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  #11  
Old 10-16-2010, 05:15 PM
vodkafan vodkafan is offline
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Hi Whimsey,

Hope you are OK . I can't help feeling that insisting on the frequent updates did nobody any good. When we first started our polyandry we had very few rules but the one big one was the no-contact rule. And we have a 4 day, 3 day split. So I didn't hear from my wife for a 3 whole days at a time. The other guy didn't hear from her for a whole 4 days at a time. It was hard but very neccessary.
I learned to get on with stuff and get stronger in her 3 days away. It gave me plenty of time to process. Having updates like that will drive you crazy and will lead to resentment all round. You already had a fall out with your husband and he is not even back yet!
Chill girl it will be OK.

Admitted you have much previous grevious with his cheating. I am sure that is a factor in how you are feeling. I am not in any way criticizing you just trying to help you through.

Good luck.
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  #12  
Old 10-16-2010, 05:42 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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Hi whimsey, your husband is an accomplished Cheater. It will take him awhile to understand fully what you are feeling and how it effects you. You have absolutely no reason to not blow up. He will get to experience how his actions affect you. Hopefully he will realize where his priorities lye. He is used to leaving the woman he has just fucked and coming home to your smiling face, not an irate deeply hurt one. I can imagine the shocking change for him. That absolutely in no way means you should not be anything but yourself, emotions and all.

Am I to understand that he did the thing you disliked and were concerned about the most? Which is holding her, consoling her and taking care of her needs? Did they have sex? I can imagine that it might be easy for him to lie about that part, but I really hope he isn't.

I hope he is reading all this. As someone who has cheated in the past I have some empathy for him and you. Its a difficult adjustment to poly. Cheating, on its surface is so much easier. At least at the beginning anyways. All NRE and nothing else. After a time with one person it seems to fall flat when its discovered that there is no way to move forward with out people knowing, then it gets stale. I really hope that he knows that all this hard work at being an up-standing husband who is attentive to your needs first as his primary is necessary. He will experience a world of pain himself, that is part of it. Unfortunately he has chosen a path that is more difficult than being honest from the beginning. He will have to do a lot of sucking up his own wants now to get on track. If he does, the journey isn't as long or disasterous. The sooner he realises that he had his fun and now its time to work, the better. I'm not sure, but it sounds like his having to now deal with two womens emotions and a new metamour in her husband was maybe premature to the marginally more comfortable path he could of taken of no new women until you and he were completely connected again. Dropping this new woman would of been much more easy I would think. Hard at first, but a delay for as long as it takes would of been easier I would think. Now he could very well of connected with her more deeply and it could very well be more difficult on all of you.

Again Mr. whimsey (I forget your name, sorry), take it from a seasoned veteran, go at the pace of your wife. She needs a slower pace and if you want to keep her on your side with this, you should do as she asks I think. As painfully hard as that is when you are swooning over another. Now is the time to realize that Christmas is over for you and its time to do some work. I know you don't know me from Adam, and likely couldn't give a shit what I say but look into your heart and figure out what is most respectful to those in your life. Keep in the moment with THAT rather than who you are with and you may just find a rock to hold on to.
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  #13  
Old 10-16-2010, 07:00 PM
whimsey whimsey is offline
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Thanks once again

I just talked to him, briefly...he had just arrived at her hotel.

I think he is absolutely living in the moment. He apologized for not communicating more, very formally, and moved on. I know I shouldn't quibble with tone - he took responsibility for that and for leaving her last night. It was very clear that he was doing it for me and would much rather not have.

So I take from this that guidelines are going to chafe him and cause more troubles, but he is used to getting his way with me and I don't know if I should stand my ground or not. It's moot right now, but will come up big time when he's going to be in her city of 9 days starting Nov. 6.

If I'm struggling this much now...how can I handle that?

