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  #21  
Old 07-21-2010, 03:45 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Default What he said.

Ah, Mono. You're so much more helpful than me.
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  #22  
Old 07-21-2010, 07:21 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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I like what you have to say Mono. I think our friend here does want to move near her though... what of that? There seems to be a desire for more, but a threat to investing in more.
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Originally Posted by monopolylover View Post
as far as I know of the 'group' the guy who went back to mono, was a very casual hook up who never really invested much outside of just being a hook up. Another is more of a player who is more of the same as far as actual interest in her as a person. Another is more of just a friend who wants far to much for her to get into a physical relationship but a LOT of attention would fall entirely to that person if they were more open to who she is.
sounds like she has a whole lot of men just like you going on. Interesting. I have not been interested at all in men like this and don't understand how they would be interesting. I have found poly men to be giving, generous of the space and freedom I require and very understanding of my need for much love in my life because they want that too... the whole idea that there is some sort of competition is frankly just bizarre to me and makes no sense to the 14 years of poly I have experienced.

Mono tells me that he has felt like that but I have offered no indication that there is a competition to be my number one man as I am not looking for a number one man, a number one fuck, a number one anything. The people I date are all different and fill me with joy in and of themselves. I'm sorry, the idea that I am some queen bee and they are my workers vying for being top dog makes me laugh on one hand and rather ill on the other, because I SO don't want any of them to think that. I would disappear if it were like that and date none of them. Absolutely NOT interested... blah

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Originally Posted by monopolylover View Post
I have a pretty harsh stance on poly men because 99.9% of them have all been the same. I'm not saying that all poly men aren't like, "HA HA, I got that ass tonight sucker and can have it any second whilst you are away!" but,... well if there are, they are being drown out by all the noise from the opportunist assholes.
again! Blah, *vomit* who the hell have you been hanging out with and what on earth has happened to you and your relationship life that you have experienced this! That is just so wrong on so many levels to me. I'm sorry but I can only imagine that these men have low self esteem, no self worth, don't think they are worthy of love, respect, caring, compassion and a real relationship with a real person that has all these attributes. I feel sorry for them. They obviously really know nothing of what depth of relationship can bring. What it is really like to be happy for ones partner that they are having such a good time with another and that they can benefit by feeling good that they gave of themselves (compersion).

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Originally Posted by monopolylover View Post
I'm told, "oh he isn't as important to me as you are" or "he doesn't think of me the same way you do", but suddenly as I'm face to face with the person the reality of how they see things is obviously different from what my SO thought or was telling me.
ya, feeding you a line there. She is saying that to all of them too btw... wow, she doesn't seem to know much about poly. I think she should be saying she has an open relationship style of dating, that would clear things up nicely in my mind. Ties in nicely with the DADT policy she likes to up hold. I couldn't imagine telling any of my partners that I think of them more highly than the others! So unfair and untrue! I love them all for exactly who they are, fuck ups and all! No wonder you have this competitive thing going on!

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Originally Posted by monopolylover View Post
what is easy is always what is most corruptible.
got that right! Poly is not easy though, I worked with Mono for a year before we felt like we had all our needs met, no one was compromising and we were all happy in our position within our tribe. Then Derby came along and rolypoly and we adjusted again and continue to adjust to make sure everyone is getting their needs met. If we are doing it and are happy and others are, how can your belief in poly be true? I think what you have experienced is either very poor poly or not at all...

Quote:
Originally Posted by monopolylover View Post
Someone said earlier, and I agree, if a relationship is worth something, it takes hard work and sacrifice. So far I feel that my costs are justified with this person. Her other SOs might be assholes or command more attention/emotion later but as things are there is no static and I'm happy with her.
We have also grown somewhat together in this relationship. It's that 'rug being pulled out' feeling from a past of really bad relationships (mono and poly) and what I will feel If I become less to her among the SOs.

It has gotten to a point where those fears/annoyances are fading out.
Of course when ever I know that she is away with another there is an itch I can't scratch. So far that is a cost I can handle but I can't say for sure if I can always handle it.
Should I be able to say for sure? Because I don't know if 'yes' would ever or should ever be the right answer.

Is there something wrong with me?
no there is nothing wrong with you, you seem to be doing okay in this, besides thinking that you have to compete.

If you are all good then what are you looking for here? Not that I want you to go, but just wonder...

In a nut shell, considering you have been hurt before, I think in your case and if I were you I would do as Mono says... in the meantime I think I would be working hard at gaining confidence, self esteem and self worth and getting some old issues worked out... if you work on the old issues you might find the latter falls into place.

