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  #91  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:53 AM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Poly, and life itself is about the journey, not the destination in my opinion... just when I think I have it all under wraps and figured out, something else comes up to work on.

embracing issues and situations and going in with a positive attitude, full of wonder and interest about it all, is about all I can hope to do for myself. The rest just comes... so I might as well love the ride. Even if I wish I could get off sometimes.
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  #92  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:51 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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When one person gets sick, EVERYONE gets sick.

*snuffle* *cough* *hack*
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  #93  
Old 10-03-2010, 06:32 PM
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Default On the triad/quad dream

I hope Groundspirit doesn't mind my quoting him. If he does I will write this in my own words. I just thought he had a really good point and said it so well.

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Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
I feel setting it up as some 'goal' and not feeling satisfied otherwise is going to lead to disappointment and disillusionment. Because the 'dream' tends to ignore human nature.
As we've spoken about frequently, all people form connections of various depths and in various fashions. There is never this idealized 'equality' any more than leaves on the same tree are all equal.

And I always get a shiver when I hear such talk because to me it harks back somewhat to the 'same old model' - a slightly expanded form of monogamy. Only with one additional person. In such a configuration I see the same potential for problems and conflict as I'd see in a classic 2 person monogamous relationship, but maybe with one important difference.

These people have looked at 'expanded' loving & relationships, chosen it, and I have a feeling that in most cases trying to close that down is going to be difficult.

Pandora's box has already been opened. Monogamy was found lacking (something) in order to choose this in the first place and once discovered that's not likely to change.
I think this sums up why I feel uncomfortable with the closed triad dream... or closed quad dream for that matter... it isn't expanding, but as rigid as monogamous rules. Of course that doesn't mean that it doesn't work for some, I am sure there are some it does work for, but as you say GS, when the box of possibilities is open then the prospect of closing it down after NRE has settled seems unlikely and painful.

There seems to be a very real dream for a lot of couples opening up their relationship that it would be perfect for them to find a unicorn or someone that will be dedicated to them, be exclusive to them and be everything they want her/him to be. They would be more than willing to fold themselves into their arms forever and love them evenly.

That dream is a lovely one for sure and I think there are all good intentions when couples set out with this in mind, but I must say the only time I have had this work in my life is when we got a guinea pig. He loves us all evenly because we give him food. He loves to snuggle on our laps and we know this because of the noises he makes. Sure, we aren't about to have sex with him, but the love from him is precious and constant.

Intelligent people with free will are more like cats. They aren't going to fold into a couples arms for ever without some drama and someone getting scratched. Trying to make a cat cuddle with you when it doesn't want to is just not going to work if they want to go out and do a some bird hunting. I think that this is something that needs to be considered for couples setting out with a "dream" in mind.

The thing with poly is that it creates independence. There is no room for co-dependency within it because by its very nature it forces us out into the world and forces us inward to find the answers. We aren't coming from two, but many and that means turning it around and standing on our own two feet I think. Trying to shove co-dependency on the situation seems to lead to a whole lot of heartache.

People seem to find that they either need to look inward and at themselves because their love is out with other lovers and they have time freed up, or they have to go out into the world to seek new love and possible lovers for themselves. These are independent acts. Sure the one who is the object of love in a triads beginnings might love the couple but this is not exclusive to them once NRE is over it seems. It divides in two. So why not nurture love with the object of love independently from the beginning so as to respect the independence that is more natural to our ways for being...?
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  #94  
Old 10-04-2010, 03:14 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
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NP - RP - somewhat flattered I guess ! If words ever have any value they need to be used I guess.

Being a cat person - I love the cat analogy. Maybe it's because I've always loved their spirit of independence ?
If you can have a wonderful relationship with a cat you are a poly natural !

The love is always there but not under your control. But it always seems to show up when you can use it most, even if it starts with a scratch before the purr. Sometimes we need that scratch to wake up.

GS
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  #95  
Old 10-20-2010, 11:15 PM
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Default metamours.

Metamours defining their relationship is the foundation of a long term poly arrangement I think...

Don't ask don't tell (DADT), I can't imagine would be the key to a long term successful relationship... although I'm sure it happens... but is that success? I don't know. I would think that if a person has long term goals with another person, or for themselves that their partners would eventually have to meet and create a relationship of their own; whether or not it is a bonded friendship that is akin to brotherhood or sisterhood, or one that is a quiet understanding. Coming together as some kind of group would be necessary in order to get on with other things in life I would think.
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Last edited by redpepper; 10-21-2010 at 03:11 AM.
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  #96  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:28 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Metamours defining their relationship is the foundation of a long term poly arrangement I think...

DADT I can't imagine would be the key to a long term successful relationship... although I'm sure it happens... but is that success? I don't know. I would think that if a person has long term goals with another person, or for themselves that their partners would eventually have to meet and create a relationship of their own; whether or not it is a bonded friendship that is akin to brotherhood or sisterhood, or one that is a quiet understanding. Coming together as some kind of group would be necessary in order to get on with other things in life I would think.
I suppose it's about how you define "success". A friend of mine has had the same affair for 8 years ... He's also still very much in love with his spouse. Obviously, his relationships "work", despite what we may think of the ethics.

I think a DADT situation could work just fine for the people involved. It's just really hard for us to see their success as a success because it's not what we would define as success.
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  #97  
Old 10-21-2010, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckerPete View Post
I suppose it's about how you define "success". A friend of mine has had the same affair for 8 years ... He's also still very much in love with his spouse. Obviously, his relationships "work", despite what we may think of the ethics.

I think a DADT situation could work just fine for the people involved. It's just really hard for us to see their success as a success because it's not what we would define as success.
very true... I just wouldn't be able to rationalize deceit as functional and successful, but DADT I could do... for while. True, depends on the goal.
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  #98  
Old 10-21-2010, 04:53 PM
marksbabygirl marksbabygirl is offline
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Lesson learned:

Don't try to talk about something that is bothering you after you've drunk 3/4 of a bottle of homemade wine. Shitstorms ensue.
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  #99  
Old 10-21-2010, 07:27 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Homemade wine? You mean stuff that will take away axle grease? I have some of that kicking around somewhere, and no one will drink it for me. I'm waiting for the first gang of starving under-age alcoholics to come trick-or-treating.
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  #100  
Old 10-21-2010, 07:28 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Homemade wine? You mean stuff that will take away axle grease? I have some of that kicking around somewhere, and no one will drink it for me. I'm waiting for the first gang of starving under-age alcoholics to come trick-or-treating.
*snork* My hero!
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