You are very wise people, and very supportive and I really appreciate it beyond words.

vodkafan:
I didn't actually request tons of updates...I wanted to be in the loop, because last I had heard it would be all or nothing, and I thought that knowing that they had resolved all thier issues and were moving forward in a relationship would be (or that they were just closing out the local watering hole) would be good to know. I think I was doing pretty good until he'd well passed the time when he said he'd be heading out, and hadn't contacted me for almost 5 hours just to let me know that - hey, things are looking good, going back to her room, or hey, this is not going as planned, getting thoroughly plastered...

I can see where no contact might be easier in some ways. We do have a kid, so communication with him is important...he needs things to be stable if possible and of course he knows things are rocky right now.

But thanks for your thoughts and input. I agree that the past trust issues colour everything, and that's to be expected, I think.

Mohegan:
Thanks for your perspective. I'm glad you've been able to come out on the other side of this...I'm really struggling with seeing how that can happen right now, as things stand. I'm hoping, since he's been reading this, that other perspetives might help him as well as me. I agree that communication is key. And I think that while he's there, he will continue to be torn and on the defensive. So hopefully when he gets home we can work on things.

And he isn't as willing as it sounds like Karma was, to be completely transparent and open...that hurts a lot. He is willing to go to a point, and tells me he's being honest, but he hedges around things or gives non-answers, or won't offer information so I have to push until I find the right question to unlock the information, which is hard work and causes more defensiveness on his part and frustration on mine.

He's going to be exhausted when he gets home, and so will I and I know that it is when we're both wiped that we really mess up the communication, so...I'm not sure how to handle that yet. It's harder with him working all day and night tomorrow as well.

Rachelina:
Thanks again for your support...I think NRE is huge right now - they've finally met after months of emails, texts and chats. He is down playing it. I think it's a pride thing to not admit to be lost in it, so he's using other words...infatuated, in love...

Your words struck a deep chord in me...when you said I deserved to be appreciated for the huge effort...that really is missing right now...he just sounds exasperated with me. He tells me he loves me, and he apologized very precisely for not following through on communication. That's been it. He hasn't acknowledged my pain - in fact he told how upset she was last night when he wanted to go...so he stayed and held her until she feel asleep...he told me she was hysterical....well, by that point, before I finally heard from him, so was I. But he is so firmly in that moment with her, to all appearances...

I have to say that I am always well aware that there are 2 or more sides to every story and my bottom line rule is for respect of anyone, so I am trying to make sure I am clear that I am fully aware that this is my perspective only, and that I was in a place of deep hurt. That being said, I am also clear that communication is not the only issue, though it is a huge one.

redpepper:
You are one wise woman. Thanks for your perspective, because you have been in his shoes, and to me, it sounds like you really get it.

You're right that they were intimate, though no sex...though that's what he really is hoping for. And honestly, I'd like to get that done...there was a lot of talking and connecting and making out. And she melted down and he stayed to hold her until she fell asleep, which is past the point when I was expecting to hear from him, and which is exactly the sort of intimacy that scares me the most. They didn't sleep together...somehow him staying with her, holding her until she fell asleep feels even worse. He feels a strong need to protect her, and he sees me as being strong.

I am so far from strong these days....I used to be, I felt really good about who I was as a person. But the cheating and the lying and everything that went with it really, really eroded a lot of that and I am far more fragile than I've ever been in my life. And I am working on getting strong, I am...I don't like this version of me...but it's hard, because it really is just me making myself strong again, and that's lonely and its hard because it wasn't me who knocked my foundations...I feel like I need and deserve help rebuilding that. And just when I was starting to really get stronger about the past cheating and about myself...and just when I was opening up to a whole lot of sexual stuff and personal stuff...awakening, really...just when it felt like we were re-connecting...that's when all this happened...I wasn't strong and I got knocked right back down.

Whoa - sorry....that came out of left field...that's what I mean about writing to process...It was really hard because it feels like he put supporting her over supporting me, and logically, I can see the importance - because he was there with her in the moment and it was obvious that she needed him. And I am chill and laid back for the most part, so I think it was easiest to just be in the moment and deal with me later. But I'm so broken right now and I need a bit of help putting myself back together and his choices and actions didn't help. They went to a place where they both knew there was a liklihood of her breaking down like that, right before he was supposed to head out for the night, so it didn't come out of the blue, and knowing they had all of today, I think they could've waited until today and maybe things would have gone differently.

