Help! Mixing business with pleasure. 3 sad friends.

Hello all,

I'm a new 27-year old female member who is queer and poly, and going through an interesting one and looking for some advice!

Main players:

me, I'm very open and poly, and am generally more attracted to women then men, although I've been with my current mono male partner, C, for 3.5 years.
C: my fiancee, he's super mono although I've always encouraged him to go out and get some if he wants (he doesn't.)
N: both our business partners and C's best friend. We all run a B and B and event space together and live on the same property. I know you all know where this is going..

C and me: I really love the guy. Got engaged in February, were supposed to get married this October but we had some rough patches and since we just started the business in July, it just really wasn't a good time for us to get married then. We're still working on it.

C and N: have been best friends and roommates for 8 years. Big adorable bromance.

me and N: didn't really know each other before we started the business together then it was a very intense 24/7 work and living environment from April - on. From day 1 there's been a weird sexual tension between us.

The Story
C is the first person I've been in a relationship with where the fear and "what ifs" really melted away. He really gets that I need to be with women. That's always been part of our vibe since day 1, and he supports that in theory AND practice (amazing, eh?) so I was feeling pretty good about things. At the end of the day, me and him have a totally different relationship than any I've had with anyone before. It's solid, I feel like I could raise a family with him. We're not compatible on everything but he's super chill and respects me. We feel equal. We don't have that super passionate, sexual, I just wanna jump you love, we never have, but maybe that's why it's so solid.

I've always been with women sexually, I've also dated women while I've been with him but I've never really clicked emotionally with any woman while we've been together (actually, it's only ever happened once..) so me with women around him was always pretty casual. C was always super cool about it and if there were ever any practical issues like, where will you sleep tonight, we always resolved them maturely.

Obviously, feelings are complex, but we were always pretty good about discussing things and setting boundaries. I even slept with a guy once in Ireland.. that was harder for him but nothing life changing. He never tried to set restrictions or boundaries on my behaviour, we would just see what happened and then have discussions about it.

We started the business with N in April and it's been super intense but it's going really well! As I mentioned before, there's always been a weird sexual vibe between me and N. For example, the first day we started the business we had had a few drinks and he tried to convince me to sleep with him to "get to know me better". It was kind of weird and I wasn't into it and told him that. We had a talk about it with all three of us the next morning and N felt very remorseful and apologized. There's been a couple other situations like that but nothing ever happened out of respect of C.

Recently, our vibe has changed a lot and I realized I was super into him as well. It's the type of attraction where when we're in the same room together you can cut the tension with a knife. It's especially awkward because we at first tried to pretend like nothing was up, even to ourselves, especially around C.
I'm a very sexual person and I've always prided myself on my independence. Freedom is extremely important to me. Coming out as queer I think is very relatable since it was me feeling for years like there was something sick and wrong with me, which society and previous partners encouraged me to feel. It's an awful feeling and I vowed to myself that I would never feel that way again. On top of that, I know I'm poly, although that is not something that I've worked through for as long as being queer, but I know it's something that I really want and possibly need.

Anyways, the more me and N hung out the more I realized he's a super cool guy and basically one thing led to another and we ended up sleeping together (twice) and even worse.. cuddling (once). Obviously I was super open to C about it, even before it happened, and also told him right away every time. At first he was ok with it, but we all thought at first it was a purely sexual thing with no emotions attached, which is now clearly not the case.

Now we're in a really weird dynamic and everyone is sad, worried everyone else is sad and just in a really negative spiral. Me and N are worried about C not feeling good. I think N and me are more on the same page when it comes to being poly but poor C is just not into it. I would really love to explore a poly dynamic with them, I think it could be a really beautiful and soul-expanding experience. C is trying really hard but is just at the end of his rope. I know it's really hard to have a mono/poly situation with three where it feels like there is some sort of power imbalance. This might also be a "Vee" situation (sorry, still learning terminology!) since the other two guys don't have any romantic attraction to each other. It's also so new and fresh for me and N and we're trying to put the brakes on it but also not overly define what it is that we feel.

I guess I'm asking if anyone has been in a similar situation, what you think the best course of action might be or if you could share any resources. It's just all very hard right now. Lots of talks and angst and sadness.

I'm trying not to overthink everything. I love C and I really hope it isn't a situation where something amazing has to change because we're not compatible in some way. I can bury it, I think, but I just feel like I shouldn't have to. But obviously he also shouldn't have to feel unhappy about what I'm doing.. it's complicated.

