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  #11  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:11 PM
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I'm relatively new to this particular side of relationships...but here's something I've learned.

My g/f is very hard headed. She presents double standards out the ying-yang, and not even on purpose, i think it's just subconscious. As someone who is also very strong-willed and hard-headed, i was first very bewildered by her blatant hypocrisy. It made me so upset, I would yell, she would get scared, and we would entangle ourselves in circular arguments. However, now I've learned a technique to cope with it.

I've learned that whenever you feel injustice, it must be made known and dealt with immediately(same with all emotions really :P). After your feelings are made known, it is important to figure what you want out of the situation, and appropriately deal with it; either by compromise, tolerated stalemate(agree to differ), or concession & apology by/for either side. In other words, you either let it go, both of you make some compromise, you both agree to disagree and the line of discussion ends, or one of you apologizes.

Putting myself in your situation I would be feeling two things.

1. Regret for not making my conditions fully known before the V happened, including the desire to be open to other people and NOT a closed V.
2. Extreme Injustice for not being to able to be as open as my partner.

I honestly don't even know how you can't look that situation and think, "wtf?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narciss...ality_disorder
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/0...ationships.htm
And to help control the controlling behavior
http://www.familyresource.com/lifest...mpt-to-control
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2010, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rpcrazy View Post
In other words, you either let it go, both of you make some compromise, you both agree to disagree and the line of discussion ends, or one of you apologizes.
I just tried to find a post i wrote on compromise... i could find it. I wanted to just say that i don't think we should any of us compromise. i think that indicates that we are settling for something because what we really need is not available to us. i don't stop at a compromise and don't expect that my loves would to. If I am settling for something temporarily then that is different, but to settle indefinitely is just not comfortable or going to work for me. More work needs doing until everyone concerned is satisfied with the result and has their needs met. Sometimes that means I need to adjust my ideas and figure out different ways of looking at something or finding satisfaction in giving. I need to work towards the end result as much as anyone else. I would expect the same. To me it seems that if a compromise is happening then the real root of the needs is not being addressed and we need to dig deeper to find it.
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  #13  
Old 06-29-2010, 12:25 AM
Propast Propast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irena View Post
It sounds like you're able to be patient, understanding, and non-defensive, which is awesome. I hope things work out for all three of you!
I should point out right away that I'm no saint. I've had my fair share of meltdowns, unfairnesses and hypocrisy over the years we've been together and in the last two months of hard work. I also panic and despair sometimes, fantasizing about (and even planning) moving out. It helps lately that I'm trying to approach this in a very conscious manner: studying techniques, reading your experiences, taking time to think about myself and S and D. These are all helping. And when I sit down to write to you, its usually after I've done some processing so it's nice and clean.

I asked S about seeing C again as a friend, asking what it would take to make her comfortable. Immediate panic reaction from S. Why, why do I want to see her again, why so soon, why ever, why do I need to do this to her? This is going to be hard to unravel. What did I manage to learn during the following talk?

The title of this post is pretty much right.
Quote:
Paraphrased from talk with S: I don't feel polyamorous. I feel monogamous... bigamous I guess, as in two
No need to comment on that again, just sharing her mindset.

She needs to find her her own resources
She does not like internet forums, we haven't found local poly groups for her to talk to, and the recommended book I've been reading (The Ethical Slut) really rubs here the wrong way as the focus so far is heavily on the sexual side. Can anyone recommend a poly book that focuses on the relationship side?
(From her side, she is trying to locate a counselor or therapist that would be competent to handle this kind of thing. I'll send her the thread on counselors)

S always saw C as a threat.
Okay, I'm a clueless fucking male and I didn't see this. Ever since I've known C, S has been scared. She's tried to put it away, to become friends, to figure it out. In fact, she's seen other friends of mine as threats.

This opened the door to the interesting question: why did/do you feel threatened? First answer in her head was because we already didn't have enough time together (Luckily, we are already working hard on that one), and she doesn't want me to get all my time pulled away by another woman. Okay, that's something we can work with! I left the "Threat" question open for followup another time, we'd already been through the ringer quite a bit.

S doesn't trust C, and I don't think she really trusts me to know / control my own emotions.
S thinks C will try to win me over in some slow sneaky way. Again, I'm a clueless male, but I don't really think so: when I asked her if she'd be interested in something with me, she immediately shot me down because "I thought you were married!" (and luckily stayed a friend and I got a chance later to clarify). S also thinks I've 'crossed a line' and can't go back to thinking about this woman as just a friend.

I really think it would help if the two of them talked, but that's unlikely to happen.

I've agreed to hold off on contact for a while (easy agreement to make, since in 8 days we go to America for 3 weeks), but I'm worried even that won't be enough. What happens to my standing by principles if the hackles keep going up so strongly over this issue?
(One possible answer to my own question: You fool. The panic reactions are a subconscious attempt to control you. Stop being so understanding. Tear off the band-aid, force the issue, and she'll need to deal with it)

@rpcrazy: Our talks also go through tough circles before we reach the center important bits (not usually real yelling, luckily) Thanks for the tips, I'll try to digest them.

