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  #11  
Old 01-28-2011, 04:58 PM
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ImaginaryIllusion ImaginaryIllusion is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post

I will pass on all the info so far to her. Thanks again. She has a ways to go... she is concerned that he is using young women as usual and can't seem to break away because she thinks she can do something about it... I told her that all she can do is be her out spoken old self and keep telling people her story... educate, educate, educate! She has a blog that she writes on. I don't know the site, but I will see if she will give it to me. She is really wanting to use his name there to warn the community, but I told her that just talking about it means that others will benefit. Her talking to me and others means that the word will get out and that she needs to just trust that people are on their own path and that she needs to be on hers and look after her best primary... herself.
Somehow as much as I'm not surprised to hear about this, it still leaves me speechless.

The behavior is completely unacceptable, and I don't know why we spend so much time playing nice instead of kicking the asses of those who need it. (Figuratively speaking mostly)
Particularly I doubt the value of getting the word out by round-about here-say leaving the abusive party to be identified by conjecture. It leaves too many possibilities in the short term for others to become involved with an abusive person without warning.

Just because we may have or are a primary, does not absolve us from taking care of our secondaries, metamores, friends, family, community, or even perfect strangers just by virtue of being fellow human beings. We may not have any control or say in the decisions they make in the end, but forewarned is forearmed...and they deserve to know what they may be getting into. Silence only helps perpetuate the cycle.

Must my opinion fwiw...which may not be much...and now I'll stop here since this is kind of thing is probably a trigger for me.
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  #12  
Old 01-28-2011, 05:51 PM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
thanks so much for the replies Fidelia and Bella.
It is my priviledge and my duty to help others find their way out of this valley, in honor of the wise and wonderful people who pointed the way out to me when I was walking through it.

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Ya, she has watched him hit on women so fiercely that they have had little voice in saying no...
Oh, yeah? Well a knee to the crotch might speak in a voice he can hear! Only "yes" means yes!

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
that and just crawling into their bed/space and expecting sex... then he would wonder why they would never talk to them again... most of them are young too. He is in his late 20's and they are 16 to 19... total manipulation.
Where I live, forcing sex on a person who is unable to consent (for instance, if they are sound asleep or unconscious) is RAPE, and sex with a minor (even with consent) is RAPE. If he is engaging in this behaviour, this guy is a RAPIST. He deserves incarceration. At the very least, he needs serious therapy, probably for a very long time. Not that he would ever seek help under the current circumstances, BECAUSE HE IS GETTING AWAY WITH IT. His behaviour is currently working for him; why would he change it? If he ever gets treatment, it will probably have to be court-ordered. But that's for the future. The young women involved need self-defense and assertiveness training. NOW.

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
He gets high on weed when ever he manages to get it... has girlfriends just to have a roof over his head and talks about how privileged others are for having a place to live and money. He is a musician. She was paying his rent from her disability cheque and he lived there for free.
This young woman is living with a RAPIST and paying for the priviledge! WTF! Worse than that, she's using public money to support him! Surely that can be an approved use of those funds. I hope she's not exposing herself to legal trouble, but that's another issue she needs to consider.

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If she asked him to pay he threatened to leave . .
Hey, there's the silver lining! That might be a quick and easy way to get him out. I would present him with a bill for past due bills, or at the very least tell him that his gravy train just pulled into the station, and he would be expected to pull his own weight from this point forward.

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She spent her savings on him.
I hope she gets some counseling or therapy to help her figure out why she has allowed herself to be so thoroughly used and abused by a man who is so obviously not worthy of a place in her life, much less her love, help and support.

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I will pass on all the info so far to her. Thanks again. She has a ways to go... she is concerned that he is using young women as usual and can't seem to break away because she thinks she can do something about it...
She CAN do something about it: SHE CAN SPEAK WITH A FIRM VOICE and say "NO MORE!" and "NEVER AGAIN!"

She can save herself . She can inform others. But she cannot change him. His problems are out of her league. He needs professional help.

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Originally Posted by ImaginaryIllusion View Post
... and now I'll stop here since this is kind of thing is probably a trigger for me.
BrotherMan, you keep speaking up. This kind of thing SHOULD be a trigger, for all of us. I am a rape survivor, and an abuse survivor, and you're damn straight this is a trigger for me. And I'll never stop speaking up about it.

Last edited by Fidelia; 01-28-2011 at 06:02 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2011, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Fidelia View Post

She CAN do something about it: SHE CAN SPEAK WITH A FIRM VOICE and say "NO MORE!" and "NEVER AGAIN!"