I certainly would not be investing in this woman if it were me, as she doesn't seem to have all her ducks in a row either. She has her own work to do it seems. I am wondering what she is hoping to accomplish if anything? How her seemingly casual relationships are working for her? and what it is she wants in a future with you? Who knows, maybe if you get all that sorted out it will end up just you too... in the mean time, I think I would be looking at your self and stop blaming poly for what has gone wrong in your relationships.. because it certainly seems you do.
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  #23  
Old 07-21-2010, 08:02 PM
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redsirenn redsirenn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monopolylover View Post
if this is just another "open" relationship then once again I'm in the position of "flavor of the week" and no matter how great things may seem, there is a good change another flavor will come along and I'm once again a feather duster who can be pulled out of the closet when and it the next guy doesn't work out.

You will always face this in relationships no matter what their structure. It is part of putting your heart out there.

I see the difference between that and polyamory but I've yet to see it in honest practice in those who claim polyamory.

Read this forum. There are lots of good examples.

As I've seen great failures in those who claim mono. I'm a pilgrim without a country. It has helped being on this forum though. I think My only problem is I don't care to play games and far to many people do when they are in relationships no matter what kind of relationships those are.
Too many people want their cake and to eat it to. The more I explore a relationship the more I find the biggest problems are always with filtering out all the bullshit and games.

I was talking with my sister about this yesterday. It is hard to "avoid" the games. Everyone plays games when getting to know and interact with other people. Society has placed rules on us, we place rules on us, etc. and we use them in this game we call life. Now, if you mean manipulation, maliciousness, or mal intent, that is another thing.

It is a confusing road, this poly or open relationship thing. I know this, and have felt some of what you are feeling. Still do at times. It may very well not work for you, but then it may. Regardless of what your definitions of "working for you" are, you will certainly get something positive out of it if that is what you are determined to do. You get out of it what you put into it and the mindset helps to shape the outcome for yourself and others. Otherwise, you can always choose to date only mono women, and that is perfectly fine too.

good Luck!
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  #24  
Old 07-21-2010, 08:56 PM
jkelly jkelly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monopolylover View Post
I have a pretty harsh stance on poly men because 99.9% of them have all been the same. I'm not saying that all poly men aren't like, "HA HA, I got that ass tonight sucker and can have it any second whilst you are away!" but,... well if there are, they are being drown out by all the noise from the opportunist assholes.
Not to be overly pedantic, but I doubt that I've met 1,000 poly- men in my life, and I've been in various poly- communities for many years now.

I'm kind of wondering if you've met any at all, given the description above. My partners are people who are, well, my partners. I am actually, you know, romantically involved with them; we go out on dates, do laundry together, make soup when someone's sick, go to family events, etc. The idea of my thinking of them as "that ass" is so outlandish... hm. Let me put it this way; I am reasonably sure that nobody I have ever dated would have dated me if I was the type of person who would think that. That also goes for the other people that they would date!

Further, I've also never had a metamour (lover of my lover) who I thought of as a "sucker". Why would I date someone who had such awful taste in partners? That'd be terrible.

I don't really know what's going on in your world, or in your head, but I do find myself wishing that you wouldn't describe it as polyamory, 'cause it sounds like some sort of weird misogynistic pissing contest instead of multiple honest romantic relationships.
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  #25  
Old 07-21-2010, 10:04 PM
monopolylover monopolylover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I like what you have to say Mono.what of that? There seems to be a desire for more, but a threat to investing in more.
That is still an on the fence issue for me. I would like to see her more often and she has expressed a want for that as well. My work takes me everywhere so where I live is hardly a solid need in the geosocial sence. But after considering some logical points you have made, I have to keep a clear head and see if this is really a poly, I'm with or a player/oportunist.
I have to make a correction. I have not met face to face with any of her other SOs, the instances I was speaking of were form every previous open or "poly" I've been with. Which is why the theory of non asshole poly men is more of a hypothesis with me at this point.

Another very important point:

I'm in the states and America in general is one bassacwards place as far as social maturity. I've spent a lot of time in Canada for work and even tried to immigrate there. The levels of Social and relationship maturity in Canada and Europe are profound compared to the US.
Even among very rural or poorer areas in Canada people keep their shit together a lot better. I can believe that there are polys there who may in fact be male and not assholes. I just never stayed there long enough to find out.
Without getting to into it, the place where my SO lives is one of the top three backward social scapes that the USA has to offer. Alternative sexual lifestyles are not welcome or tolerated and the average male in this area is the worse example of poor education and egomaniacle alphamale that America has to offer.

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
sounds like she has a whole lot of men just like you going on. Interesting. I have not been interested at all in men like this and don't understand how they would be interesting. I have found poly men to be giving, generous of the space and freedom I require and very understanding of my need for much love in my life because they want that too... the whole idea that there is some sort of competition is frankly just bizarre to me and makes no sense to the 14 years of poly I have experienced.
I have to ask because it is far to obvious.
Among all your SO's can you honestly tell me that none stand out so much that if you were given the decision to take just one on a trip you were never coming back from you would not be basing your decision on some random choice but rather your preference of who you would want?


