From "Kitchen Table" to "Parallel"

First, a bit of background.

I was verbally abused by my father on a daily basis when I was a child.
He was an unpredictable powder-keg, singing me to sleep one day, screaming at me for not wanting him to read to me (I had an above-average reading comprehension almost from day 1) the next.
As a result, and I've only become aware of this in recent years, I either have great difficulty or just outright can't form close connections with other men.

My entire social circle for the last ten years has been female, and I've gotten pretty good at speaking the language and understanding their thought processes.

I should also mention that I'm an extrovert...except around men.

So when my wife suggested we open up, I was iffy about it at best.
But she assured me that our marriage wasn't going anywhere, that she wasn't looking for a replacement, and that it would be a great opportunity for both of us.

For the first year and a half, we were both casually dating.
She discovered an interest in kink and the wonders of being an available married woman in a world of horny men looking for available married women.
I got to date a few people and have a couple of new experiences.

Then my wife met her current boyfriend, and really started to get attached.
And then they started hanging out here all the time, because he has a roommate.
And then my wife started scheduling stuff for the three of us to do together, and really pushed for the "kitchen table" model of poly.

That was four months ago.
So after four months of him regularly spending the night here and the three of us regularly going out together, I've realized something:
His presence triggers my childhood abuse.

It doesn't help that my mom and my wife are very similar (hair color, eye color, favorite color, etc.).
After four months, I've realized that I'm constantly on edge around him.
I can't relax, I get tired much faster, and I don't sleep well when he's in the house.

These past two weekends, I was even able to go Scientific Method on it.
Last Sunday, my wife and I hung out with her best friend from high school, whom we've both known the entire time we've been together.
It was fun.
We drove around town listening to music, we went shopping, then came home and watched a movie.
I was totally fired up, and if I hadn't needed to be up early the next morning for work, I would have loved to keep the party going.

Yesterday, my wife and I hung out with her best friend from high school again.
But this time, my wife's boyfriend was also present.
I was distracted the entire time, I was listless and unable to really get into the conversation, and I was dead-tired by 7 PM.
In hindsight, I also notice that I reverted to my childhood sense of humor (dry one-liners instead of my current conversational humor).

I've never sought therapy to deal with my abuse because it's only really become apparent since we opened up.

The fact that he's over all the time has also meant that scheduling OUR time has been a much bigger struggle, given that we try to set aside a day for married-time and he spends the previous night at our house.

I broached the subject of going "parallel" with my wife last night, and she acted like I had gut-punched her.

Is it unfair to my wife to ask that she keeps her other relationships out of our space?

Why not work on your issues instead of trying to make the world adjust to them? Someone on this forum likes to put it this way: it's better to put on shoes than to carpet the world. Don't you want to be a better person? don't you want to be free from this internal childhood prison? Don't you want tto be able to be around all genders of people without having an anxiety attack? Don't you want to finally say "fuck you" to your abusive father, "good riddance" to what he turned you into? Or do you want to keep living in the world your father built?

It's about time to do some adulting.

That said, there is nothing wrong with wanting parallel. It's the reasons why you want it that needs your concern. Especially if your wife's boyfriend is a good person and hasn't actually done anything wrong except have a penis and breathe the same air as you.

I'm a firm believer in people having a safe space and getting to choose not to have others in that space, no questions asked. So, while it may feel unfair to her because you've let it go on for so long already... It's not really, as long as you understand that she too would have that right if/when you want to invite people over AND that she will be gone a lot more to focus on her relationship with her boyfriend. Which means you might miss things you won't enjoy missing - various events she decides to attend with him instead of you, time with her friends you do enjoy that are spent with him, etc.

I think roommates are a bullshit reason for not using someone's place, too. I mean, she lives with someone else and they have no problem being at her house. Unless he's actually sharing a bedroom and you guys have a spare?

You definitely should be seeking therapy as well, though. Discomfort with such a large section of the population just because of your history with one individual and nothing to do with the people themselves isn't healthy.

