perpetualstudent
New member
Well, it's morning here, although I don't know when it might be when you read this. As is obvious, I'm new. Please don't eat me.
Good morning
- Thread starter perpetualstudent
- Start date
opalescent
Active member
Welcome! We tend not to eat anyone here. Yes, if you ask for advice, you might read some strong opinions that may not feel flattering to you. Some interactions can get spicy. It's not always warm and fuzzy here. But it is rarely vindictive or trolling.
Shaya
New member
Hi perpetualstudent,
I'm relatively new to the forums and am not practising polyamory. I'm interested in something you said in another thread.
You said you were in a DADT (dont' ask don't tell) with your primary, but that you had "established rules and codes specifically designed to communicate where we are, what we're doing, and when we're likely to return."
This looks like consent to me! Or maybe pseudo-consent? DADT to me has always fallen in the camp of non consensual non monogamy. I've always had the inkling feeling that DADT could be consensual non monogamy and it seems like you're a living example of this.
Do you feel comfortable describing your version of DADT please? I'm curious how much is consensual and how much is non consensual (eg, has your primary partner a right to know or demand safe sex from you and your other partner? Can your primary partner demand you come home? Veto? Boundaries? Details? Finance sharing and cost of dates? What to say if caught in public by mutual friends? Meeting the other girl even just once or casually? Bringing new sexual acts back to the bedroom? Hickies or bruises?)
I'm relatively new to the forums and am not practising polyamory. I'm interested in something you said in another thread.
You said you were in a DADT (dont' ask don't tell) with your primary, but that you had "established rules and codes specifically designed to communicate where we are, what we're doing, and when we're likely to return."
This looks like consent to me! Or maybe pseudo-consent? DADT to me has always fallen in the camp of non consensual non monogamy. I've always had the inkling feeling that DADT could be consensual non monogamy and it seems like you're a living example of this.
Do you feel comfortable describing your version of DADT please? I'm curious how much is consensual and how much is non consensual (eg, has your primary partner a right to know or demand safe sex from you and your other partner? Can your primary partner demand you come home? Veto? Boundaries? Details? Finance sharing and cost of dates? What to say if caught in public by mutual friends? Meeting the other girl even just once or casually? Bringing new sexual acts back to the bedroom? Hickies or bruises?)
Emm
Stealth Mod
What do these examples have to do with the difference between consensual and non-consensual? Controlling and non-controlling, sure, but consensual?
Edit: Also, hi perpetualstudent!
perpetualstudent
New member
I think you have DADT confused with cheating. Although they correlate one is not the other. A DADT can exist inside an ethical structure, and is sometimes required depending on one's boundaries. It really comes down to respect for your primary and their dignity.
What is appropriate when leading from lifestyle to another? Even though my wife is a monogamist, I am not. We're both aware of that, and have accepted the social mores that are required to maintain a good relationship that is respectful of each of our needs. While she is my best friend and I would like to divulge all details it makes her exceedingly uncomfortable for me to do so.
Because she has different cultural expectations we use code because hearing "I'm with my girlfriend" is significantly different than "I'm hanging out over at X's place." One is disrespectful to her cultural attachments, the other is not. Cross-culture dating is one good way to understand the requirements by analogy. I would not date an Iranian woman and ever show her the bottom of my shoe. It's a deep insult. The same can be said of mixing poly and monogamist relationships. Each require different codes of conduct that is only appropriate within their context.
While I would like to say that each individual is as they should be, perfectly independent and generous with their resources, I can understand that most think money is a big issue. Money is always an issue in marriage, and must be addressed openly and adequately. The way we address money inside the marriage is simple: a general pool with excesses attributed to each individual equally. Whatever one does with his or her own money is up to them. I think if it's done any other way it's an invitation to brawls.
I generally date women who share my political views which are quite leftist. Money is dutch and I don't generally spend. If extravagance is a requirement, I already know I'm not dating the right person and will end things before they begin, but I have to say, I have never had this issue. Emotional attachments predate any sexual feelings for me, and always have. I'm not a swinger, and sex for me has never been "just sex."
As for safe sex, general interpersonal guidelines, and a veto, those are standard social mores. My primary relationship is the most important in my life. Safe sex is a requirement to respecting myself and protecting that central relationship. I can't understand how others are so casual about it, really. Heb B, Heb C, HIV, a host of other diseases. Who wants that? And pregnancy would be a nightmare. It is inappropriate and irresponsible to have unsafe sex outside a primary relationship or complex marriage. We both feel the same in this regard and this is not negotiable in my other relationships.
As for bringing new sexual acts home, I don't have to worry about this. My wife has complex health issues that have left her without a libido, a side effect of required medication. It's how our relationship developed from a monogamy to consensual non-monogamy. Even if it were a possible issue I don't think I would drag what is appropriate to one relationship into another. Most sex acts are the blossom of a particular pairing. Good lovers understand the needs of their partner and cue their own in ways that they can be understood.
I think the basic misunderstanding here is one of sex as sex. When one considers what sex is as a biological act, it is much more than mechanical. Physiological responses vary distinctly from person to person. I have one lover in particular who likes an abundant degree of pain. It is freeing for her, though difficult for me. I can be what she needs me to be in bed because it empowers her and helps her find her glow and her growth. The pain has nothing to do with the biological imperative but everything to do with her physiological and psychological needs. One must consider that sex is bonding, not procreation, or rather, not merely procreation. Sex is a social act that is shared and shaped by the individuals that create it by their pairing.
