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  #11  
Old 06-25-2010, 05:51 PM
SayYes SayYes is offline
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I understand your point about "why upset the GF about it if the ex isn't even interested anyway?" But I think perhaps it might be wise to take a broader view of the situation than thinking strictly in terms of this particular relationship you want to pursue. To me, being poly is rather similar to sexual orientation. If it comes naturally and makes sense to you to love more than one woman at a time, and to be in more than one romantic relationship, that has a lot more to do with who YOU are as an individual than it has to do with this one particular arrangement you're interested in pursuing. If you really think it's just all about these certain individuals and not something you would desire under any other circumstances, then perhaps it makes sense to feel out the ex's openness to the idea before putting your gf through any stress over it. But if you are poly, if it's a part of who you are, then it will become an issue for you again at some point in your relationship regardless of whether it's with the ex or someone new you meet down the road. In that case, I would say definitely have a conversation with the gf first, and don't start out by making it specifically about the ex, but about you and this aspect of who you are.
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  #12  
Old 06-25-2010, 06:01 PM
Noname Noname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SayYes View Post
I understand your point about "why upset the GF about it if the ex isn't even interested anyway?" But I think perhaps it might be wise to take a broader view of the situation than thinking strictly in terms of this particular relationship you want to pursue. To me, being poly is rather similar to sexual orientation. If it comes naturally and makes sense to you to love more than one woman at a time, and to be in more than one romantic relationship, that has a lot more to do with who YOU are as an individual than it has to do with this one particular arrangement you're interested in pursuing. If you really think it's just all about these certain individuals and not something you would desire under any other circumstances, then perhaps it makes sense to feel out the ex's openness to the idea before putting your gf through any stress over it. But if you are poly, if it's a part of who you are, then it will become an issue for you again at some point in your relationship regardless of whether it's with the ex or someone new you meet down the road. In that case, I would say definitely have a conversation with the gf first, and don't start out by making it specifically about the ex, but about you and this aspect of who you are.
Very interesting point here. That is some of what I am trying to learn about myself.

I have lots of ex's that are just that. When I was done with the relationship it was over. No looking back or wondering. With this ex I can never quite give her up, but we have tried and tried to make it work and it does not. The current GF is amazing and I love her (not something that I say easy) but there is a big spot in my heart the misses my ex.

I dont know what this makes me as a definition so that is what I am here to learn. What/who I might be. What my options might be. Could this work. How to work hard to make something like this work. Do I just need to drop the whole thing. I dont know, but I going to do my best to learn the answers.
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  #13  
Old 06-25-2010, 06:46 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Originally Posted by Noname View Post
With this ex I can never quite give her up, but we have tried and tried to make it work and it does not.

I'm a little curious as to why you think being in a polyamorous "vee" will make it easier as opposed to more difficult. If you have "tried and tried" and can't seem to make it work, maybe you two are better off just staying friends. Increasing the number of people in any dynamic makes things MORE complicated, and if you can't get it to work with each person on a one-to-one basis, you won't be any more successful when everyone is in the boat together. It's one thing to say that the two ladies might not be able to work together, but you yourself have just admitted that you can't seem to get it right with one of them, despite repeated attempts. Perhaps that's the universe's way of telling you that you are not meant for each other.
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2010, 07:18 PM
Noname Noname is offline
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Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
I'm a little curious as to why you think being in a polyamorous "vee" will make it easier as opposed to more difficult. If you have "tried and tried" and can't seem to make it work, maybe you two are better off just staying friends. Increasing the number of people in any dynamic makes things MORE complicated, and if you can't get it to work with each person on a one-to-one basis, you won't be any more successful when everyone is in the boat together. It's one thing to say that the two ladies might not be able to work together, but you yourself have just admitted that you can't seem to get it right with one of them, despite repeated attempts. Perhaps that's the universe's way of telling you that you are not meant for each other.

That might be where my thinking is wrong on this. I know Poly is not a fix for problems.

For lack of a better phrase me and my ex brought out the "worst" in each other. We never had big fights over stuff, which I know some people say is not good. For me I just always felt like there was a little something missing. For me, and from what she says, things were never bad, they were just kinda stuck.