CaptainCarrot said:

After four months, I've realized that I'm constantly on edge around him.
I can't relax, I get tired much faster, and I don't sleep well when he's in the house.

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Jealousy can do this even without childhood abuse, at least I believe that's my case. Don't know if that info helps you any. I guess it will be tricky to separate the two of them.

I broached the subject of going "parallel" with my wife last night, and she acted like I had gut-punched her.

Is it unfair to my wife to ask that she keeps her other relationships out of our space?

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IMHO it's not unfair to want your private space private. I would not be happy with a partner having someone around say every other day, even if it wasn't my metamour.
But, if my partner was very social he might have a problem with this. We would have to search for ways how to make both of us comfortable.
As this will be a complication for your wife, your interests clash, plain and simple. Fairness doesn't help much here. You're two people with clashing interests, and you'll have to seek some kind of agreement, middle ground, balance.
It doesn't have to be fully parallel or fully kitchen table. Maybe you're happy to have him around once in two weeks. Maybe you're not. You figure out. Just don't think either/or.

First things first:

- Does your wife even know you were verbally abused by your father? (Did you father abuse you in other ways that you may be repressing, and even if not, have you ever sought therapy for the abuse that occurred?)

- Have you explained to your wife that something about her boyfriend (his maleness, his looks, certain characteristics... what?) brings up uncomfortable feelings and memories for you because of your discomfort being in close proximity to men in general?

- Prior to opening up the marriage, did you recognise that your wife has distinct traits that remind you of your own mother... which, in conjunction with your negative feelings about her boyfriend, tend to exacerbate the memories of childhood trauma? (Clearly, the combined dynamic of wife/mother + boyfriend/father brings this into sharper focus.)

- And if so, have you admitted all this TO your wife?

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As a first step, I agree with those who believe YOU have some work to do on yourself, regardless of what style of poly you and your wife ultimately choose to practise in future.

I'd suggest counselling in order to heal from childhood abuse and help you connect to your own masculinity and that of other men, without feeling threatened by their mere presence. (Incidentally, my ex husband has similar issues due to a violent alcoholic father.)

This appears to be less about the boyfriend himself, his traits, or his and your wife's conduct in your home, than it is about your own issues. THEY ought not be "punished" because of your past and subsequent, learned hangups. And I don't mean that in a judgemental fashion.

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Having said that, I am with the other posters, above, who believe you're within your rights to state your boundaries/limits when it comes to sharing time and space with a metamour in your own home.

It seems to me like you weren't given much of a choice, but had "kitchen table poly" thrust upon you by a wife in the throes of NRE. Yes, it's cool to be gracious and sociable, as you'd probably hope your wife would be towards your partner/s, if the shoe was on the other foot.

However, this is your HOME and your life, as well as your wife's. You are not in a relationship with her OSO and if you wish to limit time spent with him, you have every right to request that. It's no more "unfair" to her than it is for her to EXPECT you to spend every waking moment with the two of them together.

Nothing much is going to be achieved unless you two TALK, however. You need to compromise and come to an agreement about time spent by yourselves as a couple -vs- time spent all together as a "V" -vs- time your wife spends alone with her lover at some other location (if it can't be at his place, then at a friends' place, hotel or wherever.)

You each need to define your definitions of "kitchen table" and "parallel" poly, and think about your expectations... then relay these to each other in a calm manner. Neither of you are mind readers. If it helps, you may wish to engage a therapist or counsellor in this process. Your wife may seek her boyfriend's input... but when it all comes down to it, this is a decision you two have to make, as it regards what transpires within your shared home.

I agree that you could do with some personal counseling, but so that YOU feel better.

I also agree that you have a right to personal space. The home is yours just as much as it is your wife's. Yes, you may spend more time apart from your wife while she is out with her boyfriend, but that's just the reality of it.

I am sorry you struggle.

I see two problems.

