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  #11  
Old 09-30-2010, 12:33 AM
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River River is offline
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I think I'm getting a little more clear. But it really does take some quiet empathetic reflection to grok the whole seeing *anyone* mainly in terms of "a sexual object," since I've always apparently been wired to blend sexual desires and intimacy with all the other aspects of intimacy -- e.g., emotional, intellectual, spiritual.... That doesn't mean that I haven't had a lot of crotch-centered Ye-Ha! juices flowing upon seeing a beautiful, sexy person (of either sex) -- I have. But all of that energy is always somehow wanting to fruit in the heart center, if you know what I mean. There's a kind of circuitry that the body wants, a flowing together of all our aspects--e.g., sex and loving. That's how I see it right now, anyhow. And it's like crators on the moon. They are there when you look and see them.
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2010, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by River View Post
I think I'm getting a little more clear. But it really does take some quiet empathetic reflection to grok the whole seeing *anyone* mainly in terms of "a sexual object," since I've always apparently been wired to blend sexual desires and intimacy with all the other aspects of intimacy -- e.g., emotional, intellectual, spiritual.... That doesn't mean that I haven't had a lot of crotch-centered Ye-Ha! juices flowing upon seeing a beautiful, sexy person (of either sex) -- I have. But all of that energy is always somehow wanting to fruit in the heart center, if you know what I mean. There's a kind of circuitry that the body wants, a flowing together of all our aspects--e.g., sex and loving. That's how I see it right now, anyhow. And it's like crators on the moon. They are there when you look and see them.
The "sex object" thing for me was, I think, a subconscious desire to avoid intimacy. Why? Because I didn't feel worthy. There are many facets of the person I am, that I have really struggled with accepting. Things I really used to hate! I didn't really value myself highly. So, being scared of intimacy, all that was really left was a sex drive.

I guess my relationship with my ex changed that. For the first time I really could see and value the wonderful things about me, because she valued them so highly. Things I knew that I loved about myself took on a new significance. And made it easier to accept the other facets. Because she accepted them too.

Over time that feeling of self-acceptance and self-love eroded to a degree, but I'm really in touch with it again now. Redpepper has posted before that you are your own primary, and I agree. I've never felt as committed to being my own primary as I am now, because I feel totally worthy of love.

This is why I feel impelled to break down the last significant barriers to intimacy in my heart.
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Old 09-30-2010, 01:07 AM
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Wow, that's beautiful!

However, I'd caution against an approach that involves an intention to "break down the last significant barriers to intimacy in my heart." I understand the spirit of the intention (it's one I share), but the words evoke a subtle kind of self-violence. I propose, instead, that you love those barriers, embrace them in a warm loving acceptance, but see through them such that they disolve because they are no longer necessary or useful, because they are not what or who you really are.

Folks like Jack Kornfield -- http://www.jackkornfield.org/home.php -- and John Welwood -- http://www.johnwelwood.com/ -- have been among the most important guides in my life in learning this (so much as I have), as you shall see if you were to read some of their excellent books. Both men are buddhist meditation teachers AND psychotherapists. Wise and generous souls!
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:03 AM
RGee91 RGee91 is offline
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hmmm, this is an interesting discussion
I have very little to add to the current topic, just wanted to make my presence known
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:59 PM
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Hello and welcome, RG.

Mind if I ask what your sexual-affectional orientation is?
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2010, 08:36 PM
RGee91 RGee91 is offline
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Hey River. I'm gay. Always have been, don't even know what it's like to be attracted to women. That's why this conversation is so interesting to me. I don't really know what it's like to 'discover' your sexuality, so to speak. It's just always been.

anotherbo, I was wondering, have you ever been attracted to male friends before?
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:59 PM
anotherbo anotherbo is offline
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anotherbo, I was wondering, have you ever been attracted to male friends before?
Actually no. There used to be a big disconnect in my head between wanting men in the general sense, and wanting any one specific guy. Also practically all of my male friends have been more like activity partners than people who I felt close to. The only times (before just recently) that I had any interest in a guy was when I felt like he was trying to get in my pants, and that only happened to me a couple times.
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:42 PM
RGee91 RGee91 is offline
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how did you react when guys tried to get in your pants?