Thanks for the advice!!

I'm sorry you struggle. I don't know if this helps you any but here's my thoughts...

Reduce your load. Do not get married any time soon. Nothing wrong with long engagements, esp if the business is having problems and there's other stress to deal with. Wedding stress piled on top? Not a needed stress right now.

For example, the first day we started the business we had had a few drinks and he tried to convince me to sleep with him to "get to know me better".

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Not appropriate behavior toward you ( a business partner), toward you (his best friend's intended) or toward his best friend. I will assume all that was resolved before you guys became lovers.

Why is cuddling worse than sex share in this scenario? Was the model you guys trying to practice supposed to be (NSA sex with N) and then (love share and sex share, and marriage with C)? And now that there are feelings you want to change the relationship model to something more like a poly V?

If so, ASK to change the model. Clarify what you are asking of them. Ask clearly and directly. "I would like to try a poly V where I share both love and sex with each of you. Are you guys up for that?" and proceed like you always have... discuss and sort it out.

Now we're in a really weird dynamic and everyone is sad, worried everyone else is sad and just in a really negative spiral. Me and N are worried about C not feeling good. I think N and me are more on the same page when it comes to being poly but poor C is just not into it.

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If everyone is sad doing this "unnamed V" thing where you are the hinge and the two guys are the end points of the V? Stop doing it then. Accept this is not gonna be a working thing. It has to be a 3 people yes for it to fly ok -- and you do not sound like you have 3 people on board here.

C is trying really hard but is just at the end of his rope.

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That is not a joyful sounding "yes! I want to be in a V!" to me. It's not kind to let him keep on suffering at the end of his rope.

You could make a decision to end this suffering. HOW you end it? Whether you choose to break up with C, or N, or both... that's up to you. But to keep going with C and N in a 3 people thing where nobody is really happy in it? That doesn't make any sense.

I think you could ask if they are up for a poly V. Just to be sure that's been clearly stated.

If C really is not into that? You could decide

• Either stick with C, and accept he can only deal with you dating women here and there. He sounds like he is (at best) ok with a primary-secondary model where he is primary and whoever else are casual sex partners for you.
  
• Or stick with N since he's more poly compatible and (presumably) he is ok with your dating both men and women.
  
• Or be with neither one. Seek more compatible people in general who are NOT also roomies/coworkers.

Figure out what open model it is you want to practice.

But whatever you pick... resolve in future to not date people who also live/work where you live/work. Then your home/work/romantic areas aren't so piled up on each other exacerbating the stress. It's sounds like you all are in one space and keep bumping into each other -- so nobody gets a break from all this.

we were always pretty good about discussing things and setting boundaries. I even slept with a guy once in Ireland.. that was harder for him but nothing life changing. He never tried to set restrictions or boundaries on my behaviour, we would just see what happened and then have discussions about it.

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If that is so? Have faith that actions rooted in good character and rooted in past experience with conflict resolution with C will yield best outcome in this new situation even if you don't see how right now. Even if the best outcome turns out to be to break up with C.

I encourage you to have to conversations you need to be having with C and with N anyway.

Lean INTO it. Not away from it. Sort your stuff out. Once you sort out the romance stuff, move on to sort the roomie and business stuff.

Galagirl

In your position, Chandra, I can see many different areas of potential concern regarding this developing love interest:

- How will taking another lover affect your current, stable relationship with your fiancé, C? What does this mean in regards to your future wedding plans and/or plans to have children with him? If you went ahead and married C, where would this leave N?

- How will it affect C emotionally - since he may feel (as the mono partner) he has already been super accommodating to your needs; understanding that you not only desire women, but that you're also poly and therefore occasionally choose to sleep with, and/or have relationships with, women and men outside of your relationship?

- How will it affect the guys' friendship with each other - since they've been best friends for many years and are super close - yet are presumably straight males who are in no way sexually attracted to each other? This state of affairs would seem to preclude a triad, but there could be potential for a "V" or other configuration, depending on whether you and/or N becomes involved with someone else as well.

- If the stress of this situation ends up fracturing any "dyad" within this group (including the two men's platonic friendship), where does this leave you (any/all of you) in terms of the business, which is presumably the major or only source of income?

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Remember, in polyamory, communication is key. I think you three need to sit down together and get some open dialogue flowing, if you haven't already. Each of you needs to think about what you want as individuals, as separate dyads AND as a group; where you realistically see this situation heading; how it might be able to work in terms of jointly operating a business while living together etc.

