Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-27-2010, 12:16 PM
Ssebo Ssebo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default My heart feels like it expanded...

I am ashamed for the hurt I caused by keeping this to myself whilst wanting to share the experience with seeking (A).

Thanks to all who contributed so far. I'm sure A appreciates and so do I. I am also sure, that D will appreciate, knowing she "signed up" too. So yes, we are all THREE here now.

In case you want to know or it might help to assess the situation, if not... skip to the next paragraph. 41, married with A since 12 years, 2 great kids together (11/8), big daughter (24) from "earlier days". Traditionally a loner but always had more female friends when male friends, rather "bottled up" as far as emotions go but love to work. IT background and ex-Air force gone business... Publishing, IT, Project Management, Design, Marine Business... I love to work. I am also practising Rei-Ki since 15 years and I am a Rei-Ki Master since 2 years now. Yes, I spent 13 years as apprentice before I felt ready. I think that should do, ask if you need to know more, but I felt this might be helpful to complete a picture.

Now, what happened... We were looking for a assistant to support me and A found one she liked and felt comfortable with. So did I, from day 1! No, not in a sexual way as some might think now, but rather on an emotional level. And please, let's not bring the boss-PA-cliché in now. It was NOT like that at all. It was the first touch of hands - electrifying, soothing calming... I could not explain it. Yes, soon enough I developed deeper feelings and felt very comfortable with her around, felt ... love... That's when I started to question THIS, my marriage, myself...

There was nothing wrong with my marriage, nothing at all. I do love my wife, I love my kids, i love being around and with them, even though it may not seem so at times for a lot of work, which I love (remember). There was nothing wrong with me either, quite the opposite - I had opened up again, yet I closed at the same time. THIS felt good and it still does! Good on another level. Please, it is difficult to put in words and I had a hell of a time since D-Day, trying to explain "the feeling" to my wife with words AND to D.

When A found out I really would have loved to be able to say:"I am sorry darling, it was just an affair and did not mean anything." But I could not. Because it was not. It was early into our post D-Day discussions (which were up and down but great and I appreciate all of it truly), only 5 days later, then we attempted to "close" the D-chapter... and A seen and felt I could not do that for what I felt for D yet A knowing that I indeed do love her and nothing changed there. I am a few months ahead in (trying) to figure THIS out and thanks to the Web, found most alignment between what I feel and do in Poly. NO... it is NOT my excuse to get the best of both sides! My first encounter was like almost 20 years back in Europe, with 2 beautiful and funtastic woman, who turned to be out sisters and very sharing. After it fizzled out (I had to return to the UK from mainland) I locked it back in the deepest drawers as "been-there-done-that-was-great" - experience. Besides, it was really more on the fun side and not deep emotionally.

THIS was different. Yes, technically I was cheating on my wife. We went for "virtual counselling" under the topic of "surviving infidelity"... and strayed off. Because there was something else... Besides the "cheating affair" there was also the issue of what I truly and deeply felt inside me for D AND for my wife! As if that is not enough to complicate things, my wife having to deal with my "affair" and the emotional consequences for us, now she has to deal with the "poly-matter" as well, tearing down the walls of "socially nurtured paradigms". Guess what? I also felt "connected" to D in a very special, non-sexual, non-physical but 'fulfilling' way... I feel her spiritually - and when she is happy and at peace (which she was not for the better part of our "affair" for the hiding and secretiveness) she radiates positive, calm and all encompassing deep reaching Energy. She is beautiful from within - and did not even know. My wife's Chakra is the 5th, mine is the 6th and guess what... D's is the 7th - the crown Chakra. The lower 3 in each of us are perfectly balanced and the 3 of us together complement ea. other. I wanted to share this with the woman I love - my wife!
I don't know if this makes sense to you here or not and you can believe or imagine what you want or just accept, as I did, and so too did my my wife by now.

So here we are, my wife, D and I, "after cheating" plus poly plus spiritual... Damn it, I wish it was easier, but it is not.

When A found out and asked me for truth and honesty, I asked her repeatedly, if she really wants to know the truth and me being absolute honest. She did ...and it hurt! Her, me and D.