As to our friends, they know me as me. If they didn't they wouldn't be friends. They respect my wife's choices as they respect mine. Acquaintances I simply don't worry about. As a general rule people think what they want to think. I can't stop them or their cynicism. This has caused problems in the past, but I can't think of a more appropriate and responsible way of addressing this issue that is fair to all parties.
The veto is mandatory, and has been used, though I agreed with its use. One of the boundaries that we share is that we don't gripe about one another to anyone else. Our relationship problems are ours and no one else's. When this boundary has been crossed, whether from inside the relationship, or from outside, it stops immediately. Early on I was tempted to complain, I can admit that, and fessed up before things got out of hand. Her requirement was that I end that relationship, which I thought perfectly reasonable and wise. While we have our resentments, we do not share them with others. Ever.
I have never had the urge to introduce my wife to my girlfriends, though I do praise her to them, or vise versa. My wife's boundaries, her cultural identity, requires that I keep these relationships separate. I respect that and protect her dignity. We've met one of my lovers by happenstance, but it was casual and non-confrontational. Mostly I can attribute that to the kinds of women I'm attracted to. They are all very independent and smart with strong personalities. Even if they don't always agree with my ethics (I've never met two people who agree completely about ethics) they understand the why of it and respect my boundaries.
I did once date a woman for a short time who did not. Her issues were varied. Though it isn't appropriate to go into them, I can say that what she wanted wasn't a relationship that I could be a part of even if I were not married. I ended it abruptly. I have not made that mistake again.
About bruises. I've had scratches on my back and a few hickies. I don't show them off, but don't hide them either. They haven't been an issue, but I don't make them one either.
A quick word about the why of it, as I think it's important. If I were anyone else I could probably be happy in a monogamy that didn't extend to sex, but I'm not. While I don't think it's a physical need, I do think it's a psychological one. I am happier and a better, more attentive husband when I have outside interests. The "loverush" as it were helps me maintain a calm, consistent, and loving presence even in sometimes difficult medical situations. Though I used to, I no longer consider my psychological needs a failure and refused to allow them to be characterized as such.
Notions like happiness, calm, fortitude, these are all more chemical than most would accept. I merely design my life to function in it as best I can. That may sound cold and rational, but I don't think there is anything cold about wanting to be seen as intrinsically valuable.
I would classify my DADT as ethical and consensual, but then I would, wouldn't I? Whether you would is up to your judgment. All I can do is answer your questions and let you come to your own conclusion.
Are there any specific questions that I failed to answer or other followups you would like to ask? About this subject I am an open book.
Al99
Well-known member
Shaya wrote:
I would agree with perpetualstudent's view:
I believe that I would view DADT as a form of consensual non-monogamy in most situations- although certainly not poly or partnered non-monogamy (swinging, e.g.). It seems to me that a mutual agreement not to ask about their partner's additional sex partners combined with the complementary agreement not to tell about other sex partners is a blanket form of consent - especially if so stated within the framework of a "open marriage" - which would most likely be the usual case in which a DADT agreement would exist.
I am certain that there are shades of DADT as well. In perpetualstudent's case, they use code words and have a veto - so some knowledge clearly exists - but apparently details are not shared. In other cases, primarily sexual in nature (and my understanding is that DADT is more often utilized for sexual encounters than a full fledged relationship), then the encounter may never be mentioned all - in keeping with DADT - and still be within the terms of the the DADT open marriage agreement (one would hope that responsible safer sex methods were employed). However, even in such a more private DADT open relationship, things do come out, sometimes an explanation of time absent may be required, etc - and it seems to me that in such cases, the situation should be merely accepted, discussed to the point necessary, and be done - in accordance with the DADT principle. As I have stated before, that would not work well for me - if I have to be non-monogamous, poly will be my choice.
Al
I would agree with perpetualstudent's view:
I believe that I would view DADT as a form of consensual non-monogamy in most situations- although certainly not poly or partnered non-monogamy (swinging, e.g.). It seems to me that a mutual agreement not to ask about their partner's additional sex partners combined with the complementary agreement not to tell about other sex partners is a blanket form of consent - especially if so stated within the framework of a "open marriage" - which would most likely be the usual case in which a DADT agreement would exist.
I am certain that there are shades of DADT as well. In perpetualstudent's case, they use code words and have a veto - so some knowledge clearly exists - but apparently details are not shared. In other cases, primarily sexual in nature (and my understanding is that DADT is more often utilized for sexual encounters than a full fledged relationship), then the encounter may never be mentioned all - in keeping with DADT - and still be within the terms of the the DADT open marriage agreement (one would hope that responsible safer sex methods were employed). However, even in such a more private DADT open relationship, things do come out, sometimes an explanation of time absent may be required, etc - and it seems to me that in such cases, the situation should be merely accepted, discussed to the point necessary, and be done - in accordance with the DADT principle. As I have stated before, that would not work well for me - if I have to be non-monogamous, poly will be my choice.
Al
Greetings perpetualstudent,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.
I won't eat you, but only because you're so tough and stringy.
It sounds like you and your wife have crafted a careful and successful blueprint for how you will craft a mono/poly life. I think that's excellent, and suspect you'll have some good advice for others as well.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"
Notes:
There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!
Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.
Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.
If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.
Welcome aboard!
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.
I won't eat you, but only because you're so tough and stringy.
It sounds like you and your wife have crafted a careful and successful blueprint for how you will craft a mono/poly life. I think that's excellent, and suspect you'll have some good advice for others as well.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"
Notes:
There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!
Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.
Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.
If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.
Welcome aboard!