Put all your expectations on the table. Have C state his feelings and any boundaries he may have, so that both you and N are in no doubt as to where he draws his own line in the sand... then decide if you have enough common ground to make the emotional work worth doing.

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As a point of comparison, I am currently in a "V" with my two (essentially mono) partners, Jester and Boho. While my situation is somewhat different to yours, it has a similar overall theme. In our case, my partners were intimately involved with each other (in a FWB arrangement - i.e. no commitment or expectations of monogamy) before he and I got together - and they remain best friends.

At the time we "met" online, I was friends with both of them separately, but had no clue they were involved with each other in any "in person" sexual sense. The difficulty arose when Jester and I fell hard for each other, effectively ending his and Boho's ersatz relationship. At that time, I'd never even contemplated the notion of polyamory - and Boho was so deeply in love with Jester she simply couldn't deal with my presence in his life and chose to cut me out of her life altogether by blocking me on social media and refusing to engage. Meanwhile, those two stayed in contact, and after a few strained months, they were able to renew a close, albeit platonic, friendship.


Boho and I have so many interests in common and such similar taste it's almost scary. Perhaps it was inevitable that eventually a spark would ignite between us, independently of our separate ties to Jester. Before anything more could happen, other than acknowledging feelings were developing between us, I did make sure Jester knew where things were heading and more or less sought his "blessing" to take it further with Boho, which he gladly gave. In fact, he was genuinely happy that we loved each other (too).

This put me in somewhat of a quandary, as I'd never identified as poly, nor could I see myself being comfortable in the event of Jester and Boho striking something up between them once again, as hypocritical as that sounds. Yet I soon discovered this is exactly what Boho wanted: some kind of loving/physical intimacy between all three of us, even if she and Jester didn't ever have actual intercourse and weren't actively "in" love with each other.

It was very difficult for her to envisage or accept having a sexual relationship with me alone, knowing I could and would be with both her AND Jester - say, in the event of us travelling or living together. I realised Boho still had residual feelings for Jester and she claimed it would be unfair emotionally to be in a situation where we three were physically together in the same location, and be "excluded" from participating in intimacy such as cuddling, kissing, touching and/or other sexual activities.

Because of my love for her, I agreed to consider working towards a "triad" type of relationship, potentially involving group sex/threesomes. Jester had already said he would be cool with either scenario (a mono relationship with me, or one that included occasional "play" with Boho). He has a lower libido than either of us "girls", so I believed him and still do. However, my in-built aversion to group play (a hangover from a bad experience in my youth) and my insecurities about those two having previously been together AND living closer to each other, began to drive a wedge between us three, particularly Boho and I.

The triad idea was shelved for a number of months, then made a reappearance in the lead-up to my first in-person meeting with both of them together (in April this year). On the first night all three of us were together, we attempted a threeway scene after which I freaked out - and again talk of a Triad came to a screeching halt. Despite a little cyber sex "play" as a group, I've kept my relationships with Jester and Boho separate ever since.

That said, I do plan to move to their country as soon as I'm practically able to do so, and the notion of living together in the same household hasn't been completely abandoned. At this stage, I am feeling much more secure in Boho's love for me, and trusting where her motivations are concerned regarding Jester, and this has allowed me to open up to possibilities I'd never been comfortable contemplating until very recently.

I'm just going to be blunt.

What the hell were you thinking? Sleeping with your fiance's best friend and roommate? When your fiance is mono, to boot??

Yeah, of course "poor C" feels like shit. He's not even poly, and you basically threw his whole life into a blender because you couldn't keep it in your pants.

Dunno how you're going to fix this, or even if you can, to be honest. Best-friendship is sacred, and you and N completely blew that out of the water because you got horny. The fact that you're still feeling entitled to be with N despite the obvious heartache it's causing C is not a good sign.

I'm not even going to get started on the obvious "Never sleep with your business partners" aspect of this... That's just such a non-starter that it shouldn't require comment.

chandra said:

As I mentioned before, there's always been a weird sexual vibe between me and N. For example, the first day we started the business we had had a few drinks and he tried to convince me to sleep with him to "get to know me better". It was kind of weird and I wasn't into it and told him that. We had a talk about it with all three of us the next morning and N felt very remorseful and apologized. There's been a couple other situations like that but nothing ever happened out of respect of C.