That was followed by 3 weeks of daily talks, re-assurances, piecing puzzles together, trying to make sense of all and ... to find a way to move forward together. And this is where complications start. I order to do that we had to decide on how-together-mono-poly

The together was easy - YES! no question at all. I love my wife and I know and feel she loves me too. So not for the kids but for US ... we move forward together! Mono...? Then I have to bury D, the spiritual and the poly issue. To be objective, and I think we both were, it might wallop up again ...one day... so, poly...? If poly, then with or without D. Considering the spiritual value we all might gain together it would make sense, considering the hurt I caused with my "affair" (I hte this word!) with D to A, to right if A does not want to see D again at all. That was the predicament and that caused a period of stalling.

By all means, I knew what I had done (as it was done a few years back to me before), I knew what A felt and how she suffered. We knew we wanted to move forward together, but HOW?

A was a real treasure during the next days and I really love her for that too, coming out of her safe "social framework" and considering poly, so we could deal with it according to how WE feel and see fit. But not only that ... as you know from her post earlier yesterday, we planned to meet all three, A, D and I. And meet we did.

Please, I do empathise with my wife and I know what I did to her feelings, last but not least because I was down that lane before myself (not with her). The issue was to find direction, which is difficult enough after any affair and considering poly. But there was a third person to consider here too! I did not want to pressure my wife into something but we needed to come clear on the how to. One thing I learned in my life is that if you really have a fear or phobia then the best way to deal with it and "treat" it is to face it. And I a really grateful my wife decided to do that and we all three met - sooner then I would have thought or had hoped.

You are all very encouraging. Thank you for the strength and comfort you are giving us.

I did take my responsibility and realised how bad and hurtful this would/will be and was for my wife. and that was adding to the pain and the "emotional" withdraw, the hanging in between. I am not playing the victim and I do not wish for anyone to have to go through this. At the same time D is not the other woman or mistress in this but rather a "victim" as my wife is. I was actually the ass pursuing her against her principles (and until then mine too). I did it all and wish I would have found a way to tell A and share earlier, but honestly seeking your advice here (even though it's a bit late in the day for that) HOW? I was afraid of hurting her, I did not find the "right way" to tell her ... we tried, may be A wants to elaborate on that a bit more. I did not try to protect myself, but constantly tried to make it somehow "comfortable" for both, A and D. I found out it doesn't work, but we are all wiser with hindsight.

@Mohegan and GroundedSpirit
Oh my, I read through your threads Mohegan... thank you. I wish you all the best and happiness. Dreams are there to be lived. GS, I believe your reply might have been the trigger for the first "threesome outing" we had yesterday. Thank you. I don't think you quite know how much support you gave us, especially with your validation of the spiritual thing PROBABLY being quite real. And yes... it is, as I am sure A felt it now too. Thank you. *LOOONG HUG* (I did say I am emotionally bottled up!) But Angel D opened the cap for all three of us.

What can I say, I love two angels, two loving and caring woman who actually do feel love for each other too (emotionally). One thing I forgot to mention though, I have not cried a tear in like over 20 years! Yesterday it was very very close - I had to gulp a few times, at least felt like crying.... when D told A she loves me and HER TOO! And A, my great wife... also loves D.

I believe, during our "date" A also felt a bit of what I felt and we all felt warm and comfortable, last but not least for D who was very open and understanding and ACCEPTING too. And she was the last one to be HIT by me with "poly and spirit". But she was great, thank you babe, and thank you darling, my wife. I love both of you, slightly different and no, not one more than the other, just different making it all complete. I don't know how we are going to make it. It-What? It's new to me too. But I feel, I know we can, and we can make it a happy life together, content and enjoyable, with respect for each other as long as we keep all as open as is now.

Shoot me, I am sorry, I did not intend to "byte up" the forum with my "defence".

If you made it down to this line... thank you for reading.

Looking forward to hear (read) from ALL of you.
__________________
"Just for today..."
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-27-2010, 12:26 PM
Ssebo Ssebo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default

Sorry, just noticed makes only half sense without this...

