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  #21  
Old 10-31-2010, 06:11 AM
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ray ray is offline
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Wow, that's a lot to take in eklctc. Hopefully some sleep will be beneficial. It's hard when people hide stuff and I guess it's good that it comes out but it can be pretty difficult. For the longest time there have been things I've been wanting to say but couldn't and this morning we finally had that conversation. I feel relieved. Among other things. But it was a really rough conversation. I wonder if triads are easier to form when there is no established couples. Darn those couples and their established communication patterns. It's like it's own culture. I hope that you can find some clarity about the future possibilities of the relationship. I know i'm having a hard time with the inconsistency of desires/possibilties/structures of everyone. I hope you can find an answer that makes you happy.
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  #22  
Old 10-31-2010, 01:18 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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All I have to say is that when the baby comes, things will be OMG DIFFERENT. If you think you're in a "secondary" position/role NOW, don't expect to be up-graded when the baby comes.

I know it's easy for me to say from where I sit, but I think you should let them go and do their baby-thing together and cut your losses and find someone(s) who are able to give you what YOU need out of a relationship. I'm probably gonna get shot down for saying this: I don't think you will find what you say you want by "joining" an existing couple (unless it's a couple that is very experienced with having a "third" AND is adept in dealing with the issues that come up in such a situation).

THis whole thing with couples and "thirds" freaks me out a bit because it seems that often the couple is viewed by themselves AND the prospective "third" as "one unit", when they are NOT, no matter how you try. They are TWO PEOPLE with TWO SEPARATE sets of needs, TWO SEPARATE personalities, TWO SEPARATE sets of expectations, etc., and nothing anyone can say or do will change that.
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  #23  
Old 10-31-2010, 01:27 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklctc View Post
..............So I have managed to have my discussion with my partners and a very interesting and vital revelation has come out of it. While my male partner understood and agree with me on my viewpoints and acknowledged they were things he needed to work on, my female partner told me that she was not as physically attracted to me as, she believes, I am to her and could probably take or leave the relationship because her focus is on personal goals (which is understandable). She basically stated that she would be interested in continuing to hang out with me and being friends but she does not desire the sexual aspect of the relationship.

I'm glad that information came out, though, I am upset to find out that (1) both partners have kept this knowledge hidden from me, (2) my female partner has basically subjected herself to interactions that she really didn't want with me, and (3) we really are not working towards what was originally discussed and I'm the last one to find out.
Hey Ekl,

Ok............no surprises here for me.
Why ?
Because this is probably one of the most common....'difficulties' ....surrounding potential triads, quads, whatever.
It's hard enough for two people to connect on various levels (sexual, emotional, philosophical, political...whatever) - it's even more difficult to get 3 on this same level. And where this leads to problems and disillusionment is when it's set up from day one as "the goal". Once you frame it that way it can close up your mind towards other possibilities. It can become an all or nothing thing. Result..........nothing.
Because it's quite unrealistic given human nature.

Now, don't take it personal that she is not as attracted physically to you as maybe he is. That's more human nature. It doesn't mean she doesn't care for you on a number of different planes. But sexually, you're not connecting. That's fine. Matter of fact it's pretty common. I bet you know all sorts of people you either do-or could- care a lot about, but don't feel the sexual chemistry. Or maybe you respect them - and care about them - but have various philosophical differences. That's fine !

Assuming she cares enough about you to allow you and he to continue along and explore the depth, I say go for it. And just keep in mind her role, be kind & respectful and try to meld with both on other levels. It really can work fine !

Is that your "ideal" situation ? Seems not. But things are seldom ideal. So we learn to make the best we can all the while keeping an eye open for situations that may be closer - or an alternative to - that "ideal". It's just how it is.

Make lemonade

GS
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  #24  
Old 10-31-2010, 02:06 PM
eklctc eklctc is offline
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@Ray- I'm glad you managed to have your conversation and it didn't completely change your stance in your current relationship. Mine is a different story. I already knew that there was something going on with her but no one had shared anything with me and continued to do and say other things that followed the original expectations. However, the mixed signals is what brought me to this point. It seems like you and your partners are still at least in it together.
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  #25  
Old 10-31-2010, 02:18 PM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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I'm pretty much with Neon Kaos. Keep your options wide open because a baby will change a lot. Consider the possible mindset of a new mother; body has changed,possibly feeling less attractive, more possessive of the co_provider for the child, resentment at being the babysitterwhile her husband enjoys fun and sex with his girlfriend. Based on her attitude towards you I'd say she is already sending a message that this is more about what he wants for sure. Protect your heart my friend. And , as always I could be completely full of shit
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  #26  
Old 10-31-2010, 02:20 PM
eklctc eklctc is offline
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@Neon- I do realize things would be different once the baby was introduced; however, with all three of us involved in the relationship and me already being a mother, it seemed that we could work through that fine and build as a family. Prior to this point, she had already been pregnant and we all bonded well through that period but she loss that baby. Now there is no pregnancy but they are actively trying (which I think is still not the best time because of other stresses she is dealing with but that was not asked of me). However, it took them forever to conceive the child she lost (due to schedules, physical/emotional stresses) so, since the circumstances haven't changed in that aspect, I believe it is something that won't happen immediately. That's just my untrained analysis though.

You may be right, Neon, about seeking non-attached people for a multipartner relationship. I know there are people out there, already coupled, who do operate more individually and can really embrace an additional partner in the way I seek (an exe and I were really good at this) but I also believe they are few and far in between. Additionally, I've lived in Denver almost two years as of next month and, in those two years, my couple (who I met in June) are the only compatible relationship prospects I have had.

