Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Life stories and blogs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #691  
Old 01-25-2011, 05:40 PM
MonoVCPHG's Avatar
MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Redpepper's heart
Posts: 4,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
He feels more threatened by you having another male lover, than a female one. ?
Just to clarify, there is no sexual threat as in the idea of comparison. The only threat is to my connection towards Redpepper with regards to romantic involvement. Redpepper is allowed to have sex with anyone. There is no ownership in our relationship. Our compromises shape how our relationship works and how our love is expressed. We will be involved in each others life for a very long time regardless of what shape that takes in response to what we both need out of life

I own nothing...she gives me a gift and can withdraw that at anytime with my full understanding and support. Sex is important to me but it is not the be all and end all of loving, nor is it some inexcapable drive that makes me push myself into unhealthy territory to achieve. I'm above that.
__________________

Playing the Game of Life with Monopoly rules.
Monogamy might just be in my genes

Poly Events All Over
Reply With Quote
  #692  
Old 01-25-2011, 05:56 PM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,634
Default

Mags I love your really hard questions. I love being pushed. Your post is to long to comment on just yet. Busy day today for me. Just thought I would let you know my thoughts later. Thanks for the challenge!
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog

Last edited by redpepper; 01-26-2011 at 04:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #693  
Old 01-25-2011, 07:46 PM
MonoVCPHG's Avatar
MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Redpepper's heart
Posts: 4,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Am I correct in perceiving that he'd be OK with you having sex with another woman (not Derby, but yet another woman
This statement is pretty much correct accept that I am OK with Redpepper actually developing relationships with other women that include sex...not that I am OK with her having sex with any woman.

Me being ok with anything is ultimately irrelevant as she is an individual with free will.

I know it's hard to understand how I can handle my partner having sex with one gender and not another. Even this is a huge thing for me. I almost left my ex wife over her very brief and unconsecrated exploration with another woman.

There's no easy explanation other than it is a combination of preceiving female energy and intimacy as something much different than that of another male as well as an admitted turn off factor at the thought of RP with additional men. Whether this preception is shared by anyone else or thought to be incorrect is irrelevant to my reality. It is this preception that enables me to embrace these relationships and be healthy in them. They do affect me....it is not as though they just don't count or matter. I work at them.

If I had never become more than a boy-toy or was involved in a less comitted way, such as casual dating then I believe things could be different. I am hardly a boy-toy though and I doubt if we could continue to be intimate if I stepped back into a casual role. We've come too far to lessen our relationship simply to share the occasional fuck. We have sex with our hearts as well as our bodies.

It is again a very unique set of circumstance that had to occur for us to be a healthy partnership. The idea of non-monogamy is very far from my side of the scale; having a completely open relationship is off mine. Redpepper is the only woman I can ever imagine even having a non-monogamous relationship of any depth with. The bond we formed early on through exceptional vulnerability and trust is what has given me the strength to push past the idea of being in a non-monogamous relationship at all. This is it..first and last one..hopefully a very, very, very long one at that
__________________

Playing the Game of Life with Monopoly rules.
Monogamy might just be in my genes

Poly Events All Over

Last edited by MonoVCPHG; 01-25-2011 at 08:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #694  
Old 01-26-2011, 05:25 AM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,634
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Since I am genderqueer and pansexual (and maybe for other reasons having to do with patriarchal societies and customs making men the owner of women), I truly don't get where a male partner is OK with his female partner having female lovers, but not male ones.
I don't get it either. Probably for the same reasons... I get that women and men have different energy, but that is where my understanding ends. I was with women only for years... proves to me that they mean more to me than curiosity, but still it is seen that it is in some way different, that my love would be different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
I'm gathering that Mono doesn't want you to have sex with Leo for these reasons. He feels more threatened by you having another male lover, than a female one. Am I correct in perceiving that he'd be OK with you having sex with another woman (not Derby, but yet another woman), but not OK with you having sex with another man (besides your husband)? Is this why you haven't had sex with Leo?
That's right, he doesn't want me to have sex with Leo because he would be turned off so much that he would not ever be able to have sex with me again. I would of crossed a line that for him is so important he would have to end that part of my relationship, and just be friends... in essence, there would be a 180 turn. Its black and white for him. I have to chose Leo and others over him where men are concerned...or chose him.