1) Past abuse that wasn't dealt with that might need addressingm -- which you've only realized recently because her BF reminds you of your abusive dad.

2) Hinge of 4 mos. in NRE pushing kitchen table poly and you not being all that into it. Maybe because #1 or maybe also from other reasons.

I've never sought therapy to deal with my abuse because it's only really become apparent since we opened up.

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I'm sorry you dealt with that. Are you going to be seeking it now? Does wife know about all this?

The fact that he's over all the time has also meant that scheduling OUR time has been a much bigger struggle, given that we try to set aside a day for married-time and he spends the previous night at our house.

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If she's been hogging all the days with her guests -- her BF, her HS friend, etc? That's not fair.

If you need (more time on your own in your home alone), and (more time alone in your home with your spouse)? Could ask spouse for what you actually need directly.

Have you told wife that the calendar for the last 4 mos seemes unbalance to you. And asked wife to help you work on a more balanced schedule? And that it needs to include

• time for you alone in the home
• time for her alone in the home
• time for (you+her) alone in the home
• time for your guests to visit the home (whether she is there or not)
• time for her guests to visit the home (whether you are there or not)

Cuz you could ask her to have him over so much, but then bring gaggles of other people in. And you STILL don't get the down time you need to work on your past abuse issues or more time alone with spouse.

I broached the subject of going "parallel" with my wife last night, and she acted like I had gut-punched her.

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Well, you gave kitchen poly a try. Perhaps for her sake more than anything else. You can tell her it's not working out for you like this. And that you prefer to try parallel poly for a time.

It's fair to tell her. She's not a mind reader.

If she's disappointed about it, she's disappointed. You aren't doing anything mean TO her. You aren't telling her to break up with him. You are stating what YOU can and cannot handle at this time.

Is it unfair to my wife to ask that she keeps her other relationships out of our space?

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For how long? In what manner?

This home is your space. And it's her space too. You both may have to come to terms with how you want to share this space.

You can ask that she not have guests over every day of the week.

You can ask that she not bring over her BF when you are around. Limit it to her guests days and you can make yourself scarce.

You can ask her not to have any people at all over for X time while you are working on something.

But to ask her to NEVER use her home to have guests over forever? You can ask it. But I don't know how that would work long term.

Even in parallel poly you may have to be around the BF sometimes and manage to be civil/polite. You might be better able to handle that -- polite greeting and the door if he's bringing her home from dinner out for example. That's less time with him than hanging out together all day.

But you still may have to address the past abuse so you can heal from it.

And then my wife started scheduling stuff for the three of us to do together, and really pushed for the "kitchen table" model of poly.

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I don't know what that means. Does she ask you if you want to do X? Like asking for your willingness? Or she just schedules it and expects you to do it whether you actually want to or not?

I could be totally wrong here... but I wonder if you spouse is triggering some of this?

Your dad sounds like he wanted everything his way and if he didn't get it, he would blow up. If he wanted to sing to you and you accepted it, he was happy he got his way. No blow up. If he wanted to read to you and you did not want any, he was not happy that he did not get his way and would blow.

So now spouse wants kitchen table poly and her BF over all the time and group activities and so on. Has she checked in with what you might want or is this just "put on you" like your dad used to "put stuff on you?"

Is that why you seem worried about wife being "gut punched" when you told her you wanted to stop doing kitchen table poly? You are worried it will turn into a blow up from her?

Galagirl

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

My wife was aware of my past abuse, but neither of us really knew how deep it went or how much of an effect it had had on me until recently.

Mostly because neither of us really have any male friends, so until her current boyfriend we hadn't been required to regularly interact with other men...so no long-term sample data.

Hello CaptainCarrot,

Does your wife know your reason for asking her for parallel poly? Does she know it's because you are being triggered? Did you tell her that? If she is aware of that, it might make it easier for her to accept.