Anyways, the more me and N hung out the more I realized he's a super cool guy and basically one thing led to another and we ended up sleeping together (twice) and even worse.. cuddling (once).

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That's not a "weird sexual vibe," that's N being horny and totally inappropriate with his best friend's fiance. You shot him down, he persisted, and eventually you caved.

"One thing led to another" is code for "I made a decision with my genitals instead of my brain." So much for your so-called respect for C.

Dunno how you're gonna dig your way out of this. Maybe if you and N can grow up and start acting like business partners instead of horny teenagers?

I can bury it, I think, but I just feel like I shouldn't have to. But obviously he also shouldn't have to feel unhappy about what I'm doing.. it's complicated.

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"I shouldn't have to?" Why, because you're somehow entitled to fuck whomever you want, regardless of the consequences it has in the rest of your life and the life of someone you claim to love?

It's only complicated because you broke two cardinal rules of dating: don't sleep with your partner's best friend (at least unless they full-heartedly encourage it, which C obviously didn't), and don't sleep with your business partners.

That you'll have to stop fucking N is pretty obvious if you want to save either your relationship with C and/or your business. Then you can start the difficult job of making restitution to C for fucking up his home life and business.

Look... I'm sorry if the harshness of my tone hurts your feelings. But c'mon, seriously. This is one of those times where you need to wake up and realise you fucked up, and now begin the process of reparations. There's no chance of having a relationship with N without destroying both their friendship and your business. Now, maybe this whole thing has made you realise that you and C aren't really compatible for marriage, and that's okay too, but then walk away completely and let them heal their friendship. Stop fucking up their relationship!

Hello chandra,

I'm sorry that you find yourself in such a difficult situation, I don't have any suggestions of what you could do. It does seem apparent that the three of you need to sit down together and discuss the situation, probably more than once. Not only do you need to discuss the relationship issues with them, the three of you also need to figure out what's going to happen as far as the business is concerned. It might be hard to all three live together and work together when you have this owie relationship thing going on. The simplest course of action is to break up with N, but if you do that, how will N feel about living and working with you every day? You could certainly try, but I have a feeling this business won't make it, or at least that N will have to move out.

You do have the option of continuing to attempt a V, and just hope that C starts feeling better about it, and that you and N start feeling better about it as well. If you do that, I suggest taking things as slow as possible, try to leave things where they are and give everyone some time to process and hopefully come to feel better. If you can put some distance between you and N, for awhile, by all means do so. But whatever you decide to do, make sure you discuss things thoroughly as a group, and that you are all agreed on what will be tried.

Very difficult situation.
Sympathetically,
Kevin T.

OP, this wasn't an inevitable situation that just "happened" beyond your control. You actively helped cause this mess.

Being poly usually isn't a secret code for sleeping with whomever, whenever. You always have to think of the consequences. Why would you drive a wedge between two friends like this?

A happy V configuration is not likely to result from this. A hard lesson to learn.

chandra said:

I can bury it, I think, but I just feel like I shouldn't have to. But obviously he also shouldn't have to feel unhappy about what I'm doing.. it's complicated.

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It's really not all that complicated.

As others have said: Poly, like freedom of speech, is not a license to do whatever we want without severe social consequences. Just because freedom and independence are important to us doesn't mean that we can pursue any and all sexual attractions. This is as true in poly relationships and it is in mono relationships. I think one of the greatest misconceptions about poly is that because we prioritize freedom and authenticity, we are free to follow all sexual leads. The emotional fallout from foreseen or unforeseen transgressions is just as great in poly relationships as it is in mono. You did choose to repeatedly fuck and cuddle C's best friend because of the insane sexual attraction. I'd imagine that we've all been there in one way or another and have all learned that insane sexual attraction can get people into a lot of hot water. There's a reason that kingdoms are lost over this kind of thing. You don't have to bury your feelings, but you do have to take responsibility for your behavior and your choices.

Chandra, Hi and welcome to the forum.

So from day one you had an agreement of having a somewhat open relationship at least for females partners and then it morphed to include males or you just took a liberty and it became fully open so to speak. And it was understood upon engagement it was going to stay that way correct ? I guess what I’m getting at is he knew what he was getting into. That being a poly like relationships with women and possible casual sexual affairs with men but not excluding the same with men.


Personally I’d put off all wedding plans on indefinite hold. The last thing you need is untangling that too and who really needs a divorce on the books ...plus weddings are damn expensive. God I wish I had that money back.

chandra said:

C and N: have been best friends and roommates for 8 years. Big adorable bromance.