It is not an ultimatum as I am free to decide when the time comes, and he will just carry on and be fine. To me it is an ultimatum, but, what can I say, to him it isn't.

I never said any of this is perfect... hence the reason we are always in a state of negotiating boundaries and we both compromise. Most of the time I compromise and am faced with a wall, but ask Mono and he would say the same thing.

Women are different. I am to understand that if I were to find a woman I am attracted to enough to be sexual with then that would be an option where he is concerned as it is different for him and he wouldn't be threatened. I think he would struggle if I went quickly into a sexual relationship however. As people usually do when a relationship is approached with haste into the bedroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Is this hampering your relationship with Leo?
Yes and no to the hampering. It is hampering, because I feel cut off from the depth I could have, it makes me feel sad and unwilling to continue sometimes because it is painful. I continue because I don't want to hurt Leo and because it sounds petty and because I am willing to see what happens with our friendship as a result. If Leo were to ever find someone to be sexual with in terms of a secondary I would have to end our friendship for a time as I think I would be near to devastated. If he went swinging again I would be too...

On the same token, Leo lives his life differently to me. He enjoys casual sex and we have fought/debated often about our differing values. I am not sure I could be with a boyfriend sexually who requires casual sex. I would feel that his flower is everyone's... and not special...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Because you say you are content with being his "trophy:" a good looking, well dressed woman he can show off to his friends. This sounds kinda off to me... Why is it OK with you, to be a trophy, admired just for your physical presence? It sounds a bit dehumanizing to me. Or, otoh, is it in line with your interest in burlesque performance, teasing others with your sexuality, since you aren't "allowed" to actually share it?
As to being a trophy? This kind of answers the question you asked about our relationship being hampered... Again, yes and no.

Yes, its all in line with my interest in burlesque and being a mistress. I seem to command a presence with him and others that seems to make people sit up and pay attention. I work hard at keeping that at bay most of the time and do my best to merge into the back ground... as a method to conserve energy and allow space to just witness others. I enjoy an outlet for the energy though in that I get to be a mistress. I decide what we do, where we eat, I have doors held open for me, and command that he pays attention to me when we are together... He fulfils that for me.

He is a Leo after all... Leo men often like women who are confident, independent and attractive/sexy in some way. he likes to be around them. He enjoys that about me as much as he enjoys my vulnerabilities. He is very protective of me and my emotional state... he knows that I am easily bruised and likes to take care that people don't take advantage of me...

I feel like a 50's hollywood star when I am with him. We both like old cars and old movies, perhaps that is why. I think I am like an admired confident starlet with a tender heart behind the scenes. Except when we camp that is... then we are dirty pigs together... all of us.

A whole other dynamic comes out when we camp where I feel totally vulnerable and myself in another way. I don't relate to him as much when we camp and pay more attention to my family. He to his.

I assure you I am not dehumanized. I really like teasing an audience of some kind. To me there is some classiness to that, some mystery, and intrigue. I don't feel the need to have sex with people just because I have teased them. There is something to be said for teasing and leaving men hanging...

They all know that I am teasing and can chose to be involved in that or not. He seems to like it. I have no doubt it is frustrating for him, but he has a wife to go home to and is quite firm that we don't need to have sex... apparently his sex life with her is incredible right now as a result of me being in his life. I am content with that... I love seeing him happy and having compersion for them both. I hear that he is out of his depression, taking less meds and is doing things he hasn't done in years... (building a fence). There is lots of positives to all this regardless of there being no actual sex... I am happy with that for the time.

I know it might seem bizarre. It is to me too. I often don't get what the hell is going on... which is why I write here. I need some sense of "normal" at this point and am working towards that... just as I have in every relationship dynamic I have been in.

Poly is fucked a lot of the time when I come across more ways to have relationships that are by my rules/boundaries and others involved. We aren't doing this mainstream poly style, but *meh* so what. As long as there is something gained, I will continue.

I likely will get my heart trampled on with this... I am really taking a huge risk in every direction.
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog

Last edited by redpepper; 01-26-2011 at 05:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #695  
Old 01-26-2011, 05:52 AM
bella123456 bella123456 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 180
Default

RP - You mentioned risk in your last sentence.