I am an active person and like to do stuff. We always talked about doing things, but never did them. I am semi lazy and great at procrastinating and when me and the ex were together it was even worse cause she is similar in that way. My GF motivates me great and we do all kinds of things. That is one of the things me and the ex talked about and said we would change more then once and it never did.

I think my ex was worried that she would lose me if she "pushed" me to things when a little pushing is what I need. I know she always just kinda went with the flow because of that. Yet we ended up apart. I know we did some of our best talking when things were ended each time, when there was nothing to lose. Again still did not change things.

The times that I broke up with my ex it would take a couple weeks to a month before I had myself back to myself and was wondering why I didnt just stay with the ex. So we would talk about what went wrong and how it was going to be different. The last time was even with a counselor for about 6 months. Still things didnt change.

While I have let the ex go I do miss her and I want more then just friendship with her. The intimacy we shared was NEVER a problem. It never needed work. No matter what happened during the day sitting on the couch together late at night or crawling into bed for the evening made everything else go away. I am not just talking about sex. As I said I had to see her the other day for about 4hrs in a social setting (my GF was not there) and I wanted nothing more then to just touch her, hold her hand, be close to her, find out more about what she has been up to, share my fun things with her, ect.

So my thought is that having both of these girls plus me will bring out the best of all of us and help things grow. If I am understanding V/vee correctly that is where one person (me in this case) has relationships with 2 people (in this case 2 women) that dont really interact. That is not what I would want in the long term, but might be a point to start. In the long term I would want them to be close and all 3 of us have a life together. This might be a twisted way of looking at it but it is how I feel right now so I am trying to learn more. My ex use to send me all kinds of relationship links with info to read. None of it really seemed to fit me. When I found a Poly FAQ many of the things in there made me go "that sounds a lot like me" so I want to learn.

As another thought I have heard it said that the 2 girls should meet and see what happens. While I totally agree how do you say to your GF "hey you should meet my ex"?

I think they would get along. My sister knows both of them, but my ex better, and was going to ask her is she thought they could be friends. I know it takes more then that to make stuff like this work, but you have to start somewhere.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 06-25-2010 at 07:49 PM. Reason: merge posts
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  #15  
Old 06-25-2010, 07:48 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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So my thought is that having both of these girls plus me will bring out the best of all of us and help things grow.
This is a nice thought, but it's a bit idealistic and presumptuous. Again, I refer you to what I said before. If you can't get it right with the ex, it's going to be more complicated, not easier, in a vee-type arrangement. Things are not going to miraculously "fix" themselves just because there are more people involved.

Quote:
If I am understanding V/vee correctly that is where one person (me in this case) has relationships with 2 people (in this case 2 women) that dont really interact.
A "vee" is when two people are involved with the same person but do not have sex with each other. It doesn't mean they "don't interact". It's actually better if they "do interact" to some extent. If all three partners are sexually involved with each other (and this doesn't necessarily mean they are having "threesomes", but it CAN sometimes involve three-way sex), then it is usually called a "triad".

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As another thought I have heard it said that the 2 girls should meet and see what happens.
Whoa - wait. I thought they already have met each other.

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While I totally agree how do you say to your GF "hey you should meet my ex"?
How about "Hey hon, you should meet my ex"?

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I think they would get along. My sister knows both of them, but my ex better, and was going to ask her is she thought they could be friends. I know it takes more then that to make stuff like this work, but you have to start somewhere.
That is what you should do. You are getting way ahead of yourself with this "happy threesome" business. Like I said, I thought they already knew each other and at least got along in a casual way! Just introduce your ex to GF as a FRIEND - if you are such good friends with her, this is perfectly normal.

Having said all that, after hearing some more of your background with Ex - you need to realize that people can love each other and be "in love" and still not make good partners in everyday life.