We started the business with N in April and it's been super intense but it's going really well! As I mentioned before, there's always been a weird sexual vibe between me and N. For example, the first day we started the business we had had a few drinks and he tried to convince me to sleep with him to "get to know me better". It was kind of weird and I wasn't into it and told him that. We had a talk about it with all three of us the next morning and N felt very remorseful and apologized. There's been a couple other situations like that but nothing ever happened out of respect of C.

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This event and other situations didn’t dent the bromance ?? Or the business partnership ??
So I’m guessing that N knew that you had an open relationship and everything is fair game and if you agree everything is ok.?

Nothing happened out of respect for c .....Did he voice strong opposition or any opposition to such a relationship ? If he did or he didn’t what changed for you and N that you decided to move forward ?

Now we're in a really weird dynamic and everyone is sad, worried everyone else is sad and just in a really negative spiral.

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Is the business suffering from this ?

Me and N are worried about C not feeling good. I think N and me are more on the same page when it comes to being poly but poor C is just not into it. I would really love to explore a poly dynamic with them, I think it could be a really beautiful and soul-expanding experience. C is trying really hard but is just at the end of his rope.

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What is c doing in terms of trying really hard ?? Reading the recommended books and articles ...listening to pod casts ...seeking counseling ...taking up the recommended new hobby ( my favorite ).

You realize c is out on an island pretty much on his own in terms of what he can share and with who. Does he have any family or other friends he can talk with ?

I know it's really hard to have a mono/poly situation with three where it feels like there is some sort of power imbalance

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What’s the power imbalance you feel ?? Could you explain that a little.


And reading some of the other comments I’m not sure when being in an open relationship and having such freedom that roommates and friends became a protected class? It doesn’t sound like there were any discussed limitations in that regard. And how is this any more horrible than any poly bombed person. Maybe knowing what great people they both ( Chandra and N ) are could actually help one deal.
Dealing is dealing...mental gymnastics is mental gymnastics.

I know a guy who’s screwing his gf and the girlfriends mother somehow they learned to deal...its a little weird sometimes they get competitive but other than that no major issues. Hey if they can do it why not everyone right.

Dinged, if you can't see how a situation where a man is bedding his girlfriend AND her mother could go down the toilet in a split second, I don't know what to say.

There is a difference between responsible poly and burning the house down.

This is a really pathetic situation. Talk of seeing a mess and willingly walking into it.

Being poly doesn't mean you have to sleep with everyone you are attracted to or that not having a sexual relationship means hiding that you are poly, just like being mono doesn't mean you sleep with someone every time you are horny while single. There will always be appropriate and inappropriate people to get into relationships with. Horniness is not the sole factor.

Even with people who are poly, there are relationships that are off limits. Friends, roommates, business partners often feature on such lists along with relatives, colleagues and so on. For good reasons - the relationship bleeds consequences into other aspects of life. N is all three AND C is not poly.

So far C appears to not have limited you in any manner. Now he seems unhappy, but still has not limited you. I suppose the deciding factor is how far the entitlement to "I just feel like I shouldn't have to" goes in the absence of an explicit refusal. I mean seriously, you are saying you don't feel you should have to avoid a relationship that can cause tremendous hurt to your partner if you want to have that relationship? Where is the love?

Also worth considering is the situation from C's perspective - well being on domestic front, emotional/friendship front and livelihood all resting on the relationship between two people who have so far not shown the least inclination to self-denial or maturity or regard for the impact on him. Getting into something without much thought to glaring factors of concern and seeking advice for how to handle a mess after it is created is not maturity or regard. It is damage control. C doesn't have a whole lot to be confident about in the ability of you two to not uproot his well being on multiple aspects of his life.

It is sounding like you took him for granted to the point you didn't think you owed him any sensitivity. And then too, you are not inclined to do what is very likely needed. He understood you were into women, was supportive, then you were with a man, he was distressed but sucked it up, then you were with his best friend and roommate and business partner. He coped and now you are involved deeply and he is not comfortable and you don't feel you should have to deny yourself what you want. You have simply defined and redefined your "freedom" in the relationship leaving C to cope how he can till now he can't. Poly involves consent of all concerned. C is sounding like he coped and now he can't - this is hardly everyone being onboard.