I am thinking that one of the main reasons for her upset is, that for four months you were tolerating kitchen table poly, and she probably thought you were okay with it, and expected that it would continue. Her NRE may have added to this expectation, she may not have noticed that you were having a problem. So, when you asked for parallel poly, it took her by surprise. Plus she now has the unenviable task of telling her boyfriend that you don't want him around. I'm not saying you're not allowed to ask for that, I'm just speculating about why that was hard for her to hear.

Is there any chance of a compromise? For instance, maybe he could still come around sometimes, but you don't have to be in the same room, and you don't have to participate in activities with him and your wife.

I do agree with the others who suggested you get some therapy/counseling for the damage from the past abuse. You need a chance to do some healing, for your own sake (as well as for your wife's).

I hope the two of you can work something out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

I would definitely seek counselling, but I agree that this is your home that you live in and you have a right to want your home to be a safe space for you. To make things easier, maybe ask for a shortish period of time where he's out of your space when you are home, but with the goal of slowly adding it back in to see what you can be comfortable with while you work through therapy?

I think it's reasonable for her to not have to NEVER have her partner over, and it might make sense for you to compromise and make a point to go make some plans and give them some time home alone. But again, it needs to be an amount that still will allow you to not suffer, and for you to work on your shit with the end goal being that you can start to be comfortable around men.

Also... why can't she go to her b/f's place just because he has a roommate? If you're home then it's not like they're getting privacy. So why can't they deal with the roommate being the one who is around instead of you for a while?

Is it unfair to my wife to ask that she keeps her other relationships out of our space?

Not at all.

He has a roomate. In essence so does she. I would say it is unfair of her to assume you would be alright with this. She can act gut punched all she wants. She will have to do her part to come to a compromise.

If we remove the childhood issues for a second and just go with trying something for 4 months and deciding that’s something you don’t like wouldn’t that be enough ???

To me this sounds like yet another example of someone pushing things a bit too far.

She pushed you to open up and you were iffy at best. This new guy has a roommate so she pushed you to allow him in home visit and overnights.

Because of the NRE and the amount of time they want/ need she felt compelled to push for the “kitchen table “ style poly that way you’re techincally included.

Here’s what I find interesting he’s over all the time and you struggle to get 1 day together ...and she feels gut punched when you want to make changes. To me it looks like she’s trying to show horn every thing to make things work for her and the BF.....you’re suppose to go work on your own shit/ issues. I say fuck that unless that’s what you want.


How long have you been married ?? Do you have children ?

Have you read about poly Hell ? I’d say from reading this there is intrusion and probably displacement going on.

If you need a link PM me.

This isn't necessarily an 'either/or' situation.

You can and should ask for space in your own home from him being there a lot.

And, you can work on this trigger from your past. Now you are more aware of it, and it's helping cause some issues in your life, it's a good time to work on it.

Best of luck.

There is nothing wrong with requesting your home to be your space free from her other relationship.

Butch requested that same thing years ago.

So what if he has a roommate. They need to figure something else out

I agree with a lot of other things posted. One thing that hasn't been mentioned, though, is that she might be anxious about having to triangulate the situation to him about why things have been different, and she might have a concern about how to answer any questions he has, or getting stuck in the middle of describing your needs and boundaries when she doesn't fully understand them herself.

Could you tell him your boundary yourself? I realize men make you very uncomfortable, and that might not be realistic. But lessening the triangulation might make the situation easier on her.

AutumnLeaves said:

I agree with a lot of other things posted. One thing that hasn't been mentioned, though, is that she might be anxious about having to triangulate the situation to him about why things have been different, and she might have a concern about how to answer any questions he has, or getting stuck in the middle of describing your needs and boundaries when she doesn't fully understand them herself.

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Now he should be worried about hypothetical anxiety??? Isn’t as simple as hey I / we may have over stepped our bounds here my husband needs a safe space we can’t hang out at my place for the foresable future. Why would have to go into details of his need or boundaries beyond that?

Could you tell him your boundary yourself? I realize men make you very uncomfortable, and that might not be realistic. But lessening the triangulation might make the situation easier on her.