You sound like you want to do the right thing. Just try to remember that if you don't get what you want, you might be better off than if you do get what you want. You have the rest of your life ahead of you and it doesn't depend on getting the exact relationship configuration that you envision with these two women.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 06-25-2010 at 07:53 PM.
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  #16  
Old 06-25-2010, 08:21 PM
Noname Noname is offline
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I know I have said thank you a lot but I am here to learn all I can. I sure am learning and been given to lots of thinking which leads to more questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
A "vee" is when two people are involved with the same person but do not have sex with each other. It doesn't mean they "don't interact". It's actually better if they "do interact" to some extent. If all three partners are sexually involved with each other (and this doesn't necessarily mean they are having "threesomes", but it CAN sometimes involve three-way sex), then it is usually called a "triad".
Make sense. I dont see those 2 having any kind of sexual relationship nor would I push for it, not my real goal, or even a goal. They both make me happy and I want to make both of them as happy as I can. As I stated in one of my other posts even with all the bad stuff I did my ex said she NEVER felt unloved or unwanted. Just to make sure I was right I did ask her when I saw her if that is what she said.

Quote:
That is what you should do. You are getting way ahead of yourself with this "happy threesome" business. Like I said, I thought they already knew each other and at least got along in a casual way! Just introduce your ex to GF as a FRIEND - if you are such good friends with her, this is perfectly normal.
Sorry if I mislead. They do not know each other. It just seems random and weirdish to ask my GF to hang out with me and my ex. I know it sound simple as lets go do "something" together, but figuring out what that something is that gives me a reason to have both there will be harder.

I will have to think on it. I have always been of the ex's dont meet unless there is a good reason. I am not sure why I feel that way as I have meet more then a few ex's of the girls I have dated and not had any issues.

Quote:
Having said all that, after hearing some more of your background with Ex - you need to realize that people can love each other and be "in love" and still not make good partners in everyday life.

You sound like you want to do the right thing. Just try to remember that if you don't get what you want, you might be better off than if you do get what you want. You have the rest of your life ahead of you and it doesn't depend on getting the exact relationship configuration that you envision with these two women.
I know. This is something I have been struggling with for quite some time now.
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  #17  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:13 PM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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They should definitely start hanging out together if they don't know each other. that is where to start! I thought they knew each other too. Yup, would invite the ex over for a supper that you would make and allow them to talk and get to know each other while you treat them like the queens they are. Lavish some good hosting on them and make them feel comradeship with each other right away. Make it fun and light, where a cute apron, whatever you can think of to make it a fun evening of laughing and lightness.

My fear here is that GF will fall into the trap of motivational butt kicker for the two of you (ex and you).... not fair. I fall into that quite often. If and when this all works out, make sure that you keep your relationship with both separate as no metamour should be butt kicking a relationship that isn't hers... your relationship with the GF is a separate thing entirely from the friendship you have with the ex. Getting together and having a poly relationship, will not fix the relationship you had before, that didn't work out. You may all get along, but that is it. It's up to you and the ex to work out what happened that you all didn't work the first time round.

I'm also concerned that you are hesitating on the thought of either of them having other lovers. If you are finding your back is getting up over that one, then it might just well mean that ex stay a really good friend and not take it anywhere else... unless you can commit to the change that will occur, don't do it... your ladies have minds of their own and will not have your undivided attention all on them all of the time any more. They will want something more in some way to make up for that, and the first thing they will think about is finding other lovers. I can pretty much guarantee that they will have no problem once they get out there. Women generally don't, it's the guys that have a hard time finding another lover. It seems this is the very first step, as is the one noted above.
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2010, 11:27 PM
Noname Noname is offline
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This is great advice. Still leaves me with some questions though.

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Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
They should definitely start hanging out together if they don't know each other. that is where to start! I thought they knew each other too. Yup, would invite the ex over for a supper that you would make and allow them to talk and get to know each other while you treat them like the queens they are. Lavish some good hosting on them and make them feel comradeship with each other right away. Make it fun and light, where a cute apron, whatever you can think of to make it a fun evening of laughing and lightness.
If they knew each other I think this part would be easier, or I would have a better clue if it might work. I know they are going to have to be friends for this to work the way I hope it would.

