dynamics in light of the desire to change the dynamic by adding new ones?
Absolutely not. I don't even know how to expand on this one beyond what I said in the beginning

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Is it fair to ask existing partners to "not" change when they are themselves being asked to accept change?
It's not fair to ask existing partners not to change period. So again, no clue where to go with that one..

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If both people are getting some of what they want while still maintaining relationships that they both get something from...is that not feasible?
It is potentially feasible. It isn't necessarily feasible, but it is potentially feasible and it's certainly is more feasible than something that doesn't allow both parties to get some of what they need/want...

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Is that not what compromise is about?

This is my understanding of what compromise is about-it's so complicated finding compromises that work...
What are the parts to a "succeessful" compromise?
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:02 AM
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Valuable points. There is definitely a high degree of personal responsibility in taking certain paths. The tricky part seems to be in trying to predict anything with certainty without first experiencing the emotions and impact of travelling down that path. That is where the risk factor comes into play; I can say anything but when reality kicks in, what happens when compromise is put to the test? Thanks for the advice
Now there is another thought to consider.

This is something that I think gets forgotten about a lot. I know it does for me. What happens when we "agree" to something and then it doesn't work out?


Maca and I've been struggling with this one for a long time now, becuase I tried to be mono and failed (miserably). He can acknowledge having seen the effort I put in. But, he still feels like I lied to him because I agreed to the boundaries (marriage) and then I broke them.
Likewise-there have been boundaries we've agreed to in the last year (of poly) that he's broken...

Is it a lie to say that you've now realized you are unable to meet the terms of your previous agreement?
Obviously the cheating on my part was a lie.
But-if I'd come back and said, "I can't agree to the boundaries we agreed to for marriage, I need to renegotiate."
Would that have been acceptable?

When is it acceptable to come back and say, "I'm sorry, but I can't live by this agreement."...........
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:06 AM
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Hi, RP, I was looking forward to you showing up because I didn't like to be talking behind your back, so to speak.

However, your blog is support only and youll only get rainbows and group hugs over there. I asked you to start a thread where honest, perhaps tough, comments could be made, and at that time you refused. I wish you'd seek more engagement because I do identify with you to a large degree, and am bothered by your decision to be poly-fi if it's not in your true nature. That's almost the same as a poly person trying to be mono for their mono partner. IMO, of course.
I refused because I was afraid, hurt, in pain and not ready. I am ready now to hear what others say. Please feel free to say what you feel is best for me on my blog. This is Mono's thread. I would prefer to take thoughts about what I do elsewhere.

Please understand by my previous post that I am looking at all other options as to what is going on for me in my life first. I am looking at the "why" I feel I would like to have more with Leo rather than just pushing the issue. I feel disgust with myself that is deep rooted in something to do with my self worth and nothing to do with Mono. I have spent much time separating the two, me and Mono... and have decided that there is things for me to look at before taking Mono's compromise and seeing if it will work for me... his talk of his compromise is his own... nothing to do with me. Staying on the original topic would be great... everything else can be directed to my blog. I will paste these last couple of threads that I have written there to be discussed further.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:08 AM
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I don't think it would be helpful in my life to take on another lover at this point... I have some deep rooted issues to work on around my own self love first. This is what I intend to work on and leave the Leo thing alone. At least until I have a better grasp on what is going on for me that I seem to need to have more people to be close to... I am not satisfied somehow and it has something to do with myself... not lack of love, sex, closeness or people to be so with... does that make sense. It doesn't entirely to me and it is a work in process... I might be full of shit, I just don't know yet.. more exploring needs to be done and I am on it. It takes time and I intend to take time. All I can say is that there is something going on for me and I don't know what it is... it has nothing to do with Mono. He just brought it out of me by the situation we are in.
I think it's awesome that you are looking into yourself too RP. Your whole post was meaningful-but too long to repost.

I am wondering-within yourself-what is your feeling on what makes a reasonable compromise-not necessarily in looking at this example (which Mono posed to start the thread)-but taking his same questions, using any example in your life?