There's two types of risk...Human beings generally focus on "downside risk" to use a financial term. The risk that an investment will go down in value.

Our relationships are investments.

The other side of risk is called "upside risk" - Which is the extent to which the value of an investment may increase beyond forecasted levels.

I sometimes like to think about that...as we generally see "risk" as a negative. But we only take risk as there are opportunities for positive returns.

And it's not too much like playing the stock market ! But you do have control over who you invest in

best wishes..
Reply With Quote
  #696  
Old 01-26-2011, 04:09 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,271
Default

RP- just read your posting for to today and I had to go back to get some perspective on your nsbf Leo. When I read the situation of bedroom movie night I had a couple of questions. My first thought was who's idea was this?? Why torture the "mono guy" ? Why not do this at Leo's house or your poly husbands space? Was this an attempt to desensitize mono to the eventual consequence of dating Leo and or other men? Let say you decide to go forward sexually with Leo and Mono remained in his apartment could you be in your new room while he and some new love are giggling in the other room. Not to say he's a giggler, but ya get the drift. When you all discussed the moving in of Mono was this always something that he knew was going to happen? ie bedroom dates with guys. Do you and Leo talk about this boundary softening or coming down someday.... hey I'm working on him type of thing.
Reply With Quote
  #697  
Old 01-26-2011, 05:26 PM
Magdlyn's Avatar
Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Metro West Massachusetts
Posts: 3,623
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
This statement is pretty much correct except that I am OK with Redpepper actually developing relationships with other women that include sex...not that I am OK with her having sex with any woman.
Yes, yes, understood.

Quote:

Me being ok with anything is ultimately irrelevant as she is an individual with free will.

I know it's hard to understand how I can handle my partner having sex with one gender and not another. Even this is a huge thing for me. I almost left my ex wife over her very brief and unconsecrated exploration with another woman.
It is very hard for me to understand, and probably for RP. Lesbians come in so many flavors! Some are more masculine than many men. Some dress and wear their hair in a mannish style, have "male" mannerisms, etc. Some even "pack" (wear a certain toy in their pants that looks like a flaccid penis) daily, many use strap-ons for sex, etc. And even in their heads, they may not be feminine, and talk and act in a masculine fashion...

Otoh, some men are more effeminate, sensitive, are soft and vulnerable, nurturing, perhaps like to cross dress in the bedroom or wear women's panties daily under their male drag, and have other traditional feminine qualities, watch and cry at chick flicks, knit, sew, cook, love kids, enjoy housework and shopping, etc.

Quote:
There's no easy explanation other than it is a combination of perceiving female energy and intimacy as something much different than that of another male as well as an admitted turn off factor at the thought of RP with additional men. Whether this perception is shared by anyone else or thought to be incorrect is irrelevant to my reality. It is this perception that enables me to embrace these relationships and be healthy in them. They do affect me....it is not as though they just don't count or matter. I work at them.
Good. Glad you're working on it. Maybe you'll see things less black and white someday. This would be respectful to RP, I think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I... I have to chose Leo and others over him where men are concerned...or chose him.

...To me it is an ultimatum, but, what can I say, to him it isn't.

I never said any of this is perfect... hence the reason we are always in a state of negotiating boundaries and we both compromise. Most of the time I compromise and am faced with a wall, but ask Mono and he would say the same thing.

Women are different. I am to understand that if I were to find a woman I am attracted to enough to be sexual with then that would be an option where he is concerned as it is different for him and he wouldn't be threatened....
Yes and no to the hampering. It is hampering, because I feel cut off from the depth I could have, it makes me feel sad and unwilling to continue sometimes because it is painful.
I would imagine it would feel painful!

Quote:
I continue because I don't want to hurt Leo and because it sounds petty and because I am willing to see what happens with our friendship as a result. If Leo were to ever find someone to be sexual with in terms of a secondary I would have to end our friendship for a time as I think I would be near to devastated. If he went swinging again I would be too...
Complicated! He's a bf, you love each other in a way, Mono is OK with the love, but not the sex.

Quote:
As to being a trophy? This kind of answers the question you asked about our relationship being hampered... Again, yes and no.

