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  #31  
Old 01-14-2011, 10:53 PM
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My healthy relationships have started out on a friendship level. I'm pretty sure than when blinded by NRE I don't really see the whole person all that clearly and end up getting swept up into a relationship that isn't right for me. With friends you already know you like each other and you have something solid to build on. Rushing into becoming lovers before you know each other well is kind of a crap shoot as to whether it will last or not.
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  #32  
Old 01-14-2011, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Derbylicious View Post
Rushing into becoming lovers before you know each other well is kind of a crap shoot as to whether it will last or not.
Yeah, but is lasting the goal, or is quality the goal?
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  #33  
Old 01-14-2011, 10:59 PM
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Yeah, but is lasting the goal, or is quality the goal?
Well the ones that weren't built on friendship didn't have much in the way of quality. If in my experience I had a quality relationship that wasn't built on friendship I might think differently, it just hasn't been my experience though.
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  #34  
Old 01-14-2011, 11:22 PM
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Nycindie,

That very well could be because you don't have children. I'm NOT saying this with disrespect at all, I hope you sense that.
It's just that....
family can be whatever you want it to be, until you bring a child into it.
Because when child is brought into it-now it's a responsibility.

By my nature I'm an "open-door" person. I would let anyone in and see how it goes.
But, children get abused when exposed to situations that they aren't capable of protecting themselves in, it's a parents job to ensure that they aren't exposed to those dangers.

One horrifying example are the following statistics:

95% of victims (of sexual abuse) know their perpetrators
30% by relatives
60% by acquaintances, family friends, babysitters, neighbors
50% of sexual assaults occur in the child's home

The greatest risk comes from friends and family, not strangers. 93 percent of victims know their abusers: 34 percent are abused by family members; 59 percent are abused by someone trusted by the family.

Child abuse fatalities are widely recognized as being under-counted; it is estimated that between 60-85% of child fatalities due to maltreatment are not recorded as such on death certificates. Younger children are at a much higher risk for being killed, as are African Americans. Girls and boys, however, are killed at similar rates. Caregivers, and specifically mothers, are more likely to be the perpetrators of a child abuse fatality, than anyone else, including strangers, relatives, and non-relative caregivers. Family situations which place children at risk include moving, unemployment, having non-family members living in the household.

Children who experience child abuse & neglect are 59% more likely to be arrested as a juvenile, 28% more likely to be arrested as an adult, and 30% more likely to commit violent crime.



DON'T MISTAKE what I'm saying please-

I'm not saying that we should wander around paranoid.

But-if I don't know someone very well-I'm increasing the risk of my children being harmed.

it would be SO SO much easier if it were simply me, cause I would only be addressing the risk to me.
But when I chose to keep my children-I accepted the responsibility of considering the risk to them in who I bring around.

You know?
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  #35  
Old 01-14-2011, 11:25 PM
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Quality is definitely the goal for me.
One of the best relationships I ever had, remains a good memory for me today-and exists no longer as a friendship or lover relationship.

BUT-I have to admit, that if I'm caught up in NRE, I don't tend to have a clue if there is any quality beyond sexual fervor.
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  #36  
Old 01-15-2011, 12:00 AM
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LR, I understand everything you're saying and, of course, agree that having children is a major responsibility (which I never wanted and have always successfully avoided) that requires much more careful consideration about whom you bring into your home and into your world. I would feel the same way if I were a parent. However, I also get the sense from you that, even if you were not a parent, you would probably lean toward creating a close-knit family dynamic (with or without children in the mix) and it would be of tantamount importance to you. It just seems like that's what nourishes you.

Me, I'm a loner and been that way since pretty young. I enjoy close friendships, but don't ascribe special meaning to the word or concept of family. My own family (blood relatives) is pretty fucked up and dealing with them is usually a pain in the ass to me, but I never felt a need to create my own new and improved version of chosen family. I'd often rather be alone! And I like keeping things separate, and my sets of friends somewhat compartmentalized, so I can get away or express a different side of me with different people. As I keep learning about all the possible poly configurations, I could never see myself in a tribe or cohabiting with a group.

Now regarding friendships and lovers, one does not preclude the other in my life, but the usual route I have taken is lovers first, then friends. The few times it started as friends first, and then lovers, it backfired and the friendship fizzled and/or disappeared. So, for me, relationships that start as friendships usually don't move past that into physical intimacy.

