Not wanting to judge

[Ready2Fly]

Originally Posted by CielDuMatin

While I haven't actually tried swinging, I did go through a phase on casual sex outside of my relationship (with the consent of my partner).

I've got news for ya.

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

Another thing that bothers me more about swinging is its homophobia, which reflects the larger culture. Men enjoy watching FF action. So FF action is okey dokey. Straight men think bi or gay male sex is gross, or they are afraid of being approached by other men (why? they just need to say no). So, no MM action allowed at swingers parties.

I agree. That's an issue. Poly is much more egalitarian that way. I think that the reason, rather than outright homophobia, is that there is a very strong voyeuristic motivation for swinging. To see your partner with someone else is the turn-on. It's easy to turn down MM sex, but seeing MM sex isn't the turn-on for hetero guys that seeing MF sex with the partner is. Guys and couples who want MM sex can get it... at different parties.

The men at swingers parties are old, ugly and out of shape. "Their" women keep themselves reasonably fit and groomed. A woman will go to these parties so her husband can shag other attractive women, and allow herself to be fucked by men she isnt attracted to, to please her husband (maybe b/c she fears losing her meal ticket, or social approval and status, or fear for her children's welfare, or?). Ugh. How disgusting.

That's a very unfair and prejudicial caricature of swinging. And inappropriate to suggest that women could only possibly be with their partners because they need a "meal ticket" or couldn't actually desire casual sex on their own accord. There are bad apples in poly too (pick-up-artists have learned the word), but we don't let them define it.

I was put off by swinging too, before I knew what it was, until my GF, who is from that community, took me to a club. It wasn't at all what I had imagined (which was pretty gross). I had a great time, and everyone there (no ugly out of shape men or women) was there for nothing but a great sex-positive time. I didn't see any evidence of women being passed around as chattel; what I did see was women and men having a fun time with each other in a completely consensual, responsible manner. It was just like the dorm orgies back in college.

[NeonKaos]

The "sausage fest" rule is also common at many non-sexual recreational-nudity venues for the same reasons. It has very little to do with men being "predatory" and "vaginas are holes and the more holes the better" but rather if there is no quota for single men, you end up with a ratio of twenty men to one woman.

[Magdlyn]

Originally Posted by Ready2Fly

That's a very unfair and prejudicial caricature of swinging. And inappropriate to suggest that women could only possibly be with their partners because they need a "meal ticket" or couldn't actually desire casual sex on their own accord. There are bad apples in poly too (pick-up-artists have learned the word), but we don't let them define it.

I'm sorry. I didnt mean to generalize. I am sure there are some attractive male swingers. I was just passing along a recent insight by someone here.

I was put off by swinging too, before I knew what it was, until my GF, who is from that community, took me to a club. It wasn't at all what I had imagined (which was pretty gross). I had a great time, and everyone there (no ugly out of shape men or women) was there for nothing but a great sex-positive time. I didn't see any evidence of women being passed around as chattel; what I did see was women and men having a fun time with each other in a completely consensual, responsible manner. It was just like the dorm orgies back in college.

That's good to know (altho I didnt go to college orgies :P ).

And I guess what you see as attractive could vary. I was approached by a unicorn seeking swinging (or ex swinging) couple recently, and thought the 40something guy's Tom Selleck mustache needed to go~! maybe I read too much into facial and head hairstyles, but if your mustache is 70's style, I fear your mindset will be old fashioned as well.

[CielDuMatin]

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

The men at swingers parties are old, ugly and out of shape.

So you're saying I would fit right in...

Originally Posted by Ready2Fly

I've got news for ya.

OK, point taken - I guess I meant that I never got involved with parties or the "community".

So I guess yes, I did "dip my toe" into those waters...

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by Superjast

If you don`t restrict single males, the party will be a 'sausage party'. History dictates, Men are more likely to be open and excited by the idea of a swinger party, then most single women are. Males will more readily attend. If every guy in the room that showed up, was one of the nicest guys in the world, it is STILL a sausage party.


.

I totally understand the reasoning behind implimenting these rules at swinger parties. But this is supposedly not a swinger party, so why bring those rules into play? This is what creates mistrust in me that people are truly communicating thier purpose. I am naturally suspicious and my snap opinion is that the swinger pool is getting boring and it's a party to hopefully freshen the pot so to speak. Nothing wrong with that, just be upfront about it if it is the case.

[Ready2Fly]

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

That's good to know (altho I didnt go to college orgies :P ).

You missed out.

I just think that poly people get the same bad rap: monos who have no experience with it at all pretty much uniformly think of poly (if they think of it at all) as an inability to commit, a lot of f*cking around, harem-building, sexual abuse, and so on. Which makes it unfortunate that it's a little trendy in the poly community to look down at our noses at swingers. It's essentially the same treatment we get from society at large.

[anotherbo]

@ Mono ~ This does seem to be a strange rule if the party is not actually about swinging, as they represented. Maybe they are worried their regular party will also become a sausage party, and not so fun as a result? Or perhaps they are just so used to having this rule, they didn't stop to think whether it was applicable here.

[SourGirl]

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

I totally understand the reasoning behind implimenting these rules at swinger parties. But this is supposedly not a swinger party, so why bring those rules into play? This is what creates mistrust in me that people are truly communicating thier purpose. I am naturally suspicious and my snap opinion is that the swinger pool is getting boring and it's a party to hopefully freshen the pot so to speak. Nothing wrong with that, just be upfront about it if it is the case.

I had actually put in a paragraph about this, but ended up taking it out. I hate getting wordy.

What NeonKhaos said. There are many venues where sausage-party rules exsist. Wether with nudists, or completely vanilla. Simple 'singles' dances,..even Christian ones,....have a sausage-type party rule. They make sure that there is equal numbers coming through the door.


I do, however agree with the fact, that if it is a party, where they are opening the door up,..it should be on the up and up. However, that implies intent.

[NeonKaos]

I'd like to add that I have BEEN to certain "specialized" venues where there is no "sausage fest rule" and it inevitably DOES turn into a "sausage fest". I have not once, NEVER been to a specialized venue where there was no rule and it ended up being equal or skewed in favor of female attendance.

As usual with many of my "judgmental" posts, I do not know what the reason(s) are for this. I just know that I have seen this happen from first-hand experience. Don't anyone fucking get on my case about WHY. I have no control over these things. I didn't cause things to be that way. I'm just relating what I have observed.

[Derbylicious]

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

Redpepper recently posted about a party that is specific in who can attend despite not being a swinger party. Single women and "selected single men" is a statement that irritates me.

When I hear that it makes me think of two things. That men are considered predatory as opposed to women, and that the people at the party are more capable to deal/accept predatory women as opposed to a predatory man.

Basically any vagina is welcome because we can deal with that and the more holes the better, but a rogue penis is too threatening to our women and men.

Sadly I find this reiterates my sense that women are chattel and used for bartering.

That was the same reaction I had to it because it was worded in exactly the same way as the swingers parties that I attended in the past. Those parties made me uncomfortable because they did seem predatory because I was one of the youngest women there and no one there had fucked me. (and still haven't I might add).

Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG

Luckily Redpepper has PN and Derby who are much more sex positve than me and therefore I don't feel pressured to attend such events.

The only reason I am going is because RP and PN and some other friends of ours will be there. It makes an otherwise unsafe environment safe for me. I don't know that I am more sex positive than you are. There are many many things that are uncomfortable for me. I'm still working on why.

-Derby