Polyamoury and marriage

[ImaginaryIllusion]

Originally Posted by YGirl

I hate to sound like that asshole Jay Severin, but what then? People marrying their pets?

ALL legal marriage should be ABOLISHED and anyone who wants to can just make up their own independent contracts. That should level the playing field.

Originally Posted by vandalin

I think that legal marriages should exist, but between same species only...at this point. But contracts would definitly be the way to go.

Fortunately I'm pretty sure contracts, and marriages require some kind of consent between the parties, so we needn't worry about pets since they'd probably be found incapable of giving informed consent. But there's no reason to be speciest about it, since if marriages were setup as contracts, it should be open to anyone with enough sentience to understand what it says...which will save a lot of time, tears, and blood when the alien invasion comes and the whole species thing comes up again...

Seriously though, the idea of flexible term contracts based on individual group needs (tell me that doesn't sound paradoxical already) would probably save society a lot of tears, heartache and bloodshed upfront since divorce would simply become a non-renewal clause, and people stuck in bad situations would also know there's an end in sight, and decide if they need to break now, or wait until the end of contract, which would probably be a shorter time than what some unfortunates wait for under the current system.

Although I'm not sure if the Lawyers would go for a smaller flat rate up front in lieu of the big $ they make in the current cycle of divorce & alimony.

[NeonKaos]

I actually didn't mean what I said, I was just playing devil's advocate.

However, I have to say that something in me believes that legal marriage should only involve two people. I can't really find the words to describe why this is.. Maybe it's mono-conditioning, but I can talk myself around that. Perhaps as this discussion continues, things will become more clear and I'll be able to figure it out.

[Quath]

Originally Posted by vandalin

I think that legal marriages should exist, but between same species only...at this point.

But I so wanted my dog to marry my cat!

Originally Posted by YGirl

However, I have to say that something in me believes that legal marriage should only involve two people. I can't really find the words to describe why this is.. Maybe it's mono-conditioning, but I can talk myself around that. Perhaps as this discussion continues, things will become more clear and I'll be able to figure it out.

When I studied older societies, I quickly learned that marriage was a way to pass a daughter from her father to a new man. It was a way to make sure that lineage could be followed (which is why adultery and sex rules focused on the woman, not the man).

It was not until recently that marriage has changed to be about happiness and love and an environment to raise children. I think a polyamorous idea of marriage is just continuation of this idea.

[Mark1npt]

Quath, you bring up some good points. The way things are now, is NOT the way they previously were.

[ImaginaryIllusion]

Originally Posted by YGirl

I actually didn't mean what I said, I was just playing devil's advocate.

I know. But we both know it's the kind of rhetoric that comes up anyways.

[DestinyWaits]

This is actually a very good discussion to have. The reason I say this is because it brings up a question I have had for some time...has anyone else ever had the problem where because you are married that the "new" partner, reguardless of equality, seems to bring up the "because you're married" thing whenever things don't go a certain way or when things seem to be going a different way then expected? Or uses the "you are married" line regularly? also, I found a site where you can get ceremonies for triad or poly unions (tho I must confess that I would have to search for it again ) but alas, those unions aren't recognized by governmental bodies which is not right because in my opinion people should be able to marry whomever they want without fear of retribution from the government who is supposed to protect us not punish us.

[foxflame88]

Originally Posted by DestinyWaits

...has anyone else ever had the problem where because you are married that the "new" partner, reguardless of equality, seems to bring up the "because you're married" thing whenever things don't go a certain way or when things seem to be going a different way then expected? Or uses the "you are married" line regularly?

I've not been in that situation... but honestly, that is why I am leery of being someone's elusive "unicorn"

[MonoVCPHG]

Originally Posted by DestinyWaits

has anyone else ever had the problem where because you are married that the "new" partner, reguardless of equality, seems to bring up the "because you're married" thing whenever things don't go a certain way or when things seem to be going a different way then expected? Or uses the "you are married" line regularly?

Being a "new" partner I can't even imagine saying that. I hold Redpepper's marriage sacred and above everything else in this. of course that is also the source of my compersion for their relationship as well.

[XYZ123]

P used to use this line all the time. "You are married" "He is your husband". I reminded her all the time that we were together a little over 5 years before marriage and the marriage came about for practical (health insurance, life insurance, security for our child) and not emotional reasons. In our hearts, we were married long before. And to us, that "in our hearts" union was what mattered and could be achieved with another just as strongly emotionally, if not legally. I may as well have been talking to a wall.

[Ceoli]

Originally Posted by DestinyWaits

...has anyone else ever had the problem where because you are married that the "new" partner, reguardless of equality, seems to bring up the "because you're married" thing whenever things don't go a certain way or when things seem to be going a different way then expected? Or uses the "you are married" line regularly?

Unfortunately, as the law currently stands, with marriage comes all sorts of legal rights and privileges. Regardless of how people may "feel in their heart", it still stands that two members of the triad have more legal rights and security than the third. This includes rights to hospital visitation, child custody, health insurance, power of attorney, etc. If a third does join a poly couple in some form of marriage, that third is doing so with a great deal more risk than the couple is, regardless of how committed everybody is emotionally. I find it amazing that lots of couples can't understand why this inherent practical inequity can be an issue for a third. I often wonder of married couples wanting a third to join them- would they be willing to divorce each other and one of them marry the third instead?

This (among other reasons I have laid out in other posts) is why I never desire to be a third that joins a couple in a polyfi triad. If being in a closed triad was my relationship style, I might be more willing to consider three people if we all three came together at the same time and none of us were married, but honestly, that's not what I'm looking for.