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  #21  
Old 06-10-2010, 12:51 AM
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redpepper redpepper is offline
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okay, three points and then a result at this point...

first off, she SLAPPED you?! k. that kicked it up a notch for me... way more work to do if you are going to stay... never ever ever okay,,,, ever!!!

second, her privacy has been abused? This is a public forum and we don't know your names. There has been no abuse of anything and really, the one who's privacy has been abused is the girl you like and you for her demanding that that letter was her right to see.

third, she has no right to say she is a guru on poly... she's got a lot of learning to do and just because we are "on-line" does not make us amateurs. Have you read anyone else's story on here? Has she?

thirdly,RUN! yup, I think for me this would be the time where I tell her exactly what I think of how she has behaved and say goodbye... be sure to let everyone know why and that you really hope she gets some help somehow as she has become very damaged and disillusioned about her role in the poly community.... she should come with a warning label it seems at this point. "control freak"

Oh ya, a letter? to tell you how your relationship could be fixed? Are you serious? Why are you not going with her on these trips to a therapist? If she is really serious, should you not be picking one together that you both feel comfortable with and going together?

this relationship you have is entirely built on her control and your lack of standing up for yourself... you were doing good too when you first started talking... then you let her anger take over and you turned into mush.
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  #22  
Old 06-10-2010, 05:29 AM
SeekerOfTruth SeekerOfTruth is offline
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Again, my thank to everyone for the help in this. I am honestly struggling to determine if I am in the wrong or right here, and your input has been extremely helpful. Apparently her visit to the counselors was not to seek advice about the situation of our relationship, but to find evidence for why she has not been emotionally abusing me.

This is the letter she sent me.

http://www.pastebin.org/322603

Last edited by SeekerOfTruth; 06-10-2010 at 05:41 AM.
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  #23  
Old 06-10-2010, 09:31 AM
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Breathesgirl Breathesgirl is offline
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That woman is seriously, serously in need of a good ole ass whoopin'!!!!!!!!!

I didn't read the whole thing. I lost patience with her after I read that she would be willing to contact persons a & b if YOU felt you needed a mediator! If I were to go that route I would personally opt for an impartial third party--someone who doesn't know either of you or the other parties who might be mentioned.

She can cite all she wants to BUT in the end it's how YOU feel you were treated that matters. Not her opinion, not her other lovers and not some professional.

Which brings me to--she went & spoke to other people about the situation yet chastised you for doing the same? Granted we are nameless, faceless people in this situation BUT as such we have no stake in the outcome.

A wee bit of a story so you can see where I'm coming from: Twenty odd years ago I met a boy whom I got to know and deeply loved. I thought he was the greatest thing (being a teen & in my early 20's this tends to happen). I did things with him that no one else had ever considered doing with me. He never hit me but he did control me in ways that were unhealthy. I didn't see my family very much, friends went by the wayside, I ended up living at a center for abused women and those who had no place ele to go (I had no place else to go since I didn't consider myself abused). My mind wasn't my own. It eventually turned out that he was mentally ill, it ran in the family, and ended up serving time three different times for sexual assault and forcible confinement. None of this was against me or I would have been the one serving the time & he'd be six feet under. Even now the details are fuzzy but I can honestly say that he was a control freak and loved nothing more than having me under his thumb and at his beck and call. We eventually married and stayed that way during his first jail term. He got out and things were going along great, or so I though, until he attacked one of my roommates with a steak knife & ran. That was the last straw. I divorced him and his controling ways. I went to councelling on my own and eventually became a mentally healthy woman again.

My second marriage was even worse with jealousy, mental and emotional abuse and one instance where he hit me. After ten years I couldn't take it any more and left. In good faith I even left our then 9 y/o sons with him because I could barely take care of me, let alone children.

I am happy to say that my kids are fine & I see them frequently and I am the happiest and healthiest I have felt and been in a very, very long time.

If you want more details feel free to PM me.

The point is that you can't always tell that YOU are the one being abused because you are too close to the situation. Those of us who are on the outside looking in can often see the situation for what it is because we aren't the ones wearing the rose colored glasses.

You obviously feel something isn't right with this relationsp & love not-with-standing you need to go over things point by point with yourself and see how these things made you feel. See how they made you feel as a whole. I'd be willing to bet that in the last year you have spent more time lost, confused and dreading what was coming next than you did happy and eager for the next good thing.