On the positive side, D is back in town. We've all been spending lots of time together and it feels pretty good to be friends again. I got melancholy at end of night, couldn't track down why, probably a reminder to take my personal space. Okay forums, thanks for letting me get all that out, I'm now off to sleep.
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  #14  
Old 06-29-2010, 12:50 AM
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Might I suggest you look at the book recommendation thread that is a sticky? I don't read but I offered the "conscious loving" book to Mono who really enjoyed it. I leean more from peoples experiences rather than someone elses theory. That's what I like about here.
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  #15  
Old 06-29-2010, 06:41 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irena View Post
If I may... it sounds like you did do a teeny thing wrong, in asking C out before you'd gotten your primary partner's full go-ahead. From what you've written, it sounds like S has never gotten comfortable with the idea of your seeing someone else, and from her perspective it might look as though you used her being out of town to go behind her back and do something she wasn't okay with.
As I understand it, S asked for a DADT, and pro built a friendship with C under the impression that's what S wanted. But HE was not comfortable with DADT, so before he actually went on a date, fell in love, had sex with C, he checked in with S.

If S had known about C when things were building, and you probably had the thought long before you asked her out, she would have time to deal with the idea before it became an immediate situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I just tried to find a post i wrote on compromise... i could find it. I wanted to just say that i don't think we should any of us compromise. i think that indicates that we are settling for something because what we really need is not available to us.
Do you draw the line in love, or is that an overall rule? There are so many situations in our lives where compromise is necessary, where we both want complete opposites on a given issue. Like when we just bought dh an RV to live in for work, and he wanted the 20K one that's 5 years old, and I wanted to spend only cash we had on hand, so we got one that wiped out our rainy day fund but didn't require a loan and still had the amenities he needs.
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  #16  
Old 06-29-2010, 02:34 PM
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just a quick addition
compromise is necessary in certain situations. Like all aspects of life, and relationships, everything is basically situational
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  #17  
Old 06-29-2010, 03:05 PM
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To me compromise is something I do that leads to recentment. If I can't find it in my heart to have compersion and good feelings about a situation then I've compromised and it still needs to be looked at in order to find a balance. Yes it sounds like you compromised Schrodner, but to me anything to do with money is a compromisable. Anything to do with feelings and emotions in a poly situation should not be. There should never be any twinge of "I've given something up." It just builds and becomes larger than it need be in my experience. Unless its temporary and a work in progress.
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  #18  
Old 07-02-2010, 10:36 PM
jkelly jkelly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Propast View Post
I feel monogamous... bigamous I guess, as in two
I suspect that if enough time goes by, y'all will need to start looking up some more numbers in Latin. What I mean is that I doubt that there is anything magical about the number 'two'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Propast View Post
I sometimes want to retaliate, force us back to mono, cut D out of our lives. "If I can't, you can't!" This feeling never survives me actually sitting down and talking to D: he's a human being not an enemy, he's a good friend that I want to KEEP in my life. But it's there, a nasty hurt-back feeling. Any thoughts on... smoothing this out in myself? ... how to ethically handle it if I can't live with him anymore?
Don't indulge this feeling. None of this is about D, he doesn't deserve to have his friend demand that his lover break his heart over her jealousy issues, and there's certainly nothing ethical about that idea.

Have you figured out what you want and need from your relationships? The only clear thing I get from your posts is that you dislike the idea of DADT so much that you weren't willing to abide by it. Some questions:
  • Do you have any reason to believe that if you do pursue things with C that your feelings for S won't change drastically?
  • Do you really want to be in poly- relationships, or is this something that you're doing because you unexpectedly found yourself in one?
  • If S is clearly never going to get to a place where she is comfortable with you having another partner, would you stay in a relationship with her?
  • Now that S has used that veto you gave her when it actually matters, do you still think that you want her to have a veto?
  • S is pretty clearly going through some major jealousy issues. What can you offer her that makes it worth the work? Does she understand what you get out of her having the relationship she has with D?

Y'know, something is going on with S that is leading her to react really badly; she shouldn't "panic" at the thought of you having a friend that you're romantically interested in, she shouldn't be thinking of any of your friends as "threats", and these conversations in general shouldn't be anywhere near this difficult. So what can you do that would make things feel safer for her? Perhaps D might have some insight, or could even serve as a mediator for the harder conversations.
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  #19  
Old 07-07-2010, 11:22 AM
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Let me just levy my vote on the side of those who say DADT is not poly, and not just.
And on the side of those who say that your lady needs to realize that she's had her cake and been eating it too for quite some time.. she's got to understand that you may have outside interests and, as long as she's playing the game, she will have to accept them.
The whole "it's ok for me to do it, but not for you" thing just doesn't fly with me. Either she's poly, or she's not. If she's not, then she's NOT.. and that means bye-bye boyfriend, hello monogamy. This sort of hypocritical behavior infuriates me.
And for those who condemn Propast for not getting things ok'd before the first date... well, S had specified "DADT".. Pro's mistake was, apparently, telling.. even though we all know that it was probably a relationship-saving move.
S is maintaining a double standard in several ways.. double standards rarely produce positive results. No, life is not "fair".. but successful poly relationships are "equitable", and take into account the feelings/needs/wants of all parties.
Short form? Either it's a poly relationship, or it's not a poly relationship. In the end, no matter how fond of D either one of them is, unless it develops into a full triad, Pro's going to end up angry and hurt again. Poly is give and take..S might just have to step a bit out of the comfort zone if she wants to keep what she has.
Hell, there are those that might call it cuckholding instead of poly, as it sits.
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  #20  
Old 07-07-2010, 05:06 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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+ another to the list of "it's all well and kind of you to recognize a possible mistake yu made, but she's WAAAY out of bounds". If what we're hearing is the whole story as it relates to the C situation, then she needs "a check up from th neck up".

Quote:
We've identified that we weren't as strong as we thought: there were little jealousies, lack of attention, poor communication that were creeping in.
Oh yeah, lol. Violet and I have one of the most stable and solid relationships I've ever seen, much less experienced. And we run into this almost monthly. Had a real tough one just yesterday. So far, we always get it resolved and we're always better off for it.
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