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  #11  
Old 01-02-2011, 04:52 AM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Originally Posted by MindfulAgony View Post
...take it slowly and relax about the whole thing. Try to enjoy the connections you make - maintain your integrity -and recognize that they will more likely than not fail to advance very far.
I agree with this. I don't know where you are looking, but where ever it is, its not working. So change it. You aren't looking in the right place it seems.

I would suggest going to a local poly meet, or start one up. Make friends with like minded people and find out who you get along with... see what develops out of that.

It sounds like you are looking for a secondary, but one that you will love less and be available to less emotionally, and who will be less than your wife. I would find that really uninteresting as it kind of says to me that I am not worthy of the same amount of love and attention as someone else in your life. At least that is what it sounds like... Is that the case? To be honest, I wouldn't be interested either. Why would anyone want to invest in that? Unless they were cheating and just want sex. Perhaps its your approach?

I get that you love your wife and want to be firm that that will not change and the course of action you have planned with her is set, but it almost seems too firm. Have you done any reading about secondaries? Have you read the secondaries bill of rights? http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1915 It might be helpful to be empathetic and discover what it might be like to date a man like you. What can you offer a woman in the situation you are in? What reason would she have to date you when she can date someone who wants to create a family with her? If you are not willing to create some of what she needs in life, then what would be the point?

I'm hoping I don't come across as snarky as that isn't my intent... I am hoping that this kind of way of looking at it might help you find a way to someone that suits your situation and lifestyle choice.

I was the secondary of a man and his girlfriend once. We had a great time until the relationship naturally came to a point where there could be more depth and connection if we communicated and moved forward. He laughed at me essentially and told me that what we had was just fun and not worth more. He was actually pissed off that I was requesting more. I was heart broken. Obviously we had not the same intentions of where we were going when we started out. I know now to always ask what kind of philosophy a person has about relationships and what they are looking for so as to not go there if we aren't on the same wavelength. I'm saying this because I think that just by being honest and standing firm on your convictions you will eventually find someone that admires that and is willing to give what you have to offer a try.

Here is a thread that might help
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2927
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Last edited by redpepper; 01-02-2011 at 05:09 AM.
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  #12  
Old 01-02-2011, 07:15 AM
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I think you already realise what it is about. People feel like marriage means more than it really does. Maybe they see it as they will always be the lesser person in the relationship maybe? Maybe they see themselves married one day and because of polygamy laws, they realise they will never have that dream.

I personally feel marriage is overrated, though I do understand a lot of people feel it is important to have.
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  #13  
Old 01-02-2011, 04:22 PM
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Andy4700 Andy4700 is offline
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Thanks for the input everyone. I do appreciate it.

Mindfulagony - I like your line about trying to enjoy the connections I make. I was pondering this lastnight in a way. In reality, I haven't been looking that long. And in that time I have made a handful of connections. None are what I want or even close to it yet, but I have met some new people via the internet anyway.


NYcindie- I understand its got to be a bit awkward dating a man with a wife.. but it would be sorta the same with a g/f... any other lover is going to be intimidating to a degree until the potential g/f gets to know me and maybe my wife as well and sees that shes truly okay with things and not going to go physico on us/her. As far as being equal goes.. I will elaborate on that in a moment.

Your other idea on meeting people are interesting.... never heard that said, but it does make sense.... I am not sure how I would make a poly connection in a unrelated group. I don't know if I am bold enough to just come right out and ask a woman if she would be interested in dating me even though I am married. :/

RP- I've been keeping my ear to the ground for any local poly groups. I found a dead yahoo poly group for my city, but there don't seem to be any members active or local. There are some about 2 hours away in the Minneapolis area. Problem is I never get up that way and I am not real up for dating someone that lives there. I want someone I can see in person without 4 hours in a car. Spending enough time with a poly group there, to get comfortable with with the people in it is more in time and gas money then I have.

Starting something local would be cool. If I could meet some other poly people here maybe we could. I found 2 (a couple) on OKC and said hello to both in hopes that we could share ideas and maybe they knew of some resources. Neither replied. I will certainly keep looking.

Your assumptions are correct... too a degree. Whom ever I find needs to know that my wife and I are stable and she can't get ideas about taking her place. This is part of why I think I need to be honest about being married. I am not just looking to date until I find someone better, then latch onto her and move on.

As far as her being loved less, or me being less attached to her... I am not sure I can agree 100%. I don't like superlatives and comparatives when it comes to love, relationships and people. You said something in another post a few weeks ago I really liked. To quote from memory, you said something to the effect that love is fluid, and sometimes you are more in love with the fall colors on the trees then with either of your partners. This is true for me. I always care about the people I am close to, but as far as that "in love" feeling, it really depends on the moment where it is stronger. The secondary would be a lesser part of my life, as the term secondary would imply, but it doesn't mean I would love her less when we were together and in eachothers company.

I think a secondary relationship could offer a lot for everyone involved. Primaries too.
One of the things about marriage is I married my wife because we share some of the very key qualities that will likely mean we will stay married. The same ideas on where we want to live, how we spend money, raising children, religion, etc.
She lacks other qualities I crave. That is life. No one can be 100% perfect. We have to compromise.

So lets say that I meet a g/f that shares my love of intelligent conversation, my tastes in music, can relate to my complicated emotional side, can take my satire and sarcasm and dish it right back, has a different body type or sense of style that I dig. That would be awesome. Even if it doesn't last forever, just having some time to experience that with someone would feel great. It would mean I could more easily focus on the things that are perfect about my wife, and forget we don't share this or that, because I get to share that with this other girl that is close to my heart, and don't have to care that she wants to move to the other side of the world someday and spends all her money on a whim and whatever else she does that would drive me nuts in a one on one relationship. I can gloss over the bad and just enjoy what I love about her. She gets to do the same with me, gets to enjoy a close emotional bond, gets to know I care about her, love her and appreciate her for who she is and am not in it to try and "own" her or just have sex with her. The Primaries get pressure taken off them to be something they can't or don't want to be know their partner is happy, get to enjoy the NRE, ect.