Your feelings are just as valid as hers are.

You may be young but in my opinion you have your shit more together than she does by about 1000%!

This is just a guess but you have spent a good deal of the past year confused by her behavior, haven't you? This is a very good sign that something isn't right with HER. It has nothing to do with you. Some people are very, very good at acting normal when the public is around just so they don't appear to be off their rocker. All bets are off when they are alone or in a one on one situation.

Please, for your own sanity and peace of mind, find yourself a poly friendly councellor and talk to them about these things and then RUN away from this woman as far and as fast as humanly possible! Sometimes we CAN love someone who isn't good for us. That doesn't mean we have to have a relationship with them. It means we acknowledge that love and move on with our lives. Good luck and please keep us up to date.
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  #24  
Old 06-10-2010, 10:32 AM
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phoenix762 phoenix762 is offline
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My brain hurts....just...way too much going on here...
But-from what I can gather, I was feeling the same way the others are, this is an awfully one-sided relationship, far as my eye can see, polyamorus or not.

Wow. I do hope things work out for the best. I'd say ditch the first girl and go with girl b, but I am pretty much clueless about this poly thing, just a member here out of curiousity.
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  #25  
Old 06-10-2010, 02:19 PM
DharmaBum23 DharmaBum23 is offline
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Default Ok. Here's my thoughts.

In a nutshell, they haven't changed.

Leave.

*****
The expanded "remix":

Your love for her is hurting you AND is hurting her. Even if you are 100% wrong, the fact that your reality and her reality can differ that much means that you will NEVER be able to mesh without anything less than a profound breaking and remolding of your mind or hers which I can tell you from personal experience is just as fun as it sounds.

I do not know if you are right or if she is right. It does not matter who is right. Either scenario ends exactly the same way. You need to find a qualified mental health professional, hopefully one that knows about poly and get help. Tell them honestly what you are feeling. See the professional WITHOUT your SO there and maybe later you will have a joint session if you haven't broken up with her.

If you do not do this there is a very good chance she will continue to hurt you and you will continue to hurt her(and make no mistake, you are hurting her).
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  #26  
Old 06-10-2010, 06:18 PM
hiroe hiroe is offline
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Default Would you like some hot apple NO.

As i said elsewhere to someone after reading all this:
My first gf could have been a carbon copy of this girl. I eventually got my head screwed on properly and kicked her to the curb, only to have her contact me years later looking to become friends again after an experience beating cancer. Her claim was that she had learned what the important things were in life (and that i was The One That Got away); but the truth was that she had just learned how much more she could manipulate people, without the bother of even having to use sex to get her way.

Toxic people rarely outgrow their toxicity. You need to tell this girl that she's damaged goods, and find someone who understands that relationships are a two-way street. She's controlling you, and it's clear that she's decided that for you to have the 'privilege' of being involved with her, that you MUST follow every rule she makes up. The point of you having a two-year period is nothing more than a manipulative control test. When she sees that you'll follow her rules willingly, don't be surprised when at the end of that two years she decides you're still not allowed to have others, based on her insistence of "You just don't know how to be poly."

some thoughts:

*She's using your lack of experience as a weapon against you. Rather than giving you the freedom and respect to actually learn these things through trial and error, she expects that the knowledge will somehow pop into your head via osmosis. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Further, this lack of knowledge and experience is being taken as a deliberate intent to "violate the boundaries" of your relationship with her.

*Not only has she not given you any input or dialogue on where those boundaries are; she's been actively moving them on you specifically to allow her to interpret your actions as having violated them. Her telling you that Making-out was allowed (then accusing you of cheating) is another test to show how devoted you are to her. It's designed to determine how much spine/willpower you have, and how you handle her decision that you've "wronged" her. In order to "Pass" the test, you'll have to submit your will completely, and accept her word as Truth. Those "two years" will turn into seven, or 20, of "Making it work" with her. In fact, i'm really starting to doubt if "Girl B" is really into you at all; she may well be an active participant in the test. Should you choose to dump the g/f and pursue B, watch out for this. It could easily be a routine that the two of them worked out together to help fill their lives with boys they can control.