I guess a better question is how to go about setting up a meeting between them. My GF is going to want to know why I am wanting the ex to come over, and the ex is going to want to know why I would want her to come over. I dont think I would have an issue keeping them both entertained and happy, just not sure how to make that first step.

As I have said I think they would get along fine. They both have the same occupation but in different places. Both like many similar activities. Both have similar "morals" (might be a poly hang up). Both are amazing in similar ways but each are very much their own person.

Quote:
My fear here is that GF will fall into the trap of motivational butt kicker for the two of you (ex and you).... not fair. I fall into that quite often. If and when this all works out, make sure that you keep your relationship with both separate as no metamour should be butt kicking a relationship that isn't hers... your relationship with the GF is a separate thing entirely from the friendship you have with the ex. Getting together and having a poly relationship, will not fix the relationship you had before, that didn't work out. You may all get along, but that is it. It's up to you and the ex to work out what happened that you all didn't work the first time round.
I can understand that and those are the kind of things I am trying to sort though. The more I read the more I learn, even if poly does not work I am learning. Each of them has things they are good at that and enjoy that the other does not. My GF hates shopping (not counting regular trips for food/house supplies) as much as I do so we dont get much done when we try. The ex loves to go to the mall and shop. Just one small example.

So the way I am thinking now is that by each having differences like that each person for lack of a better word has a "roll" in the relationship based on what they enjoy and are good at. That is how it usually works in a mono so I would assume it is the same in a poly.

Quote:
I'm also concerned that you are hesitating on the thought of either of them having other lovers. If you are finding your back is getting up over that one, then it might just well mean that ex stay a really good friend and not take it anywhere else... unless you can commit to the change that will occur, don't do it... your ladies have minds of their own and will not have your undivided attention all on them all of the time any more. They will want something more in some way to make up for that, and the first thing they will think about is finding other lovers. I can pretty much guarantee that they will have no problem once they get out there. Women generally don't, it's the guys that have a hard time finding another lover. It seems this is the very first step, as is the one noted above.
I know. I need to do more reading up on that part. More reading on why I would be uncomfortable with it. Finding out if I would ever be or could be either comfortable or even supportive of it. This is some more stuff I need to find out about me. If there are more ways to learn about this I am all ears.

So a few more thoughts on this one. After the first couple of years with the ex when I started cheating I had thought about "what if she is cheating on me". While it was not a good feeling it was not a bad one either. My thinking was that if it does not interfere with our relationship and it makes her happy, why not. I still didnt want to know about it though. Kind of an out of sight out of mind thing as in if I dont have to think about it then it would not bother me. I had a totally casual relationship with one girl on and off for several years and nothing about that bothered me. But with her it was a decent friendship with sex, not a lot of emotional connection. It still bothers me even today (have not had sex in over a year and no plans to any time soon) when she is checking out other guys and comments about it. We were out for a couple of hours this weekend just as friends and it is weird for me to hear that. So I need to look at myself more and read more about why I feel that way.

Last edited by Noname; 06-25-2010 at 11:51 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-26-2010, 12:50 AM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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Just tell them they're both important people in your life and you want them to meet each other! Just like if it was a member of your family or your best male buddy. You make it sound so sinister! There's nothing sinister about it! This is what people do!

You weren't raised Catholic by any chance, were you?
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  #20  
Old 06-26-2010, 01:02 AM
Noname Noname is offline
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Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
Just tell them they're both important people in your life and you want them to meet each other! Just like if it was a member of your family or your best male buddy. You make it sound so sinister! There's nothing sinister about it! This is what people do!

You weren't raised Catholic by any chance, were you?
Well that just seems way to simple It makes sense though, just not the way a lot of people think. I guess I feel that if I asked my GF to do that then she would think I was not over my ex (which is true) and put her in a weird spot. If I asked my ex to do that that I would be rubbing the new relationship in her face making her hurt more.

The key to that is in red. So this apparently is my issue, but there has to be some truth to it. Usually when a relationship is over it is over unless there is something like kids involved which there is not.

I was not raised under any religion. Just raised to be a good person, not to intentionally hurt people, be free and proud of who you are.
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