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3997
__________________
"Just for today..."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-27-2010, 12:39 PM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,369
Default

Thanks for that explanation The more we know about a situation, the more specific the advice can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssebo View Post
I did it all and wish I would have found a way to tell A and share earlier, but @tonberry and SNeacail... honestly seeking your advice here (even though it's a bit late in the day for that) HOW? I was afraid of hurting her, I did not find the "right way" to tell her ... we tried, may be A wants to elaborate on that a bit more. I did not try to protect myself, but constantly tried to make it somehow "comfortable" for both, A and D. I found out it doesn't work, but we are all wiser with hindsight.
It's hard, of course. When I came out to my husband I was terrified. It certainly helped that there wasn't "another man" at the time, so it was more about hypotheses then.

I think we have that vision of "The Cheater" who is an evil person who hurts someone willingly, or two (his wife and the mistress), so of course you don't recognise yourself in that.
But the fact is, a cheater is a human being who made mistakes which, depending on the situation, can be understandable. In your case, you loved two women, and couldn't conciliate that with what you've always been taught. The options that are obvious would be leaving your wife (but why? You love her!), not pursuing D (but you love her too!) or cheating on her (not ideal, certainly uncomfortable, but the option that made most sense).
Thinking of the polyamory option isn't something most people are trained to. Even if they're willing to be open about it, one or both partners could be totally closed to it, and then what do you do?
What if you told your wife and she left you? That would be terrible.
I can understand what went through your mind, something similar happened to me. However, I can tell you that as far as I know, people are more accepting of something if they hear about it beforehand than if they learn it happened behind their back.

The "cheating" isn't about hurting people. It's not about saying "I love you" and not meaning it. It's about hiding things and lying about things, and I do believe it can be to protect other people, as well as out of fear, and not because you want it to be that way, hidden, forever.

It WAS an affair because your wife didn't agree to it beforehand. Now that she knows, it's not, unless you break one of her boundaries willingly. It's good that you recognise you have hurt her, and I know you were in a hard situation, but from her point of view, you made all the decisions without her, you left her out of it, and that's the part that hurts more, I think. In a relationship, it's good for everyone to get together and discuss the fact and how to act on them, and she didn't have all the facts.

It's over and done with, no need to beat yourself over it, now you can go to the next phase, of working hard on your relationship. Considering the circumstances, I think you have a fair chance at it. You all seem willing to try hard and work together, so that's a very good thing.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-27-2010, 01:29 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New England USA
Posts: 1,231
Default Welcome

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssebo View Post
Thanks to all who contributed so far. I'm sure A appreciates and so do I. I am also sure, that D (X-Affair) will appreciate, knowing she "signed up" too. So yes, we are all THREE here now.
Welcome Ssebo - thanks for choosing to join us all !

I'm so happy that you 3 - as a whole - are choosing to investigate this together.

It's a funny life. It seems more and more people are discovering that 'being fully alive' does not fit well within all the rigid boundaries imposed by eons of power structures. Having the courage and willingness to be open, to investigate what the universe seems to be trying to teach us, is not for the faint of heart.

Follow your hearts. Love much (and often). Let the answers come of their own accord.

GS
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-27-2010, 04:54 PM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,634
Default

Welcome to the forum S. Thanks for the long message. I can imagine this has been hard for you. I have a little empathy having been there, but I am struggling with the fact that you hate the word "affair."

You sound like a spiritual man who is used to bring grounded in that and I can imagine that there is little room for raunchy words such as "affair" and "cheating." They are words rooted in the lower chakras I think and perhaps this is something to consider. It sounds like you feel comfy in the higher chakras, but unfortunately or fortunately we are made of all.

The fact that you had an affair and cheated means that you too have all the the chakras within you. I think you should embrace that and be a bit more humble about it, a bit more of a mirror to yourself.

Look at your wifes face, you fucked up big time in your endevours with this woman. Use her as a mirror to yourself. See the pain you caused. You say you are doing that, but something makes me think that you aren't entirely. Or you would of cried. Long and hard. Crying for your wife. Not you.