Thanks for your words of wisdom to him...I hope he reads them and takes them to heart...I don't think I actually need as much as many others in this situation - I've been managing fairly well and have been feeling proud of that...but I do have needs too, and have made huge changes for him and for her...and those things need to be honoured as well.

And he doesn't have a name here yet, really....he called himself 'the mess in question', but names have such power and I hesitate to call him mess, which would maybe be logical. He and I need to talk about that. In the meantime, MR Whimsey made me LOL and that is a very good thing today

Thanks again everyone
and thanks for being willing to wade through all my words!

Today is harder than I thought - I figured I'd be distracted with activities and maybe excited about him coming home, but instead I'm just picturing them holed up in her hotel all day long and us fighting when he gets home.

A good friend of mine says to re-write your story...Put a positive and joyful spin on it. I'm usually pretty good with that, not so much today. I think I need to give myself some space to wallow, just a bit, and to be gentle with myself...and THEN I can look at re-writing this story of mine...

It helps so very, very much to be here. Thank you all.
Many hugs to you - I know the roads have been rocky at some point for every one of you and may be again. I'm gathering inspiration as I go...
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  #14  
Old 10-16-2010, 07:21 PM
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Glad things are going OK. I kept reading your posts last night but was too tired to write anything coherent.

No communication doesn't work for me. Like you, the less I know the more my imagination takes over.
I am learning to stay out of my head when Z is with J. It is very good practise in thought control. If I can filter out thoughts that don't serve me I'm better.
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2010, 07:28 PM
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Don't forget he is used to deception whimsey. Try not I punish him for the information he gives you as much as you want to. You need to be on the same team. That is what connection is about and the two of you didn't get a chance to complete that entirely as he was still cheating by talking to her on line. I would suggest talking to him about trying to achieve that or keep as much as you can right now by communicating and letting emotions out but not taking them as a trigger for more in each other. He might be reacting with apathy because he is overwhelmed and consumed by self protection in all this. After all he has now chosen to take on a needy secondary and is trying to play super hero. He could fail at that and really, I for one would not be surprised. Setting oneself up for success is far more affective but some people are ruled by their gentals and a pretty face.

I am gathering (assuming) this woman is an emothional mess because she is cheating? I hope that isn't another thing to pile on this shit load.
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Last edited by redpepper; 10-16-2010 at 07:55 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10-16-2010, 09:04 PM
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Mohegan Mohegan is offline
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I'm exhausted so I hope this makes sense. I wanted to touch on the contact while he's away.

For me, I need to know I can call whenever I need to. Cricket and I try not to interupt eachothers time with Karma, but there is no off limits to calls, as long as we're respectful. If we know they are on a romantic date, we wait. If they are just watching movies at home, no big deal.

Their overnights have been here, so that hasn't been an issue yet. But I have strict rules that when he does stay there, I can call if I need to, and I get a goodnight phone call.

That's my husband. If I don't get to curl up and go to sleep with him, I at least want to hear "goodnight, I love you". And he usualy does the same for her.

I guess it depends on the dynamics of the relationship, but I could never go long periods of time with no contact, and I doubt Cricket could either.

Ususaly when he goes out with her we have a "call me around this time" set up. He calls and just checks in. A lot of that is because of my medical problems, but it's peace of mind too.

As for standing your ground, you need to respect his space and his needs, but he needs to do the same with you. I second the going at the slowest persons pace. It's what got us through. Karma and Cricket were very accomodating to my needs. And very understanding that whatI was okay with one day, I may not be the next. That caused some fights, but we worked through it because we all want this to work. So it means we all have to work together.

I do think you'll have to make some compromises, but right now, he needs to be showing you that he's willing to gain back your trust. It'll make things easier on him in the long run, as he won't be met with as much opposition. Work now, reap the benefits later.
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Old 10-16-2010, 10:36 PM
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The thing Mr. W needs to realize is that he has breached the most sacred of trusts. Akin to that of a child to its parent.

