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  #51  
Old 07-29-2010, 08:59 PM
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I think its so not right to respect what people want to do with their bodies. Trans friends of mine complain about the same thing from the medical establishment. Also, how come we can decide if we want a tattoo or want breast uplants, but not decide to gave our selves adjusted so as to not have kids?!
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  #52  
Old 07-29-2010, 10:02 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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I was thinking about this some more on my way home from work, and I would like to make it clear that I do realize that this "CF" and all the definitions associated with it is just a label and nothing more. I do not "own" the "true" CF identity any more than any one of us "owns" the "true" poly identity. However, it is a label I choose to ascribe to myself and I feel that it is important to articulate exactly what it means in that context. So, I thank each and every one of you for taking me to task on this. I have had quite a bit of practice with this "articulation" on the CF forum and it is great for a change to be able to use it in a discussion that is not "preaching to the choir".
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  #53  
Old 07-30-2010, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jokutus View Post
My wife and I are childfree and we recently opened up our marriage... With our childfree lifestyle, it seems to make being poly extemely easy. I was wondering how many people have decided to live the childfree/poly life. We are lucky because we are friends with 2 other poly/childfree couples so we all pretty much click as a "family" unit. Anyone want to share their thoughts?
I sure am glad to be without any children at this point in my life, and have had experiences that put me face to face with parenthood, so no, I'm not child-free. I am, however, grateful to have done my worst bumbling around with life (I hope) without the responsibility of caring for and shaping another's life.

That includes this first five years of my marriage, and all the growth that gave us as people. I may be ready to have a child when I finish school, but will not accept having a child until I have accomplished that goal and have some flippin health insurance at least.

If it's not in the cards, both of us can accept it. I find myself not recoiling entirely these days, and that's something for me. I have always been very sure that the right time had not yet come, although I have always wanted to be a parent, a really good one.

I am sure everything is more complicated with more humans involved, so I'm sure poly is no exception when it comes to the complexity, stress level, unique challenges, and victories parents experience.

When and if I have a kid, I want to be passionate, not just accepting of the responsibility. I tend to not want to do something at all if it really means something to me and I don't have the proper tools to do it justice just yet.

-R
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  #54  
Old 07-30-2010, 01:34 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
I am not out to convert anyone to my way of thinking; I just like it when I do find other people who already think the way I do. This holds true for other things besides being CF.
I completely understand the desire to find like-minded people. But it seems, with all this raging confusion about the definition of CF, that just like with poly, it's much more direct to say "I think like this" and avoid the label. Because here are a bunch of us using that label who don't think exactly like that, or who have a slightly different definition for that label. If we were to all attend a social group for CF folk, it would turn out that maybe we aren't as like-minded as the group title may have implied.

I had never really considered the label before this thread, I just always went around saying "I don't ever want kids. I think they're great and a lot of fun, but I sure am glad when they go home!" ... Usually "I'm never having kids" was enough to establish whether someone else thought the same way, or at least to open the dialog.

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Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
Again, I invoke the "virginity comparison": If you had sex when you were unmarried and say, 17 years old, then you decided that sex before marriage is wrong, you're not a "born-again virgin". Once you have sex, your virginity is GONE - BYE BYE! The same goes for being CF. You can't un-ring that bell.
The virginity analogy fails. Yes, it's true that with being CF and being a virgin, once you pop that cork, you can never get the genie back in the bottle...

But a person is a virgin right up until the moment they have sex. Why can't a person be child-free right up until the moment they change their mind?

People change their religions, sexual orientations, even genders. Something like an attitude towards child-rearing seems much less fixed than those.

And while you've guaranteed that you'll never conceive your own biological babies, there's always adoption, hence it's still possible for even you to change your mind, unlikely as you say that is.

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Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
If someone gave up a kid for adoption or had a kid that died or whatever and they want to call themselves CF, I can't really stop them, and if they don't tell me, then I have no way of knowing, but if I found out, I would certainly wonder why they find it necessary to identify themselves to the world as CF.
Perhaps I'm missing the specifics of "already think the way you do." People travel many paths to reach the same places. Perhaps I'm just less concerned with a person's history than you are.

To me, regardless of what someone has thought or done in the past, the important thing is how they think and behave now. My husband has a daughter, and yet every time we hear a kid crying, we look at each other and make some comment about how grateful we are never to have to deal with that.

I don't want to raise any kids. I suppose if I was more hardcore CF, I never would have entered a relationship with a man who had a child. I know there are people for whom that's a deal breaker. I'll say this much: watching someone grow from 13 has done nothing but strengthen my resolve never to repeat the experience!!!

I'd like to say that, like anything of this nature, CF comes in a spectrum, with yourself at one end, myself a little more towards the middle, and nymph clear across the other side.

*giggles* YGirl, you're like, a 6th degree black-belt CF
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Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 07-30-2010 at 01:37 AM.
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  #55  
Old 07-30-2010, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariakas View Post
They don't have children. This means procreation in my world.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/vi...m_en_us1309267
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_us1309267#m_en_us1309267
pertaining to adults who do not have or live with children:
I'm assuming that's to be interpreted as "who neither have nor live with", as opposed to "do not have or do not live with"

Quote:
And the wiki page for shits and giggles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childfree
I'm relieved by this line from the wiki page:
Quote:
Childfree individuals do not necessarily share a unified political or economic philosophy, and most prominent childfree organizations tend to be social in nature.
So the fact that YGirl is spoutin' off about the "real, true CF" people is just the usual hot air

I can see the point though. A social group of child-free adults guarantees you'll never hear "sorry, I have to cancel our plans, the sitter is sick" and will never lose friends to parenthood. And from a social stand-point, in my mind, it makes no difference what a person's history is, whether they have always been child-free or only became that way after some life event made it so.

