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  #81  
Old 07-08-2010, 10:27 PM
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Karma Karma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clairegoad View Post

So some learn better communication skills, start talking... no communicating with their spouse, and develop a deeper, more meaningful relationship...
This.

This is what started us down the road from me cheating on Mohegan to the two of us actually addressing our issues with each other and our relationship.

Communication can be hard sometimes. It's well worth the difficulties, though.
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  #82  
Old 07-08-2010, 10:30 PM
jkelly jkelly is offline
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Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
There hasn't been anybody in this thread who has used it in that fashion.
Hm. How would you feel if you were reading a message board wherein someone used the formulation "cheaters/polyamorists" to describe bad behaviour? I would hope that you would call that person out on lumping together two groups that don't belong together, even if it was only an accident of phrasing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutumnalTone View Post
The objection is to both cheaters who use the term "poly" as cover and to swingers who use the term "poly" as cover.
Swinging is a much older, more established and on the order of fifty times larger community than polyamory. They have a wealth of resources, clubs, events, and much greater name recognition. I suspect that the problem of swingers mis-identifying themselves as poly- is close to non-existent, especially as compared to, say, serial monogamists doing so, and yet they get brought up in these conversations as if they are some kind of problem group.
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  #83  
Old 07-08-2010, 10:37 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by jkelly View Post
Hm. How would you feel if you were reading a message board wherein someone used the formulation "cheaters/polyamorists" to describe bad behaviour? I would hope that you would call that person out on lumping together two groups that don't belong together, even if it was only an accident of phrasing.

HMA says (and you quoted him)

Quote:
cheaters/swingers posing as poly
not "cheaters/polyamorists" = bad behaviour.

Please point out exactly where someone "lumps together" cheaters and polyamorists in the context of describing bad behaviour.

So far the only place I can find where someone refers to "swingers" as a euphemism for "polyamorists I don't like" is in YOUR post.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 07-08-2010 at 10:42 PM.
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  #84  
Old 07-08-2010, 10:57 PM
jkelly jkelly is offline
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Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
Please point out exactly where someone "lumps together" cheaters and polyamorists in the context of describing bad behaviour.
Did you mean "cheaters and swingers"? If so, the context here was someone "posing as" something else. That's not usually seen as good behaviour!

If you do mean "cheaters and polyamorists", I brought that up as a hypothetical as an analogy for why I found the phrasing problematic. To be clear, I don't think anyone said anything bad about poly- people, I think that we shouldn't be being unkind to swingers.
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  #85  
Old 07-08-2010, 11:31 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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I've been trying to find a better way to express my point without offending, Autumnal, Karma, YGirl and others have done a great job helping me in that way. The thing is, I said what I meant, and I can't think of another way to put it that's accurate. Please read YGirls post again as it's dead on; I'm not denigrating swingers at all - hell I'm not denigrating cheaters, lol. Violet and I *could* have been considered swingers or "open poly" or just plain slutty in the past. With this new situation, thigs are going to be a lot more closed for us, and Lana and Adrian can decide where they land and work with us on that.

Regardless, the problem is exactly as these other members have stated: Cheaters and swingers posing as Poly, misusing the term, etc. That doesn't mean they're "bad people" or even involved in "bad behavior" (I'm not here to judge cheating, each case has it's own points of merit and points of view). I'm saying that when these people use the term so loosly, it waters down a term that is all we "poly folk" have to differentiate ourselves from more sex-oriented non-monogamy lifestyles. That's all i was saying, nothing more, nothing less. In that context, yes - it bugs and even kind of offends me. Not because "bad people" are claiming to be poly - many or most or ALL of them are p[robably GOOD PEOPLE. But they're skewing "our" term and giving "other" people the wrong idea about polyamory, and that affects MY relationship(s) when we have to relate to the outside world.

Hope that helps - I'm trying to roast marshmellows here, not poor gas on a fire, LOL.
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  #86  
Old 07-09-2010, 05:33 AM
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MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
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Default Cheating instead of poly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkelly View Post



That said, people who are looking to cheat, for whatever reason, .
This is a cut and paste from another thread that hopefully can add to this topic. If not, sorry guys

I've had an affair in the past and am now in a poly relationship. So here is my theory on why people chose the hidden path as opposed to the open path. This theory is based on experience.


Why would people decide to cheat instead of have a poly relationship?

1) - its way easier. Communication and understanding is strictly between the two people involved.

2) - It has the added excitement of "getting away with something". Who hasn't done something because there was a thrill in it being wrong or enjoyed keeping a secret.

3) - It is a self limiting entity. The functions of the relationship are very limited. "I can't come over and mow your yard because your husband will kick my ass but we can meet somewhere and fuck!"

4) - they can be emotionally limited so you don't have to commit beyond your own needs. "It's not that I just want to fuck you, but really we have our families to think about. I don't want you to lose everything."