A lot of this is how people view certain words and the meanings we attach to them. Now, I am seeing someone whom I view as a lover. We started out hot and heavy, had sex on the first date, and are getting to know each other little by little. I admire him, we have great chemistry, and the more I learn about him, the more I like him. He's very respectful and considerate, and I am crazy about him. I guess I could say that, for me, we are moving into friendship and getting to know each other while we are also physically involved. He views us as friends now, keeps calling what we have a friendship with sex. It seems very important to him to label us friends and not lovers or boyfriend and girlfriend. He seemed to get nervous when I called him my lover. I think he's afraid that any other label beside "friend" will demand more commitment or investment than he can give. However, he operates as if he is as invested as someone can be at this early stage, so who am I to argue with him about what he wants to call us? I am not worried about making it last forever, so I am staying focused on enjoying the here and now, and it feels really good. He can call me whatever he wants, and it could stay like this indefinitely, and I'd be happy. If it ended tomorrow, I'd be really sad and upset, but I'd be able to move on knowing he has already enriched my life, no matter what we call the relationship or each other.
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Last edited by nycindie; 01-15-2011 at 12:14 AM.
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  #37  
Old 01-15-2011, 12:29 AM
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[QUOTE=nycindie;60561]
Quote:
Me, I'm a loner and been that way since pretty young. I enjoy close friendships, but don't ascribe special meaning to the word or concept of family. My own family (blood relatives) is pretty fucked up and dealing with them is usually a pain in the ass to me, but I never felt a need to create my own new and improved version of chosen family. I'd often rather be alone! And I like keeping things separate, and my sets of friends somewhat compartmentalized, so I can get away or express a different side of me with different people.
This so reminds me of my brother. He's my... hmmmm, I don't have a word. He's not my "best friend", it's more than that, and it's not "brother" cause I have several and it's more than that too. He's like my other half. Yin/Yang sort of thing I guess.

Ironically, I tend to keep my sets of friends separate too by choice, but it's been harder with so many kids. It was easy when I only had one, becuase I had more time and freedom to get away. When it was just Spicy Pea and I, I had several very separate groups of friends who I socialized with, but never together.
That was much more natural for me. I also lived damn near to 50 miles from any of them and had no car, so much of my time was alone and I liked that too.
One of my biggest complaints is that I don't get enough time alone since I married. In fact, I make Maca nuts because I LONG for my own bedroom, all my own. Just so I can be ALONE and NO ONE can come in it without an express invite. Makes him nuts, just the idea of it.

Quote:
A lot of this is how people view certain words and the meanings we attach to them.
YES!! Yes it does!! The more Maca and I talk, the more clear it becomes that we've grown up with TOTALLY different definitions for the "Basic" words we use every day. That would be one of the primary reasons our relationship has been such a freaking roller coaster! We never ACTUALLY knew what the other is saying. We thought we did, but we didn't have the same meanings for the terms and so we weren't actually giving/receiving the message that was being passed.

Quote:
However, he operates as if he is as invested as someone can be at this early stage, so who am I to argue with him about what he wants to call us? I am not worried about making it last forever, so I am staying focused on enjoying the here and now, and it feels really good. He can call me whatever he wants, and it could stay like this indefinitely, and I'd be happy. If it ended tomorrow, I'd be really sad and upset, but I'd be able to move on knowing he has already enriched my life, no matter what we call the relationship or each other.
I understand. I am actually more that way when given my own devices. If it weren't for my responsibilities here, I'd be totally ok with a relationship along those lines (been there done that and still enjoy periodically seeing that hot guy walk through the store, sharing a smile and going our separate ways, cause it didn't last forever, but while it lasted, it was awesome).



I think we understand each other pretty well NyCindie. Just living different lives. That's a good thing in my mind.
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2011, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post
I think we understand each other pretty well NyCindie. Just living different lives. That's a good thing in my mind.
Yes, indeed!
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  #39  
Old 01-15-2011, 12:42 AM
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[QUOTE=LovingRadiance;60568]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
YES!! Yes it does!! The more Maca and I talk, the more clear it becomes that we've grown up with TOTALLY different definitions for the "Basic" words we use every day. That would be one of the primary reasons our relationship has been such a freaking roller coaster! We never ACTUALLY knew what the other is saying. We thought we did, but we didn't have the same meanings for the terms and so we weren't actually giving/receiving the message that was being passed.
Good to know it's not just me. I swear, I almost called my MIL and asked what snake oil salesmen sold them a dictionary when my husband was in school. I really wish it hadn't taken me 20 years to figure this out. I knew he had his own little language for phrases and esoteric stuff, but basic words, I feel like I'm teaching English to a non-native speaker.
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  #40  
Old 01-15-2011, 12:49 AM
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[QUOTE=SNeacail;60574]
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Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post

Good to know it's not just me. I swear, I almost called my MIL and asked what snake oil salesmen sold them a dictionary when my husband was in school. I really wish it hadn't taken me 20 years to figure this out. I knew he had his own little language for phrases and esoteric stuff, but basic words, I feel like I'm teaching English to a non-native speaker.
LMAO, I'm so there with you Sneacail. So with you!

I sometimes stare at Maca these days and OFTEN ask him, "what does that word mean when you use it?"
It helps a lot, at least I know what the FUCK he's saying. But it sure does take a LOT LONGER to get through what could be a short and simple conversation if it weren't for him speaking some f'd up form of English not transated into current dictionaries!

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