It seems to me that you have already been struggling to find a compromise regarding Leo-not pertinent to Mono-regarding Leo's life choices, your life choices and the feelings you two share...
I'm wondering if you struggle with the same type of questions in that (and any other) decision as Mono brought up in this thread?
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:59 AM
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This would be what I deem having only been noted for the benefit of acknowledging why the topic is being discussed at all. Is that correct?
You got it

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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
This does seem to be a compromise. A compromise isn't always THE compromise. Often times we have to work to find the best compromise, be considering many possible compromises.
(Were there others that were considered that might help in this discussion?)
I've been pondering how to achieve greater flexibility with our boundaries for as long as we have been together. I have yet to find any other solution that works for specifically. This is an ongoing internal debate for me and one I see no easy solution for. I would be taking a risk for sure but if it is one that needs to be taken to ensure Redpepper's health I would entertain it. The only other option I see is to reshape our relationship similar to the one she has with her ex-wife....but I don't want that. I have to protect my own emotional health as well though and our needs seem to cause damage to each other if fully embraced. Imagine if I said "I need you to be monogamous..as in one partner? We'd be fucked for sure...no if, ands, or buts.

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Yes, this was an issue between GG and I. I happen to KNOW you were part of that conversation. So I'm sure that it comes to mind as you consider this circumstance.
Yes, your situation as well as Dingedheart on here. (hope it's ok to use your name my friend)

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My frustration was a bit different in that I didn't have from him any explanation as to why he wanted to be "secondary" and for the life of me could not understand it. I interpreted it to mean that I was "secondary" to him-which was a daunting idea for me ESPECIALLY since he has no "other"... so I was secondary to WHAT?! That was very upsetting.
Also-I wanted him to understand that I didn't consider him "disposable" or "less important" or "less meaningful" to me. When he chose secondary status over primary status I feared that he was saying that he felt that was how I treated him therefore he was choosing that status.
When I say I would need to consider myself secondary it definitely does not imply Redpepper becomes secondary...there is no secondary in a monos heart...only primary. What it does do is creates a sense that the relationship is more casual than committed which in turn lowers the need to have love returned in the same way it is given - with exclusivity. It's a distortion of reality that does in fact indicate an inability to deal with reality. Yes...I said I would not be truly dealing with reality. Think medicated if you will...but if medication gets you through the day then so be it. As long as you are healthy in accepting that un-reality and everyone is more happy then sad I see this as possible. Do I think this is perfect? Not a chance, but what really is? Lots of people have no little or no interaction with metamours and aren't required to. Why would this be any different?

Back to the question...a little more anyways. By thinking of myself as secondary or casual, this also helps overide the natural desire to want exclusivity. RP and PN are seen as one to me. I'm weird..what can I say

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Also I wonder-what is it about being secondary that makes it easier to deal with the new relationship? For Maca it was opposite, he wanted proof of his "primariness" in order to feel secure about a "new relationship". But, that obviously isn't true for everyone.
Let's look at the idea of being primary for me....it isn't possible. Redpepper has a husband. I see marriage as sacred and that creates primacy in my mind. I don't envy that..I support it because their relationship allows me to embrace the nature of her other relationships with Derby and the one she has with Leo. If I was her primary I don't know that I would be so comfortable...although I do love our Derby girl in my own way


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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
Is it just the distance and not having to see the new relationship in action? Or is it something else?
It's avoiding reality...plain and simple. I would need to be distant from thoughts as well as seeing it in action. Maybe that would soften over time but maybe that would lead to a loss of connection...you only know if you try.
The sad thing is...Leo is truly someone I would trust with her heart. Yes, I would worry about the sexual activities of him and his wife and the impact that has on my own sexual activities. More numbers equals more risk and no one can tell me any different on that point.

Let's look at the external factors...and yes they play apart. I would struggle with Leo and Redpepper continuing at their current level of intimacy and if it was pushed farther than undoubtedly my struggle would increase. How do I look into the eyes of my family/close friends and say I am ok with a relationship when they can see that I am hurting? Well, I make lite of the level of commitment...keep it casual. I don't keep secrets and they have a tendency to ask the right questions. I won't lie because, again, they would see through it. I'm invulnerable to the judgement people have about my girlfriend being married because I embrace their relationship...I am not so tough with the idea of other men. Why? Because I don't embrace it. I would not be genuine in defending it.




Hope that helped a little LR.
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