I bet that the sex wasn't fantastic and raunchy and rooted in the most grounded chakra. Admit that, be humble about it, its more becoming I think to be humble and ashamed in moments like this. To give of yourself entirely to that without ego.

Please consider that what you DID is as important as the spiritual aspect. Its two fold. You had actions, based on desire and connection (spirit), that is nothing to be ashamed of, but needs to be admited in terms of saying out loud (the two need to be whole), yelling it if you have to "I fucked up! I had an affair, I cheated on my wife!" perhaps then you will cry; when you realize your integrity is now damaged and broken and she has potential to never trust you the way she once did. Somewhere in her is a piece of hatred and resentment I think. That will never be shaken I don't think.

I hope your meeting went well. I would think you had some glee in seeing your two loves together, but I would be very careful with that. This is not your moment. This is your wife's. Everything should be given to her. She deserves to be bowed down to, head lowered, in shame and apology in order to rise up again.

This would be very hard to hear and I don't expect a response that is positive. I would ask that you realize I am not unlike you. I understand entirely what it means to love more than one. To cheat in order to fulfill that and what it means to feel that spirit that is connection, but I have also realized that this is not my journey alone and I need to be realistic, humble, respectful, full of integrity and empathy and not think with ego ever again if I am to have my hearts desire that I need so much.

I hope you take the time to read the threads tagged with "cheating" "affairs" etc. Do a search and get comfy with the word and all it means. You have entered that realm and that is only a detriment if you allow it to be. You can change everthing for the better if you focus on the process to do so. The journey has just begun, I know that. At this time you can embrace it and take it on, one day to educate others and help them with their journey, having learned and become a better man than you ever thought possible. I'm excited for you you have a lot to do, but you seem like the type to do it!
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-27-2010, 06:25 PM
SNeacail's Avatar
SNeacail SNeacail is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Near Disneyland
Posts: 1,532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssebo View Post
considering the hurt I caused with my "affair" (I hte this word!) with D to A,
Why do you hate the word and not the action? The word accurately describes your action. The truth of the matter is you did have choices and this is the route you chose to take and now you have to wade through the fallout.

On SA's post, I said that you did not lie to protect her, but to protect yourself. I stand by that, if your goal was to protect SA, your choices and actions would have been different. Having an affair is a selfish action, lying in order to continue said affair is a selfish action. I can understand not disclosing a ONE-TIME slip, but an ongoing affair is different. Truth was you were affraid of the fallout if you were discovered, ie. she would leave you, your affair would have to end, etc.

Finding out after the fact and finding out you were lied to is absolutely devastating and can be worse and more damaging than had the truth come out in the beginning.

Just saying, you need to own up to the entire UGLY truth and proceed from there. No sugar coating it, no justifying it and no lying to yourself. Communication and honesty are key to making any relationship work and it multiplies exponentially when you start adding partners. Good Luck!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-28-2010, 04:42 AM
Ssebo Ssebo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default acceptance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonberry View Post
I think we have that vision of "The Cheater" who is an evil person who hurts someone willingly, or two (his wife and the mistress), so of course you don't recognise yourself in that.
....

Considering the circumstances, I think you have a fair chance at it. You all seem willing to try hard and work together, so that's a very good thing.
Thanks TB, I do see where you are coming from. I do accept the fact that I cheated or was "The Cheater" - and yes it hurts and I wish I would/could have been open about all from the beginning and enjoy all moments truly with my wife and D. As it stands now, my wife is actually not so hard wired as she and I thought and D is surely more compassionate when expected. As I said earlier, I do feel truly blessed having two "angels" in my life.

Thank you TB
__________________
"Just for today..."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-28-2010, 04:49 AM
Ssebo Ssebo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default It's a funny life

Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
...It's a funny life. It seems more and more people are discovering that 'being fully alive' does not fit well within all the rigid boundaries imposed by eons of power structures...
Thank you GS. you are right to the point. We wonder most of the time through life wondering and "feeling" something else is there and can not explain... until much later or after. It is the 3rd time for me to (re)discover emotional freedom and attempting to disregard societal expectations. I just wish I would have been more persistent to have taken SA on this journey from the start at the engine and not the last wagon. I can only try (and I will!) to make mends and to make up and path the way together to enjoy this life with SA with lower, less or no boundaries but the one's we set for us.