I totally agree with you regarding couples still being individual people. I have had to tell my male partner that twice in this relationship because he tended to divert to what 'we' think or 'I think we should not go into anymore detail until we can involve her'. Mind you, I have always equally inquired and discussed things with both of them but I realize that they both have their own viewpoints and then they have their viewpoint and I was interested in both. :\
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  #27  
Old 10-31-2010, 02:58 PM
eklctc eklctc is offline
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@GS- At this point, I can't help but take it personally that she is not physically attracted to me (even though, what she said was, she wasn't as physically attracted to me as I was to her-whatever the fuck that means). I take it personally because he/she/both, I feel, have lead me on. She has been sexual with me, solo, knowing she really didn't want to. She has participated with us together knowing she really didn't want to have sex with me. She has consistently made comments to support her attraction to me knowing it was not the truth.

Another thing that has gotten under my skin is...what has she based her statement me being more physically attracted to her on? What has been her measure in coming to that conclusion because, whatever the case, she would be wrong. Solely based on physical attraction, she would not be my pick. However, I view people from the inside out. She has many traits that I admire and she and I have many of the same characteristics. The beauty I find within her fuels the attraction without. Plus, when I got to the point to where I allowed myself to be completely emotionally open to them, my inward attraction increased more adding to my outward attraction.

Her statement, for me, also implies that she doesn't have and never opened herself up to connecting with me emotionally, though, that is not what her mouth said in the relationship. I mean, maybe I just operate differently, but I can be attracted to someone for various reasons. When it comes to someone I am looking for something more with, their physical attractiveness doesn't play a big role in my decision because that is an attribute that can change if one only has the desire to do so. I have to be attracted to someone facially but, on a deeper level, the lack of total physical attraction would not deter me if there are other aspects of the person I am attracted to.

And...this is kind of shallow...but we have met up over the last two weekends with a couple that they have been swinging with, sporadically, for 5-6 years now. I don't mean to judge but it raises a point for me...the woman of the couple is a pretty woman but not physically appealing yet my female partner doesn't have an issue with having sex with her. My male partner voiced that he was not physically attracted to the woman but she had other attributes that he like, thereby, allowing him to interact with her sexually. That point just makes me wonder if my female partner has been completely forthcoming about her stance.

During our discussion, my female partner did say that she didn't know what to tell me. She didn't know if I should look for something that would fulfill my needs better or if the male partner and I should continue without her. My male partner expressed that he loves me and he doesn't want it to end but he knows I do not desire a secondary role nor a far-spread 'V' poly relationship. Then we kind of reflected on the things we wanted in the future like my moving into the house in 2012 or this all-inclusive emotionally bond we wanted, etc. My male partner and I also ponder, with the change, what would the future look like... because I can not totally invest myself emotionally in him when I know he cannot provide the same level of emotional interaction; since we are not all together, how long will the female partner be okay with our in-depth, individual relationship at the current level and building or, if she finds other people more to her liking to introduce into the relationship, will she want our relationship to end so that they can have the all-inclusive relationship under one roof...

Another issue that I have to deal with internally is my detachment. I am very good at completely shutting off my emotional/physical interaction with people when I have decided I have reached my threshold in that situation and, also, when I feel they have hurt/betrayed me. As I told my partners last night, with the revelation, the detachment from my female partner had already began. I allowed myself to open up and become vulnerable to her and she intentionally hid an important aspect of our relationship from me. That hurts and it's hard for me to take that lightly. Now, it makes me question what else has been kept from me and what, that has been shared, is genuine. So, that equals hurt and doubt. With that said, my desire to build a relationship with the female partner, on any level, will quickly become non-existent which, as I mentioned to them last night, concerns me because I don't know how that will affect my male partner.

Thanks for your feedback. I'm all too familiar with life's circumstances so I'll definitely continue to move forward and attempt to find a happy medium in the meantime.
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  #28  
Old 10-31-2010, 03:01 PM
eklctc eklctc is offline
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@MonoV- lol...you are funny. I provided detailed information about the whole situation regarding a baby in my response to Neon that you can refer to. I am well aware of those possibilities. It was actually a concern that I brought up to both of them during the first pregnancy. I know the dynamics will be completely different now that she and I are not involved so that is another major decision crossroads that I will have to prepare for when there is another baby in the picture.
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  #29  
Old 10-31-2010, 03:52 PM
eklctc eklctc is offline
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@Neon- lol...thanks for your response. Unfortunately, I've never experienced a relationship strain during my successful pregnancies or after the addition so, no, I can't relate to that or say I know what you're talking about. Then again, I've never been a codependent type and I've always had the mindset that, regardless, of what happens and whose involved I have to always remember my sense of responsibility for self, my children, etc so my relationships during pregnancy/child-rearing were pretty free of stresses. I did endure a lot of stress during one due to outside interference that resulted in losing a child at 7 months pregnant but that is not related to the topic at hand really.

Then to, I don't have little children anymore so maybe I've missed out on this new dynamic of complications in thse life changes that I take to be naturally flowing and no big deal. My kids are 17 and 11. Stepchildren that I still deal with are 22, 19, and 14.

Who knows. I may be content being the side piece of 'on-call' ass when they successfully bring in a new edition. I never know where the Universe will take me.
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  #30  
Old 10-31-2010, 04:39 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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I deleted the post that you're referring to because I felt it was just re-iterating the obvious.

It sounds like you're better equipped to deal with the stressors of every-day life than many people out there. Therefore it's no wonder that you're finding your dating-pool to be somewhat limited.
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