When we enter marriage and go through the ceremony and all our family and friends are there we are committing to TRUSTING each other no matter what. That doesn't mean that we are going to be perfect, but we are going to be honest about it.

We are sold this idea that marriage means a certain thing and if we don't follow that we have to go underground to get our needs met. There is no room for others in traditional marriage and no room for honest communication. We have to suck up desire for others and a need to love more than one. At least at this time in history. Its bull shit really, but that is how it is.

We go into it trusting as a child does and then when someone cheats that raw, naive trust is broken and I think impossible to get back. It changes a person entirely. There is no hope of that innocence coming back. Once the trust is broken, its done.

Now that doesn't mean that achieving a new level of trust is not possible. It is, but it takes on a different form. No more of the blind, "you have to trust me" can happen again. There will always be doubt. You are at a place now I think where he has lost the right to assume that you will just trust. You get to have a say from now on as to what happens and you get to put your foot down in order to gain grounding, strength and assurance that you and your relationship with him will be okay. He has lost the right to just do whatever without your say. You trusted him and that is gone.

So if he is surprised that you are putting your foot down, this might be time for him to realize how it's going to be in the future. That doesn't mean you will dictate what happens, but will now be an active participant in that. Because obviously he is unable to handle that on his own, or he wouldn't of had affairs.

Mono had a two year affair and got kicked out by his wife for it. His daughter hasn't spoken to him in two years and the repercussions of his deceit live on. He is off this afternoon to visit his nephew and niece on her side. They will have nothing to do with me and don't want him to talk about his life now. It's been TWO years! That pain lasts a life time. It makes me sad to feel like some kind of whore. As if it was me he had an affair with. It wasn't me. but it doesn't matter. Not only that, I pass the places he used to go with this woman, occasionally she comes up and I am disgusted and don't want him to touch me. It wasn't even me he had an affair on. I would love to know Mono's wife and often tease that I would love to call her up and ask what the hell she did with him when he behaves a certain way. I have compassion for her. None for the woman he cheated with. He says she was a lovely woman, emotional and caring.... all I can muster is she is a cheating bitch that didn't have it in her to buck up and take care of her husband and life and move on or fix the issues between them. I'm trying to have some compassion, but fail.

My dad is still punished by my mum for his affair when I was 10. She never trusted him again and he never lived it down. Mono's mum suffered through his dad having many affairs over the years. He was a sailor for the Canadian naval fleet. She resigned herself to the pain and they never talk of it.

The point is that if Mr. W thinks this is all going to blow over because you are being so good about it, he is wrong. I think he needs to get out of his ego and selfishness and start empathizing and being respectful if he thinks you are worth keeping in his life.

HE has to live with it too. The guilt, the wondering if he can control himself, the confusion about the difference between having it easy in just lying and now having to be honest and not knowing how... all hard, but he is a better man for being honest. Now he just has to realize that you are worth MORE than any other woman and he has to show you that double time now.... if he doesn't then I for one don't think he is able to be poly and quite frankly I see no reason for you to stay and waste your life...

early days yet though... you are doing great and a remarkable woman to even consider working on this. You are obviously okay without him. Be proud! and at the end of the day, if he doesn't pull his socks up and you leave, be proud of that too. You have a responsibility to yourself and your boy to show how a woman deserves to be treated. How everyone deserves to be treated.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:29 AM
TheMessInQuestion TheMessInQuestion is offline
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There are a number of points that I'd kind of like to clarify or address, but I don't think this is really the place for it - this is whimsey's, so I'll fade into the background again...

One thing, though, whimsey - 'mess' is a perfect username for me, and we both know it.

Headed home now, as I said I would be. Heart full of love for whimsey, as it always is.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:45 AM
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Here's hoping you grow out of you name mess.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:50 AM
vodkafan vodkafan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Here's hoping you grow out of you name mess.
...and hope you grow into a true Mr Whimsey
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