I can also see the value of a general description from a dating perspective. It's vital that two partners agree on the desire whether or not to have kids if they plan to form a lifelong bond. In that case, child-free and child-less are very different things, and if you're child-free, you want to make sure your partner isn't just incidentally child-less, but that it's been a concentrated effort to be so.
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  #56  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:49 AM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
I'm assuming that's to be interpreted as "who neither have nor live with", as opposed to "do not have or do not live with"
Most CF people that I know hold to a philosophy that applies to the larger world beyond themselves. That philosophy being a commitment to not add any more children to the the world as there are plenty of people doing that already and there seem to be a lot more children in the world than capable adults that can care for them. Given that view, it's entirely reasonable for a person not to be considered CF if they have indeed added a child to the world even if that child was put up for adoption. Because that person did indeed have a child and added it to the world, even if they now live free of the burden of caring for that child.

For many, being CF is a world view of keeping societies sustainable, not just a narrow view of how they want to conduct their own lives without the burden of children.


(note: I do not consider caring for children to be a burden, but it seems that many people seem to view the motivations of being CF to be about children being considered a burden in life, which is why I used that term here)
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  #57  
Old 07-30-2010, 12:38 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
The virginity analogy fails. Yes, it's true that with being CF and being a virgin, once you pop that cork, you can never get the genie back in the bottle...

But a person is a virgin right up until the moment they have sex. Why can't a person be child-free right up until the moment they change their mind?

People change their religions, sexual orientations, even genders. Something like an attitude towards child-rearing seems much less fixed than those.

And while you've guaranteed that you'll never conceive your own biological babies, there's always adoption, hence it's still possible for even you to change your mind, unlikely as you say that is.
I was using the virginity analogy when it comes to someone who had a kid and gave it up for adoption, or for someone whose kid died, or for someone who somehow already replicated (I'm using that as a clinical expression to differentiate between the biological act of spreading one's DNA and the sociological act of parenting) but does not have the child in their possession for whatever reason. I was NOT using the virginity analogy when it comes to someone who was "CF until they changed their mind".

And I'm pretty sure I'll never want to adopt, because it's a long involved process, and at age 40, I continue to become more CF every minute that goes by. This is usually the age where women really start to get baby rabies if they haven't had it so far. It feels as though I'm getting anti-baby rabies. When I was younger, and people would say to me "you'll change your mind one day", I thought it was possible that I might, so I just waited... and waited... I'm still waiting. I'm still waiting to wake up one day and have this overwhelming desire for a kid. It ain't happening here. I feel NOTHING. As I type this, I am searching through the bowels of my soul for one last feeble glowing ember of unrequited maternal desires, and there is no such thing. I know people want to believe I'll change my mind so they can say "See? I told you you'd change your mind". I used to use that adoption line just to get people off my case. "I can always adopt." But, deep down I always knew it was just a line.

So, I'll say it once more: It is very insulting to repeatedly be told that I'll change my mind, so please stop forever. Go find someone else to "bingo". If you don't know what that means, please google "CF Bingo".

Last edited by NeonKaos; 07-30-2010 at 01:42 PM.
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  #58  
Old 07-30-2010, 12:42 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
I'm relieved by this line from the wiki page:


So the fact that YGirl is spoutin' off about the "real, true CF" people is just the usual hot air
You need Wiki to tell you that? Good thing we have Wiki...

And I addressed the part about "real, true" CF people. You obviously didn't read that or chose to ignore it. It makes me wonder why I even bother replying.
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  #59  
Old 07-30-2010, 12:43 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
Most CF people that I know hold to a philosophy that applies to the larger world beyond themselves. That philosophy being a commitment to not add any more children to the the world as there are plenty of people doing that already and there seem to be a lot more children in the world than capable adults that can care for them. Given that view, it's entirely reasonable for a person not to be considered CF if they have indeed added a child to the world even if that child was put up for adoption. Because that person did indeed have a child and added it to the world, even if they now live free of the burden of caring for that child.

For many, being CF is a world view of keeping societies sustainable, not just a narrow view of how they want to conduct their own lives without the burden of children.


(note: I do not consider caring for children to be a burden, but it seems that many people seem to view the motivations of being CF to be about children being considered a burden in life, which is why I used that term here)
At least someone around here gets it right, and as usual it's you.
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  #60  
Old 07-30-2010, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
That philosophy being a commitment to not add any more children to the the world as there are plenty of people doing that already and there seem to be a lot more children in the world than capable adults that can care for them. Given that view, it's entirely reasonable for a person not to be considered CF if they have indeed added a child to the world even if that child was put up for adoption. Because that person did indeed have a child and added it to the world, even if they now live free of the burden of caring for that child.
That's a good point, I hadn't considered that aspect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
So, I'll say it once more: It is very insulting to repeatedly be told that I'll change my mind, so please stop forever. Go find someone else to "bingo". If you don't know what that means, please google "CF Bingo".
I can understand how it could come across like I was saying you'll change your mind. That wasn't my intention. You've made it very clear, and I completely believe you, that you'll never want babies. I think the point I was trying to make is that it's always possible to change your mind, not that I thought you might.
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