She can save herself . She can inform others. But she cannot change him. His problems are out of her league. He needs professional help.
Having been there once many years ago I can tell you that it isn't always as easy as just saying "NO MORE" "NEVER AGAIN". It honestly took him leaving me to get out of a relationship where I knew that I wasn't being treated well and that I wasn't happy in but such is the power that abusers hold over those they abuse. Once I was out I was able to say with conviction "I will never go back and I will never allow someone to treat me that way again".
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:18 PM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
that and just crawling into their bed/space and expecting sex... then he would wonder why they would never talk to them again... most of them are young too. He is in his late 20's and they are 16 to 19... total manipulation.
That is a matter for the police. Contact the police and they can gather statements from the women.
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2011, 08:06 PM
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Somegeezer Somegeezer is offline
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I have had it happen to me and been one to do it myself. =/ Unintentionally. I didn't realise that i was making them feel terrible. I wonder whether those who have been that way to me knew of their actions too. But I worked on myself from what I was told I had done. Stopped myself from being someone I didn't want to be.

Of course, not everyone has the strength they need to change themselves and need a lot of support. Some just refuse to see what they are doing and see no point in change. I'd say she really needs to tell him what he is doing, if she hasn't already. Tell him that it needs to end, but she'll be there to support him through it. If he refuses to accept it or if it still carries on, it's just not a relationship worth keeping.
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2011, 09:43 PM
bella123456 bella123456 is offline
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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Understood bella, thank you.
You're welcome

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Originally Posted by yoxi View Post
Just to add, I think compassion's not the same thing as tolerance (and it's not the same thing as pity or sentimentality or indifference either) - it's compassionate not to tolerate someone's behaviour if it's causing suffering for them and/or others. So being compassionate doesn't rule out giving someone a kick up the arse when they need it (without the need for hatred) - to my mind it's a very active and unsentimental quality, as it's a response to suffering.
I agree that compassion and tolerance are different. People that are in a cycle of abuse are generally in a pattern of rationalising the abuser's behaviour by studying why he/she is abusing. Is he/she tired ? stressed at work ? Had a bad day ? ....thinking that more understanding will equip one for the battle.

Initial conversations with someone who is being abused can sometimes work better if we take the abuser's feelings off the discussion table.

ie - we're not going to discuss his/her feelings and why this abuse may be happening, or what happened to him or her as a kid/is that contributing ?

In the mind of someone being abused these discussions can sound like further rationalising, which is why I mentioned it's not the time to show compassion for him. It's potentially the case that in this young woman's head, indications of compassion for the abuser could get mixed up in further rationalising. It can be useful to seperate the discussion, remove the talk of his feelings and just talk about his behaviour for the time being. He can deal with his feelings.
The fact that the abused woman is caught up in studying his feelings can be part of the problem - Because at a basic level, she's not rejecting his behaviour outright.
This can be the issue with showing compassion for him, at this point in time.

He needs to get into therapy, he can get compassion from his sources/family etc.

Last edited by bella123456; 01-28-2011 at 10:00 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:29 PM
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For sure, we're not in disagreement - I should have added that compassion isn't the same as 'giving support' either. Showing compassion for the abuser doesn't to my mind include doing so in any way at the abused's expense (since one is being compassionate towards them too) - when I wrote the above, I was thinking that the compassionate thing to do for an abuser is help their victim away from their influence, so that the abuser is thrown back on themselves and has to deal with what's making them abuse. That way, everyone benefits.
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  #18  
Old 01-29-2011, 01:34 AM
bella123456 bella123456 is offline
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I agree that we're not in disagreement..
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  #19  
Old 01-29-2011, 11:17 AM
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  #20  
Old 01-29-2011, 11:29 AM
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I don't know if this will help any.. but my own experience with this ended when I was finally pushed over my limit... I had for years said that if he hit me again, I would be gone.... but I never left... until I had reached my limit -

my limit was reached by refinding myself through new friends, and old - restoring my knowledge in myself that I deserved better... i had to KNOW it as a GUT REACTION...

and one night he hit me again - actually it was a long drawn out over 18 hours period of abuse that ended with me fleeing through a storm to a friend - hopefully your friend doesn't need this sort of a wake up call... just the fact she is looking for help is a good sign... now she just needs to get that GUT reaction happening...

she has to get past being indignant, surprised, shocked, she HAS to get to cold hard anger, to the "how dare you" the "fuck this shit" attitude

the very absolute best of luck to her... and to you Red in trying to help her...
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