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  #21  
Old 02-02-2011, 07:08 AM
Bricklie Bricklie is offline
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Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
Bricklie,

Of course, there is nothing new under the Sun, or the Moon. It has all been thought before, felt before, made before, sung before, and written before now.

But not by you, not before now.

And that, my dear fellow creature, is the beauty of this life. That we are destined to feel fresh in such old worn out ways is Magic.

Yes, I have that coffee feeling, too.

And also, you only get more visceral, not less.
Same song sung by different singers, I like what you're saying. I'm trying to appreciate solidarity of human heartache instead of dwelling only on the personally tricky bits. Being aloud to experience reality, especially when it involves love, that's enough compensation.
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  #22  
Old 02-02-2011, 09:19 AM
Charlie Charlie is offline
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Default Whereupon feeling...

Whereupon feeling for the first time the cold bitterness of grief, I looked around the graveyard, turning away from the platitudes at my great-grandmother's grave. The sweeping gaze of my weeping eyes was returned by cold surnames names symmetrically stamped on stone reliquaries used repeatedly to mark the dead and gone. So unrelenting were those losses, row by row, up the hill and then some.

I was thirteen, and well old enough to understand. The sadness would always be the same shared thing, forever, but mine was my own.

In the end, I cried just like everyone else.

No expression of love should ever be called cliche. Would we ever dare say that our grieving is so passe'?

My great-grandmother was one hundred and one years old when we laid her in the clay. I can still remember how it felt to kiss her old wrinkled cheek.

It was lovely.

Now, you go on and love brilliantly and make it your own.
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  #23  
Old 02-05-2011, 06:46 AM
EpsilonLyr EpsilonLyr is offline
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Default Aonther male point of view

Such incredible advice, opinions, and empathy from wiser and more experienced folk than you or I… I can’t imagine a better gift the internet has given us than places like this. Anyway, this man of yours seems to love you very much. My question: Does he also love the woman he’s lived with all this time? Did he know her when she was younger and continued to love her as she grew older? There is something about that relationship that drives him to still desire her, a woman physically less hot and young than you. That ‘something’ is proof that he can love you for more than your looks. From your post it appears you are a thoughtful, intelligent, and interesting person… all the more reason that his man’s love for you will endure and grow stronger even as you trade youth for maturity.
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  #24  
Old 02-05-2011, 09:06 AM
Laylah Laylah is offline
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well. I just hope that my husband and I find a lady that will love us both as time goes on... cause after all folks...... in the end.. all that matters is whats inside. The thought of someone sharing your life.. through all its stages... is to me the most loving thing anyone can do. It shows strength like no other.... love is neverending it lasts forever.

And when the time comes for one to cross over.... the love thats shared even in death goes on with the person for eternity. Thats what keeps us alive... in the hearts and memories of those we leave on this earth. And all that is held together by love through the ages.
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  #25  
Old 02-07-2011, 06:42 AM
Bricklie Bricklie is offline
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"Does he also love the woman he’s lived with all this time? Did he know her when she was younger and continued to love her as she grew older?"

(EpsilonLyr, thank you and I agree with you about the internet. I am very grateful for all the help; it's a huge boon. Internet means more human connections, and I think everyone here is on board with that!)

He's an extraordinarily loving human, very good to his lady. It's pretty domestic between them though; they take care of each other, six years softly negotiating the rough world together. If love is counted in patience and acceptance, I bet they score pretty highly. He says he's never stopped loving anyone, which I kind of understand. But I think love can morph, and sometimes it morphs into something unsustainable.

She's monogamous and I have a really hard time believing she's all that happy with the situation. I know that, unlike with other girlfriends he's had, she's not very comfortable with me, rather wants to keep this a--what do they call it?--V relationship. She and I are like night and day, Betty & Veronica sort of thing. Plus she's the face of my guilt, so I don't really want to go have a mani-pedi with her either.

I don't seem to be monogamous--still working it out. I'm not sure how open he is with her about us--hence the year-and-a-half-long restraint that makes me grind my teeth at night.

This is all just new to me and I can't put my finger on the line between permitted cheating and more than one true love. People fool themselves about their motivations sometimes. If he's just using polyamory to keep things spicy while she holds down the fort at home... well then he's the kind of man who won't hold my heart in good trust. See my emotional logic? Which is all silly because of the two of us, I'm the one more likely to betray or abandon. Working on that too.

The solution should be to talk things out with her, but I know her interest in that is low.
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  #26  
Old 02-07-2011, 09:01 AM
Bricklie Bricklie is offline
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Ha, thanks Yoxi. My family maintains that it's an Irish trait, to religiously laugh at your sorrows.

And to everyone with insight, interest and advice, thank you again. It's really a treat to have a sounding board with such depth.

Fella's no shallow fool, he's just a hu-man. I worry. Am doing my best to keep those worries bound by reason--they just slip out on their own sometimes. Tricky little things.

The point I was getting at, perhaps gracelessly, was that I'm--in traditional paradigm talk--the Other Woman. The Other Woman role includes insecurities about how legitimate you are, how he really feels. When the day is done, we seem to cause each other incalculable depths of rare and rolling joy. When the day is done he goes home to her. Going with that for now.
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  #27  
Old 02-07-2011, 09:30 AM
Bricklie Bricklie is offline
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Originally Posted by preciselove View Post
This is sounding good oh yeah baby....