*Giving you cited proofs in her letter that her actions do not constitute abuse is nothing but a diversionary tactic. Abuse is not defined by hard-and-fast parameters. Manipulative behavior is definitely abuse, regardless of how much she might try to argue against it. You have a right to your feelings and reactions; and nothing she can say or point at can make them "wrong" or "Incorrect".

*Something i decided years ago: I'd rather be happy than right. If taking ownership of my wrongdoing returns us to peace sooner, so be it. However, that does *NOT* include taking ownership of wrongs i have not committed. Doing so is as dishonest as lying. If a situation is misrepresented and blame is accepted accordingly, neither party can actually learn from the outcome, because the lessons as understood are incorrect.

*She seems to have taken the other road, where her happiness is specifically predicated on "Being Right". It really seems as though she's chosen her own need to "Be Right" (and therefore "Happy") over your own happiness. She's asking you to accept that as well.

*looking at how much effort she's putting into this (to be "Right" while still "making it work") is a big red-flag of how desperate she is to maintain control of you. Love is supposed to be about joy, forgiveness, and understanding. Not rules, blame, accusations, and "cited proof of non-abuse".

*Does she make you happy? All other points aside, this is one of the most important. If you really truly feel all the positives outweigh the negatives, i doubt you'd be posting here for advice. Follow your initial instincts.
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  #27  
Old 06-10-2010, 07:41 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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I probably should not have said most of that, but reading all this made me so pissed.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 06-10-2010 at 09:52 PM.
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  #28  
Old 06-11-2010, 03:43 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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I fully agree with just about everyone that this chick is a major head case.

I love how in her letter, she says that her counsellors, friends, family, all agree that what she was not abusive. After only getting her side of the story.

That whole bit about "abusers never apologize" is pure and utter bullshit. Abusers apologize all the time. It's a major component of the abuse cycle. It's how they regain your trust so they can wind up and hit you again.

Speaking of which, she PHYSICALLY HIT YOU! I don't care what she says, no verbal or emotional behaviour ever EVER EVER merits physical violence in retaliation. EVER!

"Go make out with that chick" <you make out with that chick, as per her command> "Hey, you made out with that chick! That's cheating!" Uhmmm.... really? You actually fell for that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Psycho Chick
But informing individuals, such as your disapproving family, who have the ability to verbally chastize, alarm or contact my personal networks, workplaces and family, have access to my personal belongings as I stay there, or any other type of negative response is very dangerous for previously listed reasons, disrespectful of me, and a violation of my basic rights to privacy.

Let it once more be said that I will never attempt to prevent you from talking about your feelings to your family.
translation: "You are not allowed to talk to your family about me. But I will not attempt to prevent you from talking to your family about me."

[sarcasm]No, no that's not a mixed message at all.[/sarcasm]

Look, if she loves you and trusts you, then she should trust that your family is only trying to help you. I'm sure they have much better things to do than spread gossip about her. Does she really think she's such the center of the universe that all your family wants to do is talk about her and tell all their friends and go through her stuff? Puh-leaze!

Ugh. Just drop her sorry ass. This is SO FAR BEYOND "working on the relationship" because the problem is not confined to your relationship, the problem is herself and she has to work on that on her own. Let her three other boyfriends and two lovers deal with her shit. Go find yourself a girl with some sense.

You say your family and you are moving away? I say, good. Clean start. New friends with no previous history and issues.

And next time your gut gives you a feeling that this is wrong, believe your gut. It's an instinct that has taken hundreds of thousands of years to develop, and it's very reliable, and it's there for a reason. When your gut says run -- RUN! Otherwise, you'll be eaten by these sabre tooth tigers again and again.
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  #29  
Old 06-11-2010, 03:45 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
I probably should not have said most of that, but reading all this made me so pissed.
Damn, now I wish I'd quoted it for posterity. I completely agreed with you. It may have been harsh, but for once your harshness was appropriate!
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  #30  
Old 06-11-2010, 04:02 AM
jkelly jkelly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
first off, she SLAPPED you?! k. that kicked it up a notch for me... way more work to do if you are going to stay... never ever ever okay,,,, ever!!!
I was kind of wondering why so many people's responses seemed to assume that the relationship was worth further work. If everyone missed the fact that she was hitting the OP, that makes it somewhat easier to understand.
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