I know in the real world things don't always go real smooth, but in just using reasonable logic, it does make sense in my head at least.

I am rambling on and on... lol Poly comes in so many forms. Mine is maybe "softcore poly" I am just looking to be able to love and move forward with and develop something fun and feel good. Not really looking for anything close to forever, me+you+her kinda thing. I've made so many great female friends in my life that hold me at arms length. I do understand mostly, but would really like to meet one that doesn't, and lets things go further.

Anyway, thanks for the input redpepper. No, you're not snarky. I like you and respect you and your input.

-Andy
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  #14  
Old 01-02-2011, 05:49 PM
Olderwoman Olderwoman is offline
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Thanks Andy! I enjoyed your "rambling!" It cleared some things up in my mind about marriage and polyamory.
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  #15  
Old 01-03-2011, 01:04 AM
meyesekrit meyesekrit is offline
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Default Marriage makes a difference....

Hello all,

First time poster, but I so enjoy the feeling of support this site offers, I wanted to weigh in.

While I consider myself new to poly (in an open marriage to mono husband) I find that it's not just women who have that reaction. My OSO and I have been seeing each other for just over 5 months. I have been (and would always be) completely open and honest about being married. And my OSO has very firm ideals that my marriage must always come first. He is divorced and says he couldn't handle being the cause of putting another couple through that experience.

While he is willing to pursue a relationship with me, unlike the women who are not willing to even try, E (OSO) has told me straight out he won't "allow himself" to love me. Says it's a a reasonable self protection stance. Perhaps feel like the marriage will always mean they will be hurt eventually.

Personally, his reticence is hurting me. I can see he cares - it's there in so many ways as we deepen our relationship - but I don't know that I will ever hear it. And being new to poly and the one who "has the best of both worlds (husband and lover)" I wonder if it really is unfair of me to want to push his objections aside.

Any others faced his reaction?
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  #16  
Old 01-03-2011, 01:18 AM
Olderwoman Olderwoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meyesekrit View Post
Hello all,

First time poster, but I so enjoy the feeling of support this site offers, I wanted to weigh in.

While I consider myself new to poly (in an open marriage to mono husband) I find that it's not just women who have that reaction. My OSO and I have been seeing each other for just over 5 months. I have been (and would always be) completely open and honest about being married. And my OSO has very firm ideals that my marriage must always come first. He is divorced and says he couldn't handle being the cause of putting another couple through that experience.

While he is willing to pursue a relationship with me, unlike the women who are not willing to even try, E (OSO) has told me straight out he won't "allow himself" to love me. Says it's a a reasonable self protection stance. Perhaps feel like the marriage will always mean they will be hurt eventually.

Personally, his reticence is hurting me. I can see he cares - it's there in so many ways as we deepen our relationship - but I don't know that I will ever hear it. And being new to poly and the one who "has the best of both worlds (husband and lover)" I wonder if it really is unfair of me to want to push his objections aside.

Any others faced his reaction?
The word "love" to some people has a lot of baggage attached to it. In relationships it could mean monogamy, or ownership, or commitment. He will love you, but he does not want to love you in such a way to want to break up your marriage and take possession of you. I would let him handle the relationship in the way that works best for him, withholding that kind of possessive love that society expects of us. Yes, I think it is unfair of you to ask or want him to profess his un-dieing love for you. That might go beyond his comfort zone and it could cause problems. That's just my opinion on the matter.

Last edited by Olderwoman; 01-03-2011 at 01:21 AM.
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  #17  
Old 01-03-2011, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by NeonKaos View Post
i think that most women are in the "monogamous" or "primary" mindset and THEY want to be the wife. A lot women of that age are starting to think about finding someone to marry and buy a house and have kids with, so of course getting involved with a married man who has no intention of leaving his wife would be a big turn-off, I would have to imagine. You have to accept that your dating pool is going to be DRASTICALLY diminished than if you were single looking for a monogamous relationship with the possibility of marriage.
Mark it on a calander, I'm about to agree with NK.

She's right. I'm finding much the same issue with men. Men my age are looking for toys, or a wife. There aren't many out there willing to "settle" for being the SO and not the spouse. They do exist, it's just hard to find.
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2011, 07:38 PM
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Really, really interesting post.

I can completely empathize and sympathize with you. Having faced much of the same derailing....women just don't want to share...I have not faced really any severe aversions to married versus a committed relationship but that's not to say that even the committed relationship aspect of the conversation ends up a deal breaker.

Ultimately it comes down to finding some who can see marriage as a committed relationship that is on the next level.

I cannot give insight into the women who reject us and their mindset other than what I have been told and it comes down to married or just in a committed relationship the reasons are the same.

As for your SO feeling like it's her fault, you'd have to ask TP about that. She has expressed to me that it's not me that they are rejecting but her.
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  #19  
Old 01-03-2011, 08:07 PM
Olderwoman Olderwoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indigomontoya View Post
....women just don't want to share...

Now there's a generalization.

How about this one...

...men just don't want to share....
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  #20  
Old 01-03-2011, 08:11 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olderwoman View Post
Now there's a generalization.

How about this one...

...men just don't want to share....
It has been our experience that women our age (mid to late 20s) have flat out told us that they "couldn't share."
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