Guilt over boundaries

[Magdlyn]

I got really jealous when my ex got a gf 11 years ago. I was naive, even tho I read the Ethical Slut. I thought we were going to have a fun 3some, get together from time to time. It was supposed to be beneficial for me, since I am bi. Instead my ex and the woman fell in love and she wasn't interested in me sexually.

I got SO depressed. I didn't turn to booze, but I was so out of it, unable to function, my ex arranged couples therapy for us with a poly-friendly therapist.

We did couples counseling with her weekly for a year. I also did individual therapy for 3 years. I went on Zoloft for a year and it really helped me have the energy to deal with it all.

The funny thing was, I was always the one to get crushes on other people.

Ultimately, my ex and I separated (after a 30 year relationship/marriage) for various reasons... we grew apart. The woman he'd had as a secondary in 2000 moved in with him 6 months after we split.

[preciselove]

Firstly there is a distinct difference between a woman having female partners and male partners. Regardless of what some want to preach, there are physical differences and increased risks with male partners. If you want to beat this you first have to understand it might not be entirely "jealous" in nature.

Secondly there is something in men that makes them more jealous when women they are with are in reproductive age ranges. You will find most open marriages start when women are getting on in years (and hence can't or have difficulty conceiving), so the male is no longer afraid of raising another mans child as it can't happen. And there is a large segment of the poly community that follow this trend also. This is another difference between the male/females that is rarely raised. If a woman gets pregnant to another man, she HAS to do something about it, abort, adopt, raise it, etc. A man can just leave if he wants and have nothing to do with it (outside possibly paying for some of it). Stable poly relationships in where there are two or more males get around this issue simply by the fact that the men aren't likely to leave. Open poly relationships mostly have this issue.

You could tell your girlfriend you're fine with her having other men sexually after she has passed the reproductive years if she hasn't already, your jealousy should then be easier to control.

Thirdly if you aren't spending as much time with her as you would like, then her splitting up her time even more is hurtful to you. Which makes you question where you are in her priorities?

[Indigomontoya]

I can understand your guilt, and your pain.

When TP and I first opened up the relationship (and I use the term specifically because we had not moved to poly) her dates would gnaw at me horribly....the image of me sitting at home worrying was a reality, and when she first started dating Mr. A it was the same. I remember one evening I was physically sick from anxiety over it...the only thing that helped me get over the anxiety was understanding and communication; I had to communicate my anxiety, jealousy, etc. because without her knowing she would just proceed assuming I was fine.

Looking back, what helped most was reassurance from TP, and quite literally it would be a text message, a phone call saying "I love you, and I will come home if you need me to."

And that's my advice, figure out what you need to alleviate your anxiety and communicate that. As for your jealousy, I just had to push past it, she is with you and will come back to you, so you have to realize this...even if TP goes and stays over at Mr. A's place she will eventually come back to me physically and emotionally (plus all her stuff is here)...stop comparing yourself to him as well, you each bring something special to your girl....as TP had to point out to me many times before it sank in.

As for his depression, there's not much you can do about that, so stop feeling guilty over it. You didn't cause all of the depression, you don't need to solve all of it....ultimately you need to be slightly selfish initially to set out your needs and your requirements for this relationship to work.

[preciselove]

Originally Posted by Indigomontoya

As for your jealousy, I just had to push past it, she is with you and will come back to you, so you have to realize this...even if TP goes and stays over at Mr. A's place she will eventually come back to me physically and emotionally (plus all her stuff is here)...stop comparing yourself to him as well, you each bring something special to your girl....as TP had to point out to me many times before it sank in.

That's not always the case though, often relationships are ended because they find someone that is more compatible with them. Because they have a connection with you they may first broach the subject of "the 3 of us can live together" but sometimes they do not.

I guess it all comes down to how much faith you have in your relationship, and if you're willing to accept a new person living with you. On the plus side I think having that kind of "pressure" would also make you a better partner in some ways because you can't just settle into a "rut" as easily.

My first gf and I have basically grown together over a decade now, so we have that history and similarities such that her finding someone to replace me (or vice versa) would be very unlikely. That said anything is possible, "open polyamory" removes the security blanket because you're free to keep looking for new partners.

Part of the reason many marriages end is because while they may not be openly looking for new people after enough time they will randomly meet someone more compatible and start questioning their relationship - "Why isn't Joe more like Steve?" . Open polyamory is like this except you are putting yourself into the game over and over again, increasing chances of finding someone "better". However polyamory at least gives you the option of being together in a group which is a lot better than the monogamous path - the end of the relationship.

Some people are of the opinion that the best point of being poly is finding new people that are interesting and possibly more compatible with you. So people like myself in closed relationships aren't getting the benefits they are. And that is true to some extent, however they usually fail to factor in the "time" needed to do all that. I'd rather be putting time into existing relationships that work, family and hobbies than be constantly on the hunt for new or better people. Sometimes settling down and concentrating on the bird(s) in hand is more productive, if that's your kettle of fish.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by preciselove

Part of the reason many marriages end is because while they may not be openly looking for new people after enough time they will randomly meet someone more compatible and start questioning their relationship - "Why isn't Joe more like Steve?" . Open polyamory is like this except you are putting yourself into the game over and over again, increasing chances of finding someone "better". However polyamory at least gives you the option of being together in a group which is a lot better than the monogamous path - the end of the relationship.