A word of caution here. If he is disturbed and STILL not asking for any accommodations from the two of you, it is possible that he doesn't believe in changing you and he will accept you as far as he can. Will he talk when he can't? Or will he simply reach a point of no return? Or will he try to cope no matter what given the business and you could push your freedoms on his happiness infinitely?

In my view, you need to talk with C. Figure out where he is and decide if you can live with his comfort zone or if you need to move on, what happens of N if you want to be with C and so on. And how any of it can be done in a responsible manner given your living, loving and working situation.

Dinged, what part of "everyone is sad, worried everyone else is sad and just in a really negative spiral" and "C is just not into it.... C is trying really hard but is just at the end of his rope." Sounded like the ray of sunshine you posted?

I suppose if the woman and her mother were both fine dating the same man and everyone was on board and consenting, what other people call messy would be irrelevant. But does this story sound "fine" at all?

dingedheart said:

reading some of the other comments I’m not sure when being in an open relationship and having such freedom that roommates and friends became a protected class? It doesn’t sound like there were any discussed limitations in that regard. And how is this any more horrible than any poly bombed person. Maybe knowing what great people they both ( Chandra and N ) are could actually help one deal.
Dealing is dealing...mental gymnastics is mental gymnastics.

I know a guy who’s screwing his gf and the girlfriends mother somehow they learned to deal...its a little weird sometimes they get competitive but other than that no major issues. Hey if they can do it why not everyone right.

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I don't think anyone created a protected class, I think you misunderstood the point. I think GalaGirl's term "messy people" is the best description of what posters are talking about. Each relationship has to define "messy" as they see fit though I think most people would include business partner. Likewise your mother and daughter example is a bit of an outlier because as possible as it is it also seems particularly fraught with potential issues because of the family relationship

anamikanon said:

Dinged, what part of "everyone is sad, worried everyone else is sad and just in a really negative spiral" and "C is just not into it.... C is trying really hard but is just at the end of his rope." Sounded like the ray of sunshine you posted?

I suppose if the woman and her mother were both fine dating the same man and everyone was on board and consenting, what other people call messy would be irrelevant. But does this story sound "fine" at all?

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You have to read Dinged's posts in the bitterest, most cynical voice you can muster in your head. Not that I blame him, given the back story, I just don't understand why he hangs out here if he dislikes poly so much - doesn't seem conducive to moving on.

anamikanon said:

Dinged, what part of "everyone is sad, worried everyone else is sad and just in a really negative spiral" and "C is just not into it.... C is trying really hard but is just at the end of his rope." Sounded like the ray of sunshine you posted?

I suppose if the woman and her mother were both fine dating the same man and everyone was on board and consenting, what other people call messy would be irrelevant. But does this story sound "fine" at all?

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I thought people were a bit too harsh on the OP with “what were you thinking” and blah blah blah. C didnt get totally blindsided ....N has some responsibility remember the bromance? I did ask for background info on agreements.
And lots of Mono go through a sad period ask shaya or Al. It was late last night so I don’t remember the time frame in which this period of darkness is in.

Refusnik said:

I don't think anyone created a protected class, I think you misunderstood the point. I think GalaGirl's term "messy people" is the best description of what posters are talking about. Each relationship has to define "messy" as they see fit though I think most people would include business partner. Likewise your mother and daughter example is a bit of an outlier because as possible as it is it also seems particularly fraught with potential issues because of the family relationship

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Aren’t Messy list subjective ? Isn’t the list graduated. Some people roommates/ housemates might not make the list were mom or dad might be at the top of the list. Doesn’t love and attraction sometimes just creep up on us ? Did C have a messy list ? When he slid the ring on her finger did he request an OPP or bring up the topic of the messy list ? When becoming business partners was the topic raised then?


Yes my example was an extreme outlier that’s the point. Take all wonderful principles of expanding love, free expression , growth, etc , etc .....the op mention a beautiful soul expanding experience and they can apply to everyone but that person because he’s a roommate and friend.

This is gala’s view on messy people or her messy list. It wouldn’t let me copy it from the quoted function.

I think there are enough people in the world to poly date without going after "messy people." Some are permanently messy. I do not need my spouse dating my mother, sister, or or boss. If he and my mom date? That's just too weird for a LOT of the family and yargh. If he dates my boss and he and boss fight or break up, I do not need them taking it out me and me losing my job. Why risk a mess like that? What joy does that bring? I want to lead a joyful and happy life. Not be enduring my life.