Yes, its all in line with my interest in burlesque and being a mistress.
You mean Mistress, as in Domme, not mistress as in a mere lover/affair.

Quote:
I seem to command a presence with him and others that seems to make people sit up and pay attention. I work hard at keeping that at bay most of the time and do my best to merge into the back ground... as a method to conserve energy and allow space to just witness others. I enjoy an outlet for the energy though in that I get to be a mistress. I decide what we do, where we eat, I have doors held open for me, and command that he pays attention to me when we are together... He fulfills that for me.
OK. That helps explain why you bother to continue with this seemingly frustrating relationship.


Quote:

I assure you I am not dehumanized. I really like teasing an audience of some kind. To me there is some classiness to that, some mystery, and intrigue. I don't feel the need to have sex with people just because I have teased them. There is something to be said for teasing and leaving men hanging...
Haha, I do that online occasionally, but generally I follow thru to orgasms for both of us. For me, that's much more fun.

Quote:
They all know that I am teasing and can chose to be involved in that or not. He seems to like it. I have no doubt it is frustrating for him, but he has a wife to go home to and is quite firm that we don't need to have sex... apparently his sex life with her is incredible right now as a result of me being in his life. I am content with that...
Well, my gf hasn't had sex yet with her bf, and he and she both get "fluffed" by their chats and dates with each other, and then take it out on their primaries.... it's kinda weird to me but I guess that's part of being poly.

Quote:
I know it might seem bizarre. It is to me too...

I likely will get my heart trampled on with this... I am really taking a huge risk in every direction.
Best wishes!
__________________
Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37
Reply With Quote
  #698  
Old 01-26-2011, 05:31 PM
MonoVCPHG's Avatar
MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Redpepper's heart
Posts: 4,742
Default She did everything right

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
My first thought was who's idea was this?? Why torture the "mono guy" ? Why not do this at Leo's house or your poly husbands space?
We discussed this before he came over. I setup the movie and encouraged the movie night. We all camp together as friends and I needed to explore what type of ways I am comfortable with people being in my space, which surrounds her space, so to speak. I felt it was a gift as well I needed to see how it would be so I pushed myself. There was no torture involved accept that generated by my own mind and Redpepper was very conscientous of my feelings. She did everything right.

Redpepepr and I are extremely trustworthy and have control of our sexuality so the idea or excuse of "getting cought up in the moment" is not one we adhere to. We've both done it in the past and know what the ramifications are.

I want to give her as much as possible without giving so much that she loses my intimate connection. This visit encroached on that. Oddly enough, I'd have no problem with PN or Derby having sex in her room. Derby has been over and everything was great. I was hoping it would be like that for Leo too but their supressed attraction made it feel as though I was setting her up to create a situation that would interupt my connection to her.

Tonight they have a movie date upstairs in the main house. I'm cool with that. In fact I will be setting up the video equipment again
__________________

Playing the Game of Life with Monopoly rules.
Monogamy might just be in my genes

Poly Events All Over
Reply With Quote
  #699  
Old 01-26-2011, 07:13 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,271
Default

hi mono- so it may not have been your idea but, you in the spirit of gift giving wanted to see where your limits are/were. And when I said torture I was thinking of it as all self induced, I never thought she/they were intentionally trying to torture you. Its not hard to imagine how one's brain could start reeling ... with all kinds of thought ... it's to damn quiet, or the images of them all intwinded,... all in your head mind you, they were just watching a movie completely unaware of anything but the movie. You a better man than I, I'm thinking gift card or maybe a back rub, flowers, fondue pot.... they say people like those. Take care D
Reply With Quote
  #700  
Old 01-26-2011, 07:31 PM
MonoVCPHG's Avatar
MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Redpepper's heart
Posts: 4,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
I'm thinking gift card or maybe a back rub, flowers, fondue pot.... they say people like those. Take care D
I'll keep that in mind
__________________

Playing the Game of Life with Monopoly rules.
Monogamy might just be in my genes

Poly Events All Over
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bdsm, boundaries, breaking up, casual sex, children, coming out, coming out to family, communication, family, foundations, kids, ldr, ldrs, mono poly, mono poly dating nature, mono/poly, moving in, negotiations, poly-fi, poly-fidelous, redpepper, rules, swinging, third partner, vee

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:51 PM.