Cheers
__________________
"Just for today..."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-28-2010, 05:22 AM
Ssebo Ssebo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Thumbs up "affair"

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Welcome to the forum S. Thanks for the long message. I can imagine this has been hard for you. I have a little empathy having been there, but I am struggling with the fact that you hate the word "affair." ...
Thank you Redpepper. I may be on the way to be a "spiritual man" - still a long way to go and obviously, considering the "Cheating", not that enlightened yet as I know now I could have chosen a different path to get to this point.

Why do I hate the word "affair"...? Well I do in this context, as an affair on my books is something" along the way and by the way, passing, ... not deep or feeling lasting... and this "affair" did not feel like that, that's why. An affair does not feel like you having this urge to share this with the one you are "cheating" on. And that is what I felt and feel - that D is good for both of us and we can learn so much from her and receive good through her.

I fully agree, and said before, all our lower Chakras are actually well balanced, including mine.
Yes, I fucked up, I owned up to it, I am aware and feel the pain I caused my wife and I would love to cry if only I could!

Crying... that is a point I only covered in one line and may be it was gone under in the "over"-long post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssebo View Post
One thing I forgot to mention though, I have not cried a tear in like over 20 years! Yesterday it was very very close - I had to gulp a few times, at least felt like crying....
Redpepper, I agree with you BUT I can not cry! getting very close to it (and believe me much closer now than over the last 20 years) I can not cry but I want to - for my wife!

You lost the bet - it was and is. You did not make reference to "with whom" but it is with my wife AND D. But that is not what all this was or is all about. I can do nothing but agree on everything else though and I openly admitted, resumed my responsibility for having fucked up and cheated on my wife. I still can not cry as much as I want to, as I do remember the relief and somewhat clarity it brings after the grief which I am sharing with my wife, who does not resent me or carries hate. D is also very supportive - to her. Yes, the meeting went well, very well, unexpectedly well and we all parted feeling warm and content - a tremendous amount of love for each other.

I think, no I feel we can make this journey together and I agree, we can not even consider to do so without mutual respect, humbleness and dignity, empathetic to not hurt by pushing over current and real boundaries but gently leading each other across "safe passings".

Redpepper... thank you for taking the time to get back to me in my wife's thread, for which I and/or what I did are the cause! And thank you for being honest and sharing this.
__________________
"Just for today..."
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-28-2010, 05:41 AM
Ssebo Ssebo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9
Default Ouch... but thank you

SN

thank you for replying, I do value your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssebo View Post
Why do I hate the word "affair"...?
Quite simply, an affair is ... "a romantic or passionate attachment typically of limited duration" ... and this does not feel like it. Some could argue though as it originates from the French "a faire" - to do... and yes, I chose to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNeacail View Post
I can understand not disclosing a ONE-TIME slip, but an ongoing affair is different. Truth was you were affraid of the fallout if you were discovered, ie. she would leave you, your affair would have to end, etc.
That is about the only statement in your post where I would like to agree with you that we disagree on that. Not disclosing a ONE-TIME slip is the same as not disclosing an ongoing "affair". Technically, we are back on the a faire - to do. You do it once or more often - no difference. It's double standards and opens the door to really silly arguments... "I only did it once (with her, and her and her)"... or "I only did it ONE-TIME (a day, a week, month...). The basics would be no different, it still is "Cheating" once or more... and I would have felt the same after ONE-Time or as now the ongoing "affair".

I can assure you, I wanted to, would have "come out" especially since I really wanted SA to share this with me - I did not know how. We tried to talk about it ... failed.... and yes, I chose to continue and I do take responsibility for this now - as ugly as it is. But I am there for SA and share her pain and hurt. I am aware it would have been much better to have avoided this and found a different approach altogether.

Thank you SN, overall I share your view, except for the matter of "frequency/rate-of-occurrence of incident".
__________________
"Just for today..."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
affairs, cheating

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:00 PM.