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Let me get this straight she pushed opening up this wasn’t something he signed up for or asked for. Reluctantly he gave it the old college try and things became difficult after several months of intrusion into his home and space. He gave a couple foot and she took a couple miles. TO captaincarrot: what’s the valve add in your life for all this stuff you have to endure or deal with....the intrusion, the loss of time with wife, the triggers and flashbacks ?? Because yeah it we wouldn’t want your wife to have an uncomfortable conversation or to make her feel uncomfortable.

Personally I don’t think this is going to be a hard conversation at all. It’s like busting teenagers drinking in the basement they know they overstepped having their “party “and they except that the party is now over.


I can’t quite understand why everyone is hung up on him fixing him from the intrusion instead of eliminating the source of the intrusion. To me this is very analogous to telling the mono partner who’s time and attention has been cut in half to go get a hobby.

As opal pointed out this isn’t an either or situation however this situation walks into his house ...walked into his kitchen. He should have the same right NOT to have to deal with it ....TO not have to spend thousands of dollars dredging up his past just so his wife can screw her Bf in the next room. I think he has that right.

dingedheart said:

I can’t quite understand why everyone is hung up on him fixing him

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Please re-read previous half-dozen posts.

Raven as always thanks that was helpful.


So.. if he would have said I tried this for 4 months and just hate it ....I don’t like coming home and have this guy around all the time and NOT attach some child trauma or thing with his father that would have been ok and enough ??? Or would everyone still suggest he needs to get help to be ok with this ???


Dag: OMG what kind of lame excuse / reason did butch use on you ....I hope to hell tried to get him some therapy for that ??? Can’t believe what unreasonable prick butch was/ is ( kidding )


I’ll say it again in a different way. THIS problem / situation came to him...it’s was more or less forced onto him he may have been perfectly happy not dealing with his past abuse.

The food analogy was used here frequently in the past explain variety and tastes. Here’s a situation where captaincarrot is being forced to eat something he doesn’t like. Something that’s linked to a tramatic experience in which he’s got sick eating it as a child. He’s requested that food not be brought in the house or put out around him. However that’s not good enough for some here ....they think he should pay for some type of therapy to learn to enjoy said food. I’m saying fine if he wants to but too fucking bad if he doesn’t.
“ hey honey this really is a win win ....I get to bang my bf in the next room and you get to wade through the muck of you childhood during you newly freed up time. This is going to work out perfectly “. What fool wouldn’t be excited about that ???


Would it be bad form or too forward to have the wife and bf kick in for 1/3 of therapy / copay ??? Which brings up a good topic if couple has set up an agreed upon budget for poly activities and then as a result being poly one partner needs therapy and or drugs should that be taken out of the poly fun budget or out of the general health budget?

DingedHeart,

Woah, that's some passive aggression in your response, which I don't quite follow because ALMOST every person who responded on this thread has said in no uncertain terms that captaincarrot IS within his rights to NOT have his wife's other lover foisted upon him in his/their home for unreasonable amounts of time, if at all.

MANY others, myself included, see it as a two-part issue (the parts being only vaguely related) but that for the OP's OWN SAKE, if nothing else, he might wish to address his childhood issues that prevent him from bonding with or having friendships with (including even being in the company of) most other males.

I think most only honed in on the childhood trauma issue BECAUSE captaincarrot devoted at least half of his OP to problems HE associates with the fallout from his early experiences.

Once again though, most everybody here seems to believe - that regardless of whether or not he chooses to seek therapy or some other form of healing - he SHOULD and does have the right to set boundaries and seek reasonable compromises that do not entail his wife calling all the shots.

UPDATE:

By mutual agreement, Melody's boyfriend will no longer be coming over while I'm here, and outings will be separate for the foreseeable future.

Also, my health insurance provides 6 free therapy sessions per year, per issue, so I've scheduled an initial appointment with a therapist who happens to have an office less than five miles from our house.