Some are temporary messy list people. Do not date kid's teacher while they teach kid. Too messy. What if they argue and teacher takes it out on kid when kid did not do anything? That's not right. Once kid moves on to another grade, and some times passes... then perhaps the teacher becomes "dateable" again.

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I don’t disagree with the concept or having an a messy people list. The thing I see is lots of hypotheticals. And when I posed similar hypotheticals it was met with “wait don’t you trust her.....you don’t think she’s a good judge of character. She’s not going to date a guy pick up one night stands and expose everyone to STD’s. Or your crazy to worry that she could be injured or killed by some sicko off the internet.” Yup that never happens.

Do you really think teachers would be that petty and small to take out a break up on a child? So then the opposite might be true too ...screwing the teacher insures your kid gets a good grade right? Have break ups been that volatile in your experience ....people that wrecked with pain they lash out at collateral people /innocent people ?

dingedheart said:

Aren’t Messy list subjective?

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Legitimate question here- are you being deliberately obtuse to make a point or did you just not read the part where I said "each relationship has to define 'messy' as they see fit?"

Yes my example was an extreme outlier that’s the point. Take all wonderful principles of expanding love, free expression , growth, etc , etc .....the op mention a beautiful soul expanding experience and they can apply to everyone but that person because he’s a roommate and friend.

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I don't see how there's any contradiction between the "wonderful principles" and pointing out that dating certain people is likely to be messy.

Hi Chandra

Yeah about the coffee.. Humm
You need it to kill/focus on something else besides the fog of NRE. If you truly want this to be poly or nonmon ...whatever u want to can it! Humm yeah.. As been suggested, please, don't have getting married within the next 2 yrs in mind.
Be very mindful of your Boyfriend's (C) feelings or you will end up with that other person.. Lol. Sorry.
But yeah... Just relax
Drink a good cup of whatever you like to kill the NRE fuzz with....I would think coming here was a great start... So do read, even if it's uncomfortable, and stay a while!

I am going to agree that it's a difficult situation to be attracted to your husband's best friend, who is also both of yours business partner. Add in you all basically live together and work together, so you're with both guys 24/7.

If you are a highly sexual person and your fiance is not, you obviously need more sex. I have never started a relationship with someone unless I was highly sexually attracted to them, and they were to me, at least during NRE. I know I have a high libido and am not going to deny it. I wouldn't date, much less get engaged, to a person I was not hot for and vice versa.

So, the pheromones between you and N were whooshing back and forth. You're not getting enough hot sex from your fiance, so things "happened."

Too bad C isn't supportive. This could be a nice V. You get steady commitment from one guy, and the sex/friendship you need from the other.

I see nothing wrong with renegotiating relationship agreements. Your fiance was OK with you fucking other women. You seemed surprised. But many guys in our patriarchy don't mind this, they think it's hot. Then you, being bi and poly, were also becoming interested in other men (seeing as you're not getting enough of the "D" from your fiance). Is he aware you're sexually frustrated with him, have always been?

I despise one penis policies. I also think a sexual mismatch in one relationship can be helped by getting more sex elsewhere. Heck, I don't think that, I know it, have experienced it. My nesting partner's libido is average, mine is above average. We have hot sex, just not often enough for me. She feels pressured to have more sex than she desires when I am not getting enough elsewhere. This makes her back away from me, she gets performance anxiety. As soon as I get enough elsewhere, she relaxes and oddly wants more sex from me!

I think very open and sensitive re-negotiations are in order. People change, relationships change. You might be able to make this work if C can feel safe expressing whatever his fears are.

I know this goes against the grain of what others have said.

Refusnik said:

Legitimate question here- are you being deliberately obtuse to make a point or did you just not read the part where I said "each relationship has to define 'messy' as they see fit?"

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No sorry ....stream of consciousness. Not intentional.

I don't see how there's any contradiction between the "wonderful principles" and pointing out that dating certain people is likely to be messy.

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It seems apparent from the op’s description of some of the facts in this case that she wasn’t actively looking for male partners. That in fact proximity and attraction ended up ruling the day. And we all no everyone’s messy list is going to hierarchical. Some people might have pool boy and cleaning ladies on the list because in their market those are really hard to find. I guess my point is at the bottom of the messy list there’s going to be a cut off and wouldn’t it be a shame to arbitrarily cut someone off from a spirit / soul expanding experience because they just sleeked onto the formal messy that was in a persons head.