And if a relationship develops between you and a guy, are you more looking forward to the sexual aspects, or emotional?

I ask because when I first started dating, those things were separate, and mostly still are, though I'm working on it. If I liked a guy, I would shy away from jumping his bones too soon, however if I got in a guys pants early, I tend to not care much for them. There have only been few exceptions for me...
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Old 10-02-2010, 04:56 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Hi, I'm not a gay man, but I cant resist a thread with "gay bi queer" in the title!

Actually I often feel like a gay/bi man in a female body, so...



Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherbo View Post

From a very young age I was attracted to girls; I remember buying jewelry (a nickel each!) from little my sister to give to two different girls I liked in the first grade.
That's so cute!

Quote:
In the fifth grade, I discovered my mother's cache of Playgirl magazines and made a startling discovery: although I didn't have much use for men's bodies in general, I found one part of them very exciting. Especially when it stuck out like that! And even many years later, I remember saying to a friend, "I'm not really attracted to guys, but there sure is something sexy about a hard cock."
Mmmm, a hard man IS good to find!

Quote:

This is where I'm at too, River. My thought is, if I can find even one gay/bi friend, I should be able to connect to a larger gay community here. I squandered one such opportunity recently; I ran into an openly gay man I knew from a theater performance years ago. We talked briefly, he seemed quite interested in me (and I found him way more attractive than I had years ago), but I was in a hurry, and though we talked about having coffee sometime, we didn't exchange numbers or make a plan, and he may or may not be in town this winter. Maybe its better though; since I'm mostly wanting to connect to a larger community, he might feel used if he helped me do that and we didn't end up dating for long.
Awww, if you like each other, you could have a lover/friend, as well as a possible "in" to the community. I don't see any "using" in there, just connection. I hope you run into him again soon!

Quote:
There is one other man who seems unusually interested in me on karaoke nights as well; I'm thinking he might be gay, but again I'd feel a little bad exploiting his interest to connect with others.
Who are these others? Just take 'em one at a time when you can find 'em!

BTW, you said you want to connect with men emotionally now, whereas before you were just more into the cock. My gf and I joke about how we'd be content with each other sexually, but... sigh... boys and their darn sexy cocks. One must put up with a lot of lame guy crap (bad communication abilities mostly) just to get to play with those yummy cocks.

I must say, after 30+ years living with a straight vanilla man, it's so damn refreshing and easy to be in a LTR with a woman (even tho she's trans). This is in reference to typical male/female communication styles, and .... present company excluded, of course.

River, you're so eloquent, it's a pleasure to read your posts.
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  #20  
Old 10-02-2010, 05:20 PM
anotherbo anotherbo is offline
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Well, its only two times I've been approached that I didn't feel an uncomfortable vibe, Raze. Both of those times I let it happen, but the sexual contact wasn't too great.

I get what you're saying about quick sex vs. holding off a bit. Generally I'm trying to go slower now, as I'm really looking forward to the emotional aspect fueling the sex. That's what seems to really turn me on these days, connection.

But I might be overdoing it a bit! Two nights ago I met a woman I really liked, who was very into me. After hanging out a couple hours we had our heads together, and she said something that gave me a strong urge to kiss her. I resisted it, and told her about it; I had told her earlier I wanted to go slow. She said, "That tells me we're gonna kiss." I said, "I'm sure we will soon, but not tonight."

Now I'm thinking, that was just as much a mistake as going too fast. Kissing her in that moment would have felt very natural. But I held back, worrying that my willpower would crumble entirely. Seems like I'd be better off just relaxing into the natural trajectory of an interaction, not trying to steer it one way or another.

Anyhow, I'm sure I'm gonna be just as spastic with men as I have been with women lately! I've blown several attractive possibilities; the only bright side is that the opportunities keep showing up at a gratifyingly steady pace.
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