If you're boring, insecure, demanding, unfunny, then you have things you can work on.
I'll have to redraft my entire personality. Damn.
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  #28  
Old 02-07-2011, 04:01 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricklie View Post
Proust said the best marriages have infidelity hovering over them like a threat. But with polyamory, it's not a threat, it's a promise.
No, with polyamory, it's not about infidelity. It's honest and open non-monogamy. Huge difference. Infidelity is about sneaking around, lying, violating agreed-upon boundaries, disloyalty, and untrustworthiness.
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Originally Posted by Bricklie View Post
I want him so much, I assume I can't have him, that something--anything--will get in the way.
But you do have him. Just not in the conventional sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricklie View Post
She's monogamous and I have a really hard time believing she's all that happy with the situation . . . Plus she's the face of my guilt . . . I'm not sure how open he is with her about us . . . I can't put my finger on the line between permitted cheating and more than one true love . . . The solution should be to talk things out with her, but I know her interest in that is low.
You have nothing to feel guilty about if everything is above board. It sounds like she knows about you, but perhaps not all the details (which is fine). Simply put, you are involved with a man who loves more than one woman. Again, it seems you don't quite see polyamory as much more than having permission to cheat, but I don't think it should feel that way. Perhaps this sense you have is an indication that some conversation with your guy is needed first, so you can get clear on how open and honest he is with her. Or, it could just be your insecurities and unsureness about the whole thing, which, in that case, could also ease up if you talk about it, but you might need to be careful not to make it a messy conversation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricklie View Post
The point I was getting at, perhaps gracelessly, was that I'm--in traditional paradigm talk--the Other Woman. The Other Woman role includes insecurities about how legitimate you are, how he really feels. When the day is done, we seem to cause each other incalculable depths of rare and rolling joy. When the day is done he goes home to her.
You are not the other woman; you are one woman involved with a man who has two in his life. Calling yourself the other woman really sounds degrading to me. Everything you express seems to show that you have not really resolved for yourself what the situation is, what polyamory is, and how it is different from cheating, affairs, infidelity. I think you need to let go of the wistful hoping that the situation was different. This is usually where people get tangled up in conflict -- we think things should be different from what they are.

In many cases, of course, we find ourselves in situations that need to change. However, the way to have what you want is to start by looking at where you are, without comparing it to what others have or what you think you should have. Just take stock of what you've got with this relationship, without giving credence to that dialogue in your head tell you it's wrong in some way. Then ask yourself if it's okay, or do you want more? Or something else? If so, then, sit with that for awhile, you may not need to act on it right away. But oftentimes, what we need comes from inside us, not outside.

To me, it sounds like you really have a good thing with perhaps the need for a little more communication to get clarity on some issues.
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/

Last edited by nycindie; 02-07-2011 at 04:03 PM.
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  #29  
Old 02-07-2011, 04:02 PM
preciselove preciselove is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricklie View Post
I'll have to redraft my entire personality. Damn.
Hey, you compare me at 23 to now, not many years later and I am completely different! Completely! But if you told 23yo me that I would say you're a fool. At every stage of your growth/development/psychosis/regression you'll have people that will be there saying things like "Yeah you're fine, you're good" even when perhaps you aren't. People will tell you pretty much whatever makes them feel comfortable "Hey don't want to upset you or hurt your feelings as then I may have to comfort you".

You can work on your personality and you're body to an extent. But as a woman you can only have kids in that 15-35 period with high success rates, and then that's it. Doesn't matter how much confidence you get, or how well you "flaunt it", your youth is gone. If you can use your assets to attract better mate(s) that will stick with you in the long term why not use them?

You must remember that the poly community is broad and has a higher distribution of people over 35yo than normal society. Why? Well it's easier to embrace polyamory once they've had all the children they want and natural jealousy declines.

So to break it down, embrace that hard 23yo body.... haha. Sounds like a porno sometimes on this forum....
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  #30  
Old 02-08-2011, 05:18 AM
EpsilonLyr EpsilonLyr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricklie View Post
This is all just new to me and I can't put my finger on the line between permitted cheating and more than one true love. People fool themselves about their motivations sometimes. If he's just using polyamory to keep things spicy while she holds down the fort at home... well then he's the kind of man who won't hold my heart in good trust. See my emotional logic? Which is all silly because of the two of us, I'm the one more likely to betray or abandon. Working on that too.

The solution should be to talk things out with her, but I know her interest in that is low.
It's totally understandable that you see yourself in a vulnerable position. Their relationship is solid. Now that they've created a solid bond, he has found you. Just like they had to adjust to each other and hash a lot out to become stronger, now they both have to adjust to you. But considering all of the challenges of two people in a relationship, adding a third must greatly intensify the complexity, though I wouldn't know from experience. With effort and patient on all sides, perhaps there will come a time when you can talk to her?

Anyway it's not some dramatic insight, I know. But I am so new to this as well and already I am seeing a lot of similar themes coming up. I read Sage's newest blog post today... "Are You the Meat and Potatoes or the Dessert" and it comes to mind. It relates to your situation, but from the opposite side of things. http://www.polyamorouspeople.com/
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