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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
again! Blah, *vomit* who the hell have you been hanging out with and what on earth has happened to you and your relationship life that you have experienced this! That is just so wrong on so many levels to me. I'm sorry but I can only imagine that these men have low self esteem, no self worth, don't think they are worthy of love, respect, caring, compassion and a real relationship with a real person that has all these attributes. I feel sorry for them. They obviously really know nothing of what depth of relationship can bring. What it is really like to be happy for ones partner that they are having such a good time with another and that they can benefit by feeling good that they gave of themselves (compersion).
Have you been to the US?
It is insanity here. American Democracy is great but it makes for one hell of an alphamale game in what is touted as "alternative" or "subculture".
Dating in this country is a nightmare. I remember I took a girl in Montreal to dinner once. Not one time in the entire conversation did something randomly moronic, mediocre or just plain poorly mannered come out of her mouth.
I felt under dressed. She ended up not to be a good match but just for a sane date to go on with another person, it was wonderful.
This girl i am with now had NEVER been on a real date before she met me. (We are not that young either).
As in going to dinner, conversation, walking, getting to know each other, ect, ect. This is a beautiful person and we sync very well.
Begin treated like shit was also a common theme when she was mono. Though she had very few mono partners and one long term that was just some redneck nightmare.
I can't blame her for being poly now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
ya, feeding you a line there. She is saying that to all of them too btw... wow, she doesn't seem to know much about poly. I think she should be saying she has an open relationship style of dating, that would clear things up nicely in my mind.
I don't have enough reference as yet to know for sure if she tells her other SOs the same thing and I'm not ready to jump on it that she is just a player in poly's clothing.
But if doing so is in breaking with the "policy of poly" then again there is a case.
But who makes these rules?
It almost seems that who ever is writing the book on poly is just as insane as the arse who wrote the book on mono.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
got that right! Poly is not easy though, I worked with Mono for a year before we felt like we had all our needs met, no one was compromising and we were all happy in our position within our tribe. Then Derby came along and rolypoly and we adjusted again and continue to adjust to make sure everyone is getting their needs met. If we are doing it and are happy and others are, how can your belief in poly be true? I think what you have experienced is either very poor poly or not at all...
Again, I hear you and there are plenty of disturbing signs but there are also a LOT of really encouraging signs. Unfortunately most those have to deal with being held in higher regard than the other SOs. Which, as you state, is not keeping with poly.
But if that is true then what about the married polys on here who have just one spouse.
That is a damn large size of higher regard over their other SOs to be married to one co-habitate with that person exclusively and keep relationships outside that don't get to have the same experience. I understand that those others have found a comfort zone but for the central married person in all this what makes that husband or wife who may or may not be mono or poly, the person they married?

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
no there is nothing wrong with you, you seem to be doing okay in this, besides thinking that you have to compete.

If you are all good then what are you looking for here? Not that I want you to go, but just wonder...

In a nut shell, considering you have been hurt before, I think in your case and if I were you I would do as Mono says... in the meantime I think I would be working hard at gaining confidence, self esteem and self worth and getting some old issues worked out... if you work on the old issues you might find the latter falls into place.

I certainly would not be investing in this woman if it were me, as she doesn't seem to have all her ducks in a row either. She has her own work to do it seems. I am wondering what she is hoping to accomplish if anything? How her seemingly casual relationships are working for her? and what it is she wants in a future with you? Who knows, maybe if you get all that sorted out it will end up just you too... in the mean time, I think I would be looking at your self and stop blaming poly for what has gone wrong in your relationships.. because it certainly seems you do.
I'm not really feeling like i have to compete, it's that for how things always have worked out, I get forced into it or edged out for not playing some game.
Again, America land of the free, home of the bullshit artists.
What hurts me is being less to this person if another SO becomes a higher priority and that damn itch when i know she is with another or when text messaging and calls with other SOs break into our time.
You can't be in two places at once and priorities can only be split so far.