I disagree that the "mono path" is the relationship ending, nor that meeting someone "better" is a major factor in mono relationships ending. Many times, situations like that can be an impetus for healing the relationship or marriage, because you see what's possible and start asking for it. Also - if, in a committed mono relationship, one meets someone else, compares them to their partner and is tempted to leave, there usually is trouble brewing in the relationship already. Another person didn't cause it.

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Also - if, in a committed mono relationship, one meets someone else, compares them to their partner and is tempted to leave, there usually is trouble brewing in the relationship already. Another person didn't cause it.

I thought I would add a little real life example of this. I'm not saying this is always the case but in my case NYcindie hit it right on the head.

When I had an affair it was never about finding a better person to connect too; it was about conciously/subconciously finding a person to connect to. I had lost my connection with my wife which provided the opportunity for another to form. There was no overlap, there was already a void waiting to be filled. I'm mono...when I am connected to someone that is it, the door is closed. Every new beginning starts with some other beginnings end (taken right out of a song and in that order....one ends before another can start).

For a truly poly person every new beginning has the potential to enhance and propel any previous beginnings....there doesn't have to be an end

[preciselove]

Originally Posted by nycindie

I disagree that the "mono path" is the relationship ending, nor that meeting someone "better" is a major factor in mono relationships ending. Many times, situations like that can be an impetus for healing the relationship or marriage, because you see what's possible and start asking for it. Also - if, in a committed mono relationship, one meets someone else, compares them to their partner and is tempted to leave, there usually is trouble brewing in the relationship already. Another person didn't cause it.

Seeing that the average relationship lasts about ~7 months (at least from a few different sites I found) and marriage around ~7 years, why are all these mono relationships ending ? I know there is no "one answer" but a common thing you will find is someone "struggling" who finds a catalyst to break up when they meet someone new.

It seems very common that when a relationship ends at least one of the two people hopstep into another relationship almost immediately. The reason this occurs is because people generally don't like being alone and prefer to wait until they have alternatives before making large decisions. Humans generally prefer to be in poor relationships over being in no relationship.

[nycindie]

First of all, just because a relationship ends does not mean it wasn't a success. Not every relationship is meant to last forever.

Second of all, one can't really generalize that mono people jump right into something new. That is actually the opposite of the general mindset I see, which is you need to give yourself a certain time to heal before starting over with someone else. I mean, there are even formulas out there for figuring out how long to wait! I started dating again not quite six months after my ex moved out, and am still self-conscious about how soon that was. Most people do react as if I shouldn't be dating yet, when I say how fresh my breakup is, so I don't know what you base your theories on. Maybe it's a regional or cultural thing. It's obvious that you feel poly is better than mono, but perhaps it might be more accurate to say it's better for you.

[preciselove]

Originally Posted by nycindie

First of all, just because a relationship ends does not mean it wasn't a success. Not every relationship is meant to last forever.

I think you'll find most people in the monogamy world go into most relationships hoping it will be "one that lasts forever". I'm not sure what the culture is where you are at but besides people who are "bachelors for life" everyone I know that is mono is like this. It is also the image portrayed in TV and hollywood. I believe it is the norm.

Originally Posted by nycindie

Second of all, one can't really generalize that mono people jump right into something new. That is actually the opposite of the general mindset I see, which is you need to give yourself a certain time to heal before starting over with someone else. I mean, there are even formulas out there for figuring out how long to wait! I started dating again not quite six months after my ex moved out, and am still self-conscious about how soon that was. Most people do react as if I shouldn't be dating yet, when I say how fresh my breakup is, so I don't know what you base your theories on. Maybe it's a regional or cultural thing.

Length of relationship might have some impact on how long some people wait. Has your ex moved on already? Most people in or associated with the poly community are far from normal (in what I believe is a good way) and hence our personal experiences shouldn't be included in any generalization I feel.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by preciselove

I think you'll find most people in the monogamy world go into most relationships hoping it will be "one that lasts forever".

Well, shit yeah, but that rarely happens. I didn't say no one hopes for it, just that lots of relationships are obviously not meant to last forever; otherwise, they would. My point was that the end of a relationship doesn't mean it failed, only that it ended. And relationships end for various and sundry reasons. It isn't "usually" due to one of the people having found someone else, and that caused it to end, which is what you were saying earlier in the thread.

Length of relationship might have some impact on how long some people wait.

Yeah, that's one of those formulas I mentioned.

Most people in or associated with the poly community are far from normal (in what I believe is a good way) and hence our personal experiences shouldn't be included in any generalization I feel.

I don't know what you mean here. I am new to poly and only basing what I say on my lifelong experience as a mono person. And my point is you can't really generalize, anyway, but your conclusions seem really off to me.