5) - it can come and go without impacting a family or social network. There are a lot of affairs that happen without anyone knowing about them.

6) - there is a belief that the participants are at least trying to be faithful or shield their partner from the information that they are not adequate in all areas.

7) - they can be terminated with less effort because "what we are doing is wrong"

8) - your parents will probably never know


Why would someone want poly vice cheating?

1) - Poly encourages you to grow as a person where affairs make you digress into irresponsibility and self denial of reality.

2) - Poly acknowledges and addresses the pain and emotions of your partner where affairs play people for fools; this is probably the greatest source of pain for those betrayed.

3) - It has the potential to become a fulfilling dynamic that widens family structures and generate more support and love for everyone involved. Affairs have a tendency to destroy families and severely damage everyone involved from spouses to children.

4) - It can set a positive example of communication and understanding for people around you.

5) - Poly relationships can increase love for everyone involved; affairs take something away from people whether they know it or not.

6) - You can be free to openly proclaim love to people around you. Affairs can become logistically exhausting and brutally stressful.

7) - Poly relationships can end with friendships and deep connections intact. Affairs usually end with total severance of ties and anything positive gets lost.

8) - Once your parents realize everyone is ok, they can often accept and be comfortable with the dynamic. Most parents would probably have a hard time hanging out with the person you are having an affair with…of course they probably wouldn't know.


Want it mathematically?

Affairs = short term gain, long term pain

Poly = short term pain, long term gain


Unfortunately I am a person who seems to need to learn by experiencing consequences. I have experienced a lot of consequences in my life; enough to know who I am in a way I never have before and I am no longer a boy in a man's clothes. I have lost what most would define as "everything". I have no excuse to repeat mistakes I made in the past. No excuse…full fucking stop. Any repeat of previously learned lessons is not because "it just happened". The repeat of negative things I have done would indicate an ill person. I am healthier than I have ever been.
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  #87  
Old 07-09-2010, 06:01 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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Quote:
You can be free to openly proclaim love to people around you. Affairs can become logistically exhausting and brutally stressful.
This is my mostest fravritist thing ever.
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  #88  
Old 08-11-2010, 01:50 AM
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myelsewhere myelsewhere is offline
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Default The "I'm not cheating" conundrum

This is a spin-off from my introduction post, in which I mentioned that DH has encountered the issue with meeting females in bar/social situations who are all over the idea of seeing/hooking up with him, as long as they think it's cheating. Once he mentions that I know, and that I'm okay with it, then they're not interested or even tell him outright that it "weirds" them out.

Not to say that this isn't a problem for females either. Even in my short time exploring this lifestyle, I have had two guys tell me they can't do the "married woman" thing, even if it's okay with my husband. Of course, one of them made out with me in the parking lot still, but that's another story... I think it was more of a "I'm not interested in a married woman" than an "I'd do you if you were cheating" thing.

I guess it weeds out the ones who are looking for drama or an illicit affair, but nevertheless it's frustrating. Mostly frustrating to DH because he is/we are new to this and, combined with a not-so-liberal geographical location and a lack of many social outlets, he feels like he is at a disadvantage.

Why do you think people act like that about the cheating vs. poly admission? What are your experiences with it? Have you ever lied and said you were cheating just to get some action? (DH wouldn't go that route, just curious about the experience of others.) If so, how did it end up?
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  #89  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:12 AM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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I've encountered the same sort of thing--women on OKC approached me (and poly was explicit in my profile) and acted interested until it was apparent that my wife did know about what was going on, generally, and that I was communicating with them, specifically. There was a good deal of interest that got stifled at that point.

I suspect it has a great deal to do with those folks being unable to wrap their heads around anything other than dysfunctional monogamy. They've managed to rationalize their intent to cheat with somebody else's husband and have come to terms with that. Coming to terms with a poly entanglement is a foreign concept and more than they're prepared for.

Perhaps it's due to feeling safe that the relationship wouldn't get very serious because it would be an illicit affair and the man isn't likely to want to shack up or anything like that. They can get the passion and excitement they crave without the demands of a serious, daily relationship. When that potential relationship turns out to have the possibility of becoming a serious, daily thing, it's beyond their comfort level.
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When speaking of various forms of non-monogamy...it ain't poly if you're just fucking around.

While polyamory, open relationships, and swinging are all distinctly different approaches to non-monogamy, they are not mutually exlusive. Folks can, and some do, engage in more than one of them at a time--and it's all good.
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  #90  
Old 08-11-2010, 10:36 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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My boyfriend recently admitted to me that he's trying to get over some guilt at being "the other man" in my life.

I've not given him reason to feel this way, and he has stated that he knows it's an irrational feeling, which he believes is due to societal conditioning. So, we're working on it.

So ... even when you do find a good one, be prepared for the other end of the spectrum!
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