True, this girl has some serious "having the shit together" problems. Can't handle finances very well, very poor judge of character in some people and a bad habit of excuses where simple honesty would have been much better.
Of course I have the exact same problems in some cases and compliment her faults in others.
Another reason we have been in sync so well.
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  #26  
Old 07-21-2010, 10:05 PM
monopolylover monopolylover is offline
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For some reason, and this is that silly "Love" thing us "beings" tend to know very little about, I am compelled to care for her more than lust after her or want her always to be mine. We take care of each other and the way we have done so has been miraculous.
I've deluded myself in relationships before. Being where I think things are perfect but later the curtain is pulled away.
We have gotten into the industry of buying and selling experiences to each other in doses. Where "I love you forever" is just a splash of color on a canvas of delusional BS that we feed each other up to the point things get to hard and we drop everything, smash to bits all we can to forget it and move on.
It's a drug.
I had a fiance' once and we were together for nearly three years as BF/GF and then another as this cute couple about to be married. Dinner parties and the modification of friends and enviornment to get ready for kids and a home and being true adults in a sane and productive cherry pie society and then one day she had a friend of mine over to intentionally be sleeping with him in our bed when I came home just because she couldn't bear to tell me any other way that she had been cheating nearly the entire time I knew her.
How kind.
With the wedding a month away it was a peach of a situation.
I was told that it wasn't me it was her, she felt lost, she had been cheating for so long that she just couldn't stop and didn't know any other way. It was the club life and her job and the drugs doing it to her, bla bla bla.
We never really loved each other. We were both taking a drug and it was a hard core addiction that went on for way to long. She could have gotten us into cold turkey a bit easier but at this point I'm not counting eggs over it.
That and other "Open" or "poly" relationships that fell into similar delusional and destructive aspects did a lot of damage. In some relationships I got hurt again and in others I got into it because I knew i would get hurt just so I could have something to blame.
considering all of this I still feel on some level I'm a bad person but I know that isn't true. It's that kind of thing that causes itching and doubt.
I really want it to go away. I was celibate for SIX YEARS before I met this person I'm with now. Just because I couldn't take it anymore. I know this is a lot, I've been rambling but i did want to thank you all for your help because it has helped as I hope I haven't put any of you off as I may still need your help.

*sorry had to shorten things to keep under the 1000c limit*
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  #27  
Old 07-21-2010, 10:07 PM
monopolylover monopolylover is offline
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**OK, for the sake of things being to outside the accepted range of polyamory, I wont refer to this relationship as such**
If anything it sounds like my partner could stand to be a more honest Polyamorist
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  #28  
Old 07-21-2010, 10:16 PM
monopolylover monopolylover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoVCPHG View Post
There's nothing wrong with you. You do have a bank of negativity towards poly in general that is clear in your self expression...which is not a slag, just an observation. I have some too but not to this degree. I also have some negativity towards monogamists as well so it's not relationship style specific.

I think, for what you want out of a relationship, as long as you stop thinking so much you will be fine. You don't see her very often, but you both enjoy each other. You have a DADT policy of sorts with regards to the other guys so I recommend you expand on it. I wouldn't say this if I thought you were heading towards dreams of a white picket fence and co-habitation, but in this case it doesn't look like you want that. You do not sound ready to be the tree for her to lean on for support with her other relationships and there is nothing wrong with that. Perhaps she needs to be told this and than she can decide if this works for her. The details of her other relationships seem to be tearing you apart so cut them out of your relationship. She doesn't expect you to fulfill all of your needs (that's a part of being poly for many people) so let her find some one to fill that need who is ready for the job of support.

And don't close yourself off to other connections. She is the one person you love, you're monogamous, I get that. But for me monogamy does not include the idea of life long bonding necessarily...it's not a rule. It merely means I love one person at a time intimately. If I lose that connection I may or may not form another one. You may encounter (not find because that implies searching) some one who is better suited for you for the long haul. Just don't close your heart totally is what I am trying to say.

Take care
Mono
I like this post a lot. I have already supported her very much when she lost one of her SOs who went back to mono and was no longer there for her. I'm always there for her no matter what. She was very stressed out over it and It made me feel bad so I was there. the "rules" over other SOs I feel we do still need to muck about in and It needs to be done. I kinda wish she would be more up to going over such things.
The connection I've formed with this person is strong and I just do not like "hooking up" or shifting relationships.
Far to much work and I prefer my attentions in these aspects to be on one person. I like where things go with us and developing something else is just not my bag.
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  #29  
Old 07-21-2010, 10:43 PM
monopolylover monopolylover is offline
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To be honest I do have a good dose of negativity about "open" and "poly".
The concepts do not seem any better than the traditional corruptibility of mono and I've seen no evidence to prove otherwise.
My samplings of it have been from places in the states like NY, Chicago, Madison, california and other parts of the midwest and south.
Not the greatest pools of social integrity such as what I've seen in Canada.
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  #30  
Old 07-21-2010, 10:54 PM
Ariakas Ariakas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monopolylover View Post
To be honest I do have a good dose of negativity about "open" and "poly".
The concepts do not seem any better than the traditional corruptibility of mono and I've seen no evidence to prove otherwise.
My samplings of it have been from places in the states like NY, Chicago, Madison, california and other parts of the midwest and south.
Not the greatest pools of social integrity such as what I've seen in Canada.
your absolutely right. People shitty at relationships are shitty at relationships